OTT Swearing Censorship in the Shoutbox?

[Dave]

I personally have no issue with swearing generally (though it looks a little silly when people punctuate every sentence with swear words). I know for a fact the whole team pretty much is the same and meets in general are hardly saintly and meets in Germany are R-rated.

But we have to consider the wider audience so the front page stuff and the public forums need to be clean.

 

[TheMan]

Swearing is different to using hate speech.

As Ashlee finely demonstrates, hate speech can be used without using "swear" words and often is.

Swear words have no intrinsic power. They're as offensive as we choose them to be. Personally, I don't understand how the f-word is any 'worse' than sex, shag, intercourse, or any other non-taboo synonym, apart from culture deciding it to be.

I couldn't disagree more! No really I couldn't. I tried, and the harder I tried to disagree more, I found it was impossible.

So I gave up, and I agree as Blaze/Ashlee are absolutely right. This is true of most things, certain sounds have particular connotations and appear to physically affect us, but in general, a word is a series of squiggles or blend of compression/rarefaction of the air, until we define what that means, by way of our life experience filters, based on experiences and expectations.

Though I agree about not offending everyone etc, the power of swearing exists purely in it's interpretation.

Much like beauty is in the eyes of a beholder, thus so offense is often in the ears.

 

[James]

The points on both sides are fair enough. However TowersStreet has to cater for all types of people and with there being no swearing on the forums I agree entirely with the team taking this decision. As I mentioned on the previous page, we can easily talk without swearing, so personally I don't see the need why we should be allowed to swear all over the site. Most people don't swear in front of children, in front of their parents, in front of those who take offence - so in other walks of live surly the same can easily be applied, by using different words that can still bring across the same point.

I've often browsed forums where people can swear and I've found on those forums people swear for the sake of it. It kind of results in very dim-witted topics that lack any substance. At least without swearing posts can have a little more meaning. I just find with so much freedom it leads to people just doing it because, well, because they can.

The Tavern is still there as a forum to let loose and swear as much as you like anyway.

Plus if anyone didn't know swearing tends to be fine in chat too! It's a little more relaxed in there.

 

[Craig]

The points on both sides are fair enough. However TowersStreet has to cater for all types of people and with there being no swearing on the forums I agree entirely with the team taking this decision.

So you should considering you co-authored said member expectations

 

[Fredward]

Adding to the comment of "they are just words" why do you need to use them so bay over others?

I don't understand the stigma of swear words, but other people do get bothered. You don't have to use them, so instead of being ignorant to the people who do get bothered, why not just not use swear words in open areas.

taverns ok, they enter signing a disclaimer and know what they are in for!

 

[IanB]

So your happy for Racist, Homophobic and other discriminatory and offensive words to be used freely in the forum because they are just words?

Swearing is different to using hate speech.

I agree that hate speech is a lot worse, and I am not trying to defend it, but you can not use the argument that swearing is okay, just because its words, and then say hate speech is not okay.

As for there been no power behind the words, if that was the case, people would not use them at all. Swear words are some of the most powerful words in the English language.

I think the team do a good job and on the forum, there is a good balance. The forum and its content on the rest of the site is swear free, and there is a 18s only section, which I am sure is freely visited by under 18s, which within reason, anything is allowed.

Ian

 

[Rose Of Dawn]

So your happy for Racist, Homophobic and other discriminatory and offensive words to be used freely in the forum because they are just words?

Swearing is different to using hate speech.

I agree that hate speech is a lot worse, and I am not trying to defend it, but you can not use the argument that swearing is okay, just because its words, and then say hate speech is not okay.

It's the meaning behind different words that is the issue. Swear words are just inappropriate depending on the situation. Hate words have their origin in oppression, or have now taken a new meaning as an oppressive term.

For example, 'tranny' is a word that is used to demean and belittle trans people. That's its whole purpose - you never hear it in any other context. And whilst 'faggot' has had numerous definitions in the past, it's main usage in modern times is to attack LGBT people, and gay men in particular.

Compare that with the usual swear words - they have meanings, but we don't use them in certain situations because they are deemed 'crude'. Naturally, there are some swear words that can arguably cross over into the hate speech category and vice versa, but for the most part the offence taken by a swear word (like saying '****' in public) is very different to using hate speech like the 'N' word.

 

[TheMan]

This has become more a conversation about what a swear word means.

Ashlee is spot on. A swear word, on the whole anyway, is used to accentuate meaning - to give it a "boost" if you like.

And other swears that direct at people are generic in terms, you f'in so-and-so and what not.

Hate words though are totally separate. Ashlee again provides good examples. A swear, the majority of time, is to increase the sentiment behind a phrase and/or feeling.

Take my feelings about David Cameron, I think he is a f'ing w****r - generic terms for a person I am not very fond of. However (forgive me for this Ashlee, I don't mean this of course!) calling Ashlee a f'in tranny is using a swear to accentuate something very personal that I do not like about her, and is using a swear to add depth of feeling to a form of prejudice - but taken on it's own, obviously the prejudice is the hate, the f is the passion and depth of feeling.

Of course I really think Ashlee is f'ing brave, open, and has been very friendly and welcoming to me - although only speaking in a forum, she seems a f'in top gal to me!! Yet again, I use it to enhance a point of view, this time positive (and the one I actually mean this time lol!).

I don't think it can be argued that swears are hate language, though my black mates used to call me the N word as a greeting, meaning I was just about as accepted as I could get in the group, I never ever used it in return (though I did always respond "mate, you need to go to specsavers"), as you understand the connotations of a word/meaning - it is a cultural definition, and even in that context, how it is said, and who by, gave the word that meaning.

People who are offended by swearing, are usually offended by the definition of it as a "curse", not as hate language. I respect those ultimately who don't like swearing, and as others mentioned, when out and about I think more manners can be shown by some public - and I most certainly cannot stand hearing it used around or by very young children!

It is an interesting discussion on hate speech, but let's not make more of it than it is. Swearing, is cursing, and a entirely different matter to hate speech.

 

[Tom]

You can't argue against this if you agree with the normal forum rules on language. There really is NO way you can with any conviction whatsoever. There is no difference in the reasons behind both.


-Sent from a mobile phone-

 

[TheMan]

You can't argue against this if you agree with the normal forum rules on language. There really is NO way you can with any conviction whatsoever. There is no difference in the reasons behind both.


-Sent from a mobile phone-

Against what Tom? I agree with what I think are sensible rules in the Shoutbox, but completely can understand the other side of this debate too. (I know some people here struggle to grasp the concept, that I can hold one viewpoint, whilst understanding and respecting another...). I just think the debate has moved more into distinguishing the difference between hate or prejudicial language/concepts, and that of simply cursing - and how relevant that is, to be prevented in today's context.

After all, when considered like that, is swearing really all that? It certainly made me consider it more thoughtfully even though I understand and agree with the teams stance on it.

 

[Ben]

Easiest way to deal with this, get rid of the shout box.

*gets the matches ready*

 

[MattyH]

Easiest way to deal with this, get rid of the shout box.

*gets the matches ready*

Shoutbox is great though.

 

[TheMan]

Easiest way to deal with this, get rid of the shout box.

*gets the matches ready*

The last time we had a conversation like this, I ended up with a dedicated thread ;D