Park Hours: Updates and Discussion

[Matt.GC]

You won’t get an investor led financial bailout beyond that which Kirkby are planning.

Completely agree with you here, and I haven't/wouldn't suggest otherwise. This is as good as it gets.

Plus you are making demands on a management team who all started a year ago.

And again you are comparing completely different scenarios when comparing 1994 with 2024.

As already mentioned many times the food situation was locked in by Varney 2 years ago, the high ropes where always a stupid idea as there was no multi-day strategy to compete with the likes of centreparcs. For that they needed to make the resort truly multifaceted but old Merlin thought sticking a crazy golf and high ropes course onto basic rooms designed for single night stays at a theme park would achieve miracles.

The main product has been massively downgraded but this was all by the previous management of Merlin, not the current. You need to watch and wait to see what they are doing as 2025 is the first season where their decision making is the only influence on the company.

I’m genuinely not saying it will be any better, I have no idea, I’m just saying your solution is the equivalent of a patient giving up on the antibiotics after day 1 rather than seeing if the whole course will fix things.

Oh come now. We both know that it doesn't work like that. Capitalism doesn't wait out of politeness.

Whatever next? This time next year shall we wait until 2026, 2027, 2028 maybe? Covid? The Ukraine war? Leaves on the line? The wrong kind of snow? Dog ate their homework? Drove to Barnard Castle for an eye test? The weather is even being discussed, as if the weather wasn't also crap last summer! The excuses keep on coming for the lack of progress.

They've owned this park since 2019. Let's not pretend that they didn't already have a significant financial stake, and therefore full knowledge of how the business operated, and the state Towers was in, beforehand. Or that they couldn't have golden handshaked/brown enveloped Varney whenever they wanted. It's clear 5 years on that this is a salvage job, and not a rebuild. Possibly even a sell-up job long term. Who knows? But a slightly less crappy park than it's been in the last 8 years + is probably the best we can hope for now. And I'm sure Thoosies will be grateful for that.

 

[flyingguitar]

In both cases, better initial assessments of work required should have been done at the outset...there should be no "forecast".
Not the new managements problem, but questionable running overall.
Either sloppy management, or deliberate tardy timing of repairs to save on running costs.

or problems came up, it happens all the time causing delays, especially when repairing things and working with things that have been outside for most of their life is very unpredictable especially when the team doing the work don't do it that often, for instance I was working on something that was outside and the job should have taken 10-15 mins (just using a philips head on a drill to undo about 20 screws and remove the part) but it took a good day because all of the bolts were stuck and required drilling, then the parts were stuck together requiring heavy use of wd40 and a hammer, I don't think anyone could have predicted as the bolts looked fine, but were ceased in place and the parts looked fine but had stuck together.

 

[venny]

Europa Park managed to demolish, design and rebuild two rides and an entire area in less than 12 months, but Merlin can’t fix a madhouse in nearly twice the amount of time. If Merlin really wanted to get Hex reopened urgently, then it would have happened.

If people want to continue to grasp at straws to excuse a major ride being closed for more time than it’s been open over the last five years, then there’s never going to be any real impetus for Merlin to get their act together.

 

[Rob F]

Scorpion express also says hello

 

[ringo]

The product is stale, hence reducing hours and releasing of 27,000 discounted tickets.

Whilst current management might be giving off VIBES of caring about the experience etc they also run the risk of being too aligned to vloggers which often means the bigger picture of what matters to general public gets ignored.

 

[Tom]

Varney left nearly two years ago. We don’t know exactly how the Aramark deal works, but there is no way that the rapid price rises since Varney left do not benefit Merlin’s coffers.

 

[Alastair]

We're veering somewhat away from the subject of Alton Towers park hours here. Please use other topics (i.e. General Discussion) for general Merlin/Towers/decline chat! Thanks.

 

[Bowser]

The cynic in me thinks the poor opening hours may also be a push to get people into the hotels if they’re struggling on that front as people here have suggested.

Realistically with the current ops and availability it’s rather difficult for the casual visitor to get on all the attractions in a single day.

Seems crazy to look at many other major (non Merlin) parks and see summer opening hours of 9pm and beyond but perhaps it’s more of a cultural thing in the UK? Historically I can only think of the seaside pay-per-ride parks that open later (for obvious reasons).

 

[jon81uk]

The cynic in me thinks the poor opening hours may also be a push to get people into the hotels if they’re struggling on that front as people here have suggested.

Realistically with the current ops and availability it’s rather difficult for the casual visitor to get on all the attractions in a single day.

Seems crazy to look at many other major (non Merlin) parks and see summer opening hours of 9pm and beyond but perhaps it’s more of a cultural thing in the UK? Historically I can only think of the seaside pay-per-ride parks that open later (for obvious reasons).

I think late closing actually drives more hotel stays as long as there is a reason to stay in the park late such as additional entertainment or night rides. If the park closes at 5pm then people may decide to do a second day, but you have plenty of time to drive and stay off-site if needed. Whereas staying in the park later makes walking back to a hotel room a lot more valuable.

 

[venny]

There’s nothing to make you want to stay later, in contrast to some European parks. There’s very little variety of attractions, meaning people end up waiting in one queue after another. There are no shows to be seen outside CBeebies to split up a day. A poor and expensive F&B offering which leans heavily on uninspiring fast food. Little in the way of other diversions.

If people can’t split up a day and end up traipsing from one queue to the next, that inevitably makes a day tedious and exhausting. Combine that with the total lack of food options making people linger at the end of the day and of course there’s very little appetite to stay longer.

Why would any family stop on Towers Street at the end of the day to spend £10 on a poor quality hot dog, that’s eaten from the wrapper, with no seating. It’s less to do with culture and more to do with the available offering (or lack thereof).

If you’ve ever been in Velvet Coaster after Pleasure Beach chucks out you’ll see there’s plenty of demand for families wanting to stay and eat.

 

[GaryH]

If they cut the park opening times to encourage hotel stays then I don't think its working - there just isn't enough going on to encourage people to do this. Its not like hotel guests can leave the park and go in the waterpark afterwards now is it! As for late night opening, similar thing, in the past you would go to the hotel to see the Halloween show done by the band and singers, and stay up late having a few spooky cocktails. None of that now and you have to be tucked up in bed by 11pm as the bars close. Doesn't really feel like a "resort" at the moment.

 

[Bowser]

I guess I was thinking more of casual visitors (ie maximum once a year) who travel 2+ hours.

Can a family realistically get on say Nemesis, Smiler, Oblivion, Wickerman, Galactica, Thirteen, Rita, The Curse, RMT, Congo and Sub Terra on a peak day between 10-5 without fast-track?

Perhaps with the focus on MAP casual visitors are a vanishing demographic but I imagined infrequent visitors would like to experience as many attractions as possible on a visit. People tend to go to Disney etc for multiple days as it’s the only way to experience everything and AT seems like the most challenging UK park to do in a day. I know trips we’ve had where we’ve only got on 4 rides.

Even if they’re not pushing directly to their own hotel they could be encouraging multi-day trips?

 

[GaryH]

I don't see why they wouldn't be pushing the on site accommodation given the money spinner it is, but I think given how much it costs, and people checking reviews online, people are just not booking it as much as previous years. We are going shortly, staying in a local B&B, which is £250 for two nights with a decent good quality breakfast and room.

I did look at the hotels, but it was around £500, with poor cheap breakfast. When you question what you actually get for the privilege of staying on site now (compared to the past) its practically nothing, except less money in your pocket, and especially with the poor evening meal offerings. I dont think being able to use the entrance by Galactica is a big enough incentive to use the hotels. We will get a takeaway delivered or go to a local pub. We can still pop into the hotels to watch the entertainment, or have a drink, use the arcades, go in the waterpark etc so I don't see the point of paying twice the price just to stay onsite anymore.

It used to be really magical staying on site, I honestly wish it still was.

 

[flyingguitar]

If they cut the park opening times to encourage hotel stays then I don't think its working

surely a later opening would encourage a hotel stay, i mean if you have to drive 2 hours, starting your journey back home at 4 vs 6 would has a large differnce on how tired you will be, if you consider that it would make sense to book a hotel if it was open later. I am curious about the impact if they were to trial a 8pm close during summer, currently on most sundays the park empties out arround 4 but i also wonder if it was open later if people would stay and more eat food in the park (if you are staying later it would give more time to sit down and eat a meal, and people would be getting hungry) it was the reason disney had free fastpasses to encourage people to stay and spend money on food and drinks

 

[Ash]

Shortening opening hours is moronic.

Do they really think people forced to leave at 4/5 are a) likely to come back? b) more likely to book a hotel over someone on park until 7-8?

It’s insanity in the extreme.

Annual passes need to be double the cost they are now or scrap them entirely, for the good of the parks but they’re addicted to a business model that doesn’t work in the long term.

They’ve devalued their own product so much they have nowhere to go. 2 4 1s, annual pass sales, discounted tickets, kids go free. It’s short term crap and they’re running out of road.

What message does it send to customers? Our product isn’t worth what we think it’s worth, so it shouldn’t be to you. At the same time reducing quality and putting up prices.

Good luck to them

Bring on universal

 

[jon81uk]

surely a later opening would encourage a hotel stay, i mean if you have to drive 2 hours, starting your journey back home at 4 vs 6 would has a large differnce on how tired you will be, if you consider that it would make sense to book a hotel if it was open later. I am curious about the impact if they were to trial a 8pm close during summer, currently on most sundays the park empties out arround 4 but i also wonder if it was open later if people would stay and more eat food in the park (if you are staying later it would give more time to sit down and eat a meal, and people would be getting hungry) it was the reason disney had free fastpasses to encourage people to stay and spend money on food and drinks

Although later closing does encourage people to stay over, they need an incentive to stay late. AT has tried later summer hours before and they are rarely busy after 6pm, because there is no rides in the dark or similar reason like there is for Scarefest.

 

[GaryH]

Bring on universal

This is the key. Merlin apart from one or two parks have the monopoly so they don’t really care. Once another resort park opens with decent offerings and guests start going there instead of Merlin parks then they make take notice.

 

[Kraken27]

Although later closing does encourage people to stay over, they need an incentive to stay late. AT has tried later summer hours before and they are rarely busy after 6pm, because there is no rides in the dark or similar reason like there is for Scarefest.

Back in the early 2000’s, for a couple of years, Alton had 7pm closing time for pretty much all of August. There was a “Team Extreme” (Royal Marines display team) show on the lake by the main lawns. It flopped. Come 6pm even on good weather days the park was empty & everything was walk-on with the same handful of guests going round & round on the rides.

 

[GaryH]

You dont need the rides to be open late though to keep people in the park. Have something decent on the lawns with food and drink and people will stay behind to watch and soak up the atmosphere. Who remembers Alton beach? People used to stay behind sit on the deck chairs and soak up the view over the lake. Have an Alton party in the evenings of the summer weekends using the stage on the lawns with the rides closed and im sure people would stay behind to watch and join in (weather permitting obvs)

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Bring on universal

This is the key. Merlin apart from one or two parks have the monopoly so they don’t really care. Once another resort park opens with decent offerings and guests start going there instead of Merlin parks then they make take notice.

Contrary to popular belief, competition doesn't create a better product, or force companies to up their game. Competition forces companies to make tricky commercial decisions. Examples can be found throughout the world of entertainment.

Universal's hypothetical entry into the UK market will force Merlin / Kirkbi's hand to rethink their portfolio. They don't have bottomless pockets and the first products on the chopping block will be the previous Tussaud's Theme Park Resorts. Legoland Windsor and the London midway attractions are licences to print money, with evergreen products. Alton Towers, Chessington World of Adventures and Thorpe Park are risky businesses. They have ageing hardware, decades of neglect and won't be up to anywhere near the same standard as Universal's expected quality offering. The only reason why these parks exist in their current state, at all, is because they don't have to compete with each other, as they have the same owner. If they were spun off from Merlin, and run individually, I expect we'd see them follow a similar pattern to every other UK park.

If the hype is to believed, the entry of Universal to the UK market would possibly be the end of one or more of the current Merlin parks and I don't think this is a good thing. The market size is limited and already pushing its boundaries. There won't be another partner who will want to take on the operation of Alton Towers, Chessington World of Adventures and Thorpe Park, with Universal as a competitor, especially as they wouldn't even own the freeholds for the properties.

You will be trading three mediocre, but acceptable and nostalgia inducing parks, for one corporate commercial behemoth, able to charge whatever they want and monopolise the market.

I'm not sure the views of "bring on Universal" and "it will force Merlin to do something" are going to be as rosy as people think.