• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Opening Hours cut

I've thought for ages that the best way for AT to grow the hotel side of their operations is to offer far too much to be done in one day. As it stands, that's just what they're doing, but this isn't exactly what I had in mind :(
 
Extended hotel stays can't be the reason, they don't have the capacity in the hotels to make such a drastic change viable.
 
The opening hours in comparison to other UK parks are somewhat embarrassing, especially when you see the West Midlands Safari Park is open so late. It does show what a dire state Merlin/Towers are in at the moment compared to other places. This year has made me realise that Merlin have no idea how to operate theme parks and it is very concerning for us enthusiasts. The cuts are bad, but personally I am more concerned and frustrated about the scenario Merlin have got themselves into, there is no way that they should be in this position, even if guest numbers are down this year. They should be big enough to cope with a year or two of lower guest numbers. If it happens in the long run despite good investment there fair enough, things may take a turn for the worst and cuts would be needed, but for this to all happen so quickly raises a lot of questions about how Merlin choose to operate.

:)
 
The Thorpe situation is strange. After all, it's not like the park hasn't tried with The Swarm. Were it not for the fact that it's all a bit obvious (and therefore too simple), I'd put it down to the poor weather, the public's (understandable) perception that it's an expensive day out, the country's current financial mess and the dark cloud that is the Olympics causing a subconscious 'avoid the area inside the M25 at all costs this year' mentality.

Like those that have gone before them this season, these changes are absolutely shameful and will really take the shine off guests' days out. I'm not the kind of enthusiast that goes hunting for financial information, but if the park's been given a budget so tight that they have to make cuts somewhere it's hard to imagine that a company the size of Merlin genuinely can't afford to give them as much money as they need to operate properly.

I can't help but feel that anybody involved in the operation of one or more theme parks should be in the business to provide guests with amazing experiences rather than to make piles of cash, and that anybody firmly rooted in the later camp ought to seek employment in a different industry. That isn't to say that theme parks should for example hire passionate management irrespective of their business ability. After all, the park needs to stay in business and turn a respectable profit to fund development! Nevertheless, I firmly believe that parks really suffer when profit is placed first. It's not like there isn't money to be made by taking the opposite approach if you do it sensibly; in fact I'd argue that parks that really know how to keep their guests happy, give them what they want and make them want to return over and over again are capable of seeing much bigger profits even though they might have higher costs.

The above should be blindingly obvious, and surely is to everybody here. Why then did Merlin buy the parks when it's clear that their values aren't in line with that? Sell up now to an owner that'll run the parks to their full potential and give us and the public some real "Fantastical Escapism".
 
Benzin said:
DiogoJ42 said:
I can remember when Chessie used to be open till 9pm in the summer. Then Merlin came along......

The hell? When was this, because the park was definitely not open that late in the last decade, if you wanna blame Merlin for stuff, blame them on the stuff that is ACTUALLY their fault?

It would have been the mid-late 90's. Ok, so admittedly, it ended long before M£rlin came along, but still...
 
DiogoJ42 said:
It would have been the mid-late 90's. Ok, so admittedly, it ended long before M£rlin came along, but still...

That was about the same time the Charterhouse Group bought Tussauds wasn't it?

These venture capitalist firms really are bad news.

???
 
I can see a rise in hotel bookings in the near future.

The following is my own personal opinion, many will not agree:

I imagine that Alton Towers has far greater upkeep costs than the rest of the Merlin parks. (Gardens etc) Due to this I imagine that it is hit a great deal harder than any other park in the Merlin chain when income is reduced. I imagine that in these tough economic times Alton Towers is a potential loss-making venture ( although I doubt it, I imagine the real reason is a dramatic loss in profit) for Merlin, hence all the money saving attempts.

The figures I have found are from a quick Google search (I have no idea whether they are reliable or not) and are a bit dated. 2010 I believe. Source: http://www.worksmart.org.uk

They show that Thorpe Park made a profit of £7,046,000.00 from a annual turnover of £48,020,000.00. Alton Towers on the other hand made a, much lower, profit of £526,000.00 despite having a far greater turnover of £82,375,000.00. Now I do appreciate that the costs of Thirteens construction will have had an impact and that the figures are rather dated. (As a side note to that, I feel that Thorpe Parks recent issues have been wildly over-exaggerated on this forum. Every time I've been recently the place has been heaving, with 2hr+ queues.)

The above figures would seem to back up my claim that Alton is a greater financial issue for Merlin than others (in this case Thorpe) and as a result, needs to be carefully controlled from a financial standpoint, more so that the others. Hence the earlier closing time. I can't really comment on the parks in Continental Europe other than that perhaps they provide such a great financial return that Merlin cannot justify cutting their opening times in order to subsidise Alton. That and the fact that they are in a more competitive environment thanks to the Merlin monopoly in the UK.

I imagine this will be a permanent cut. It is actually reasonably clever, as very few people know the parks opening hours well enough to be able to compare them year on year and even fewer will have noticed the fact that they have been cut mid-season. As a result, they will not provoke as much customer dissatisfaction as a major ride opening late, for example.
 
CoasterCrazyChris said:
Normally I would agree with this, but the case of Thorpe Park this season after installing The Swarm makes me doubt whether this is always the case.
:)

Luckily The Swarm has a 20 year plus shelf life and will easily recoup its costs. They aren't supposed to be quick shots of money, they are supposed to bring in the money and the punters years down the line, just like Oblivion and Nemesis still do.

As for Alton Towers hours, have't they always been a bit over the place with their opening hours. I remember visiting in 2000 during the peak of the summer holidays and the park definitly closed at 5pm.
 
It just smacks that all these changes are being made by somebody with a spreadsheet in Azerbaijan, not somebody involved with the day to day running of the park. They've made two similar changes and been forced to reverse them - what makes them think this will be any different?
 
I think this is where the fault lies. Look at the attractions Tussauds used to invest in pre 2004. They were all expensive high quality projects which are built to last. Then, ignoring Swarm what have Merlin done?

An Intamin coaster - Respectable manufacture, but how long will the drop last?
Two Gerstlaurers - It's alright saying that a cheaper ride will give them more money for theming, but what's the point of having nice theming if the ride isn't going to last long enough to get the most from it?

I was thinking last night, and look at how the park expenses seemed to run in the past:

1992 - Two large scale attractions, a ride retheme, and two whole new areas - For the park at the time, high investment year.
1993 - Nothing huge, just some smaller bits here and there - Low investment year.
1994 - Nemesis, creation of Forbidden Valley - Very high investment for the park at the time.
1995 - Again, nothing major, but can you blame them after Nemmy? - Low investment.
1996 - Alton Towers Hotel, and Storybook Land- A big project for the park to take on at the time - High investment.
1997 - Ripsaw, and some little bits - Low/Mid
1998 - Oblivion, creation of X-Sector in current form, relocation of Enterprise and Energiser - Very high investment.
1999 - UG Land retheme - Low/Mid
2000 - Hex - Probably better to call this mid, given all the work that was done to the Towers.
2001 - Relocation and retheme of Energiser, and Submission installed - Low/Mid
2002 - Air, and Space Adventures - Again, as with other SWs a big year with very high investment.
2003 - Splash Landings Hotel, and Duel retheme - Big project in terms of the hotel, but low for themepark.
2004 - Spinball - Meant to be a low year apparently due to Tussauds financial issues.
2005 - Rita - Again, should probably have been low or mid thanks to the money situation.

So yeah, even when in real financial trouble the park was still able to get two decent sized coasters out of it. If they had just themed them both well to fit their areas I don't think anyone would have blinked an eye.

Now look at a Merlin low year. What have we had? Well nothing really! At least Tussauds made a half hearted effort. Even a Merlin mid year doesn't look quite as amazing in comparison. If we want to argue 1992 was mid investment then one brand new family coaster, two area rethemes/development, and a bespoke well themed dark ride is a bit more impressive than a cheap 4D cinema, and a dark ride which has had considerable work to make it right. I don't think S-T and Haunted House would really compare on theming at opening :p

Merlin had a couple of really good years at first, but after that it's gone very quickly downhill ??? I think Blackstone is the root of the problem. I reckon they are tightening their belts and are wanting to float Merlin when the time comes. This is causing Merlin to put pressure on the attractions, and make cuts, as they will want as little debt as possible when they do float, in order to make them look better to prospective investors. Unfortunately, as they hold the monopoly in the UK they don't really have much in terms of competition to outshine, so they are doing the minimum they can. Whereas on the continent they have all the other parks they have to live up to if they want to retain their status.

That is not the way to run a worldwide company. Every attraction of it's scale should receive an equal investment, with which they should do what they feel is needed.
 
Minimum investments for short term gain - its how Merlin works and it's clearly not a viable way to run theme parks. However, they're stuck in a rut and can't run in any other way now they are preparing to float :(
 
You could argue Tussauds had to turn what was a large scale funfair into a theme park and investing into lots of areas, all at once, was the only way to do it. Certainly in the 90's, money was being thrown around everywhere to get Alton into a place it deserves to be in.

Merlin for all intents and purposes own a theme park and have chosen the invest little route whilst charging for everything they can. Eventually they will become unstuck.
 
okay so... all these budget cuts and time cutbacks... yet there willing to give out £1000 a day for an entire week, forgive me if im wrong but that could be better spent on the running of the part????

they just get worse.
 
Brett said:
okay so... all these budget cuts and time cutbacks... yet there willing to give out £1000 a day for an entire week, forgive me if im wrong but that could be better spent on the running of the part????

they just get worse.
The £1000 a day campaign is ran by the marketing team. An entirely different budget to the other departments around the resort.

Even with that, the marketing teams budget is unlikely to get as damaged due to it's importance. They need a lot of marketing right now to ensure guest figures stay at a satisfactory level.
 
I can't remember whether I'm opposed or in favour of this cut, there's been so many this year! I'd of thought staying open for longer would have meant more customers in the park spending, maybe that's what Merlin need to look at, why people aren't spending as much on food and drink for staying open to be profitable.
 
To follow on from James' marketing point:

Things that are generally awesome can pretty much market themselves with fairly little marketing investment.

Things that are not very good/overhyped/don't meet expectations require far more marketing and thus far more money to be spent on them. See: Thirteen; the first incarnation of Sub Terra; currently the entire park.

The most ridiculous thing about this is that the marketing budget runs into the millions. I'd hazard a (wildly speculative) guess that SW7's budget could well be a quarter of the (alleged) £20million. But for any investment the park makes, if they invested an adequate sum of money in the first place, and an adequate sum of money making sure things ran as they should (including maintenance, aesthetics and opening times), then they would need to spend far less on marketing as the product would be delivering and thus would have a good reputation.

Not only that, the intensive marketing for a single overhyped product is such a short term strategy. Market a fantastic overall package that meets all expectations and you end up with repeat visitors. This requires less money but creates more.
 
Agreed that there needs to be long term plans involving marketing but any form of national marketing is incredibly expensive to run. Things like the instant escape week are incredibly cheap (£7,000 total cost) and run virally through social media and news stories. However, running a major national television campaign across multiple channels at peak times cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, if not millions!

Whilst a quality product will keep bringing people back to the park and may require lower levels of advertisement, the fact that Towers need to advertise on a large-scale national basis in order to get people talking about their new attractions will always force them to need a very large marketing budget.

I am also led to believe that the marketing budget is separate from the operations budget (where these cuts are from) and both of these are separate from the investment budget (for rides and attractions).
 
This definitely isn't a good move at all.

I've been on Resort for the past week or so, and it's disappointing having to leave at 5PM, when the weather is as glorious as it is.
My disappointment is also matched by the GP, as comments can be heard with regards to the short day you get for your hard earned cash.

I'd much prefer to be able to get more out of my day when the weather is superb, rather than leave really early!
 
T said:
This definitely isn't a good move at all.

I've been on Resort for the past week or so, and it's disappointing having to leave at 5PM, when the weather is as glorious as it is.
My disappointment is also matched by the GP, as comments can be heard with regards to the short day you get for your hard earned cash.

I'd much prefer to be able to get more out of my day when the weather is superb, rather than leave really early!

You're being very kind to the great British summer weather there! For the majority of days in the last couple of weeks the weather has been awfully miserable!! :p

Apart from that though, I agree with your post! When there is nice summer weather people don't want to be leaving at 5pm, they want to stay later and enjoy a nice long day in the sun.

:)
 
Rob said:
Apart from that though, I agree with your post! When there is nice summer weather people don't want to be leaving at 5pm, they want to stay later and enjoy a nice long day in the sun.

:)

Today has been a blissful day. I didn't want to leave at 5, as many other guests didn't either!

Rita had a FIVE minute queue at 4:30pm - I've never seen it so short!
 
Top