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Paultons Park: General Discussion

I respectfully disagree with this. I think that the areas around Alton Towers still have a relatively good flow between them. The contrast between the themed and unthemed areas at Paultons is, in my opinion, far more of a stark contrast.

That’s partially because Lost Kingdom and Tornado Springs are themed to such a high standard, but this doesn’t alter the fact that, right now in 2023, the contrast between areas just feels weird.
 
Enter Valhalla said:
I respectfully disagree with this. I think that the areas around Alton Towers still have a relatively good flow between them. The contrast between the themed and unthemed areas at Paultons is, in my opinion, far more of a stark contrast.

That’s partially because Lost Kingdom and Tornado Springs are themed to such a high standard, but this doesn’t alter the fact that, right now in 2023, the contrast between areas just feels weird.
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Are we really trying to argue that having everything dilapidated is better for consistencies sake than having some areas themed and some areas less/non themed but all still immaculately presented as what they are? Madness.
 
The question is will the park look at renovating these currently unthemed areas that come from the days prior to Peppa Pig coming in and changing the park for the better.

Currently it's very jarring. Magma just outside of Lost Kingdom is particularly errant in that side of things. However the park have shown desire to update as required, and given their previous issues with Cobra and t'Edge those are probably in the pipeline when they can get things that can come in smoothly.

Lost Kingdom is 7 years old this year. Not a particularly long time for a park to really go all out with redevelopments, especially given the Covid situation causing no shortage of issues. And Paultons don't have a deep well of money to build stuff with, and are clearly aiming for a far more sustainable business model that focuses on quality over quantity.

It's like with Towers building yet another coaster. There's a large number of issues across the board and it feels like a park with a lack of forward planning and direction. Though not helped with the recent changes of ownership but even so.
 
Another point worth considering is that unthemed areas don’t need to be bland.

There are areas in parks like Oakwood, Gold Reef City and even some of the Six Flags parks I’ve visited, where there’s literally no theming, but decent landscaping, and good placement of trees, plants and other foliage, make them really beautiful places to be without actually being themed as anything.

The older areas of Paultons may well be clean and well maintained, but they look bland. There’s no depth to them. If the argument is “all that’s wrong with these areas is that they’re unthemed”, then I’m sorry but I don’t agree. Take a look at the area around the Paultons log flume then take a look at the lake by Megafobia. It’s two different worlds.
 
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pluk said:
For those taking issue with the queue time and fastrack based self promotion, this is a great example how they run it.

Today is sold out, you can't buy a ticket, they won't take your money. The very expensive premium AP holders can still attend, but there aren't that many of them.

These are the queue times...
Screenshot_20230827-161939_Chrome~2.jpgScreenshot_20230827-161956_Chrome~2.jpg

That's as busy as they'll allow it to get, there's mo need to buy (or sell!) fastrack. You are basically guaranteed a good day out.

Note, availability is 100%, the listed closed ride was emoved last year for next year's new water ride.

They are not trading off of any lack of popularity, they are being popular by being excellent.
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This is interesting, this business stragety is clearly working for them and putting guest satisfaction first seems a good thing. I will say however, that I think most people in the UK, expect to queue when they got to a theme park. They don't want ridiculous long queue's but they don't mind queueing like half an hour. I think Paultons do have the scope here to increase park numbers a bit, without damaging there strategy.
 
Enter Valhalla said:
There are areas in parks like Oakwood, Gold Reef City and even some of the Six Flags parks I’ve visited, where there’s literally no theming, but decent landscaping, and good placement of trees, plants and other foliage, make them really beautiful places to be without actually being themed as anything.
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There are also an awful lot of unthemed areas at Oakwood that have no decent landscaping, no attractive plants or foliage and are far from beautiful places! The lake next to Megafobia is the exception rather than the rule.

On the other hand, pretty much all the unthemed areas of Paultons are neat and well-kept - lawns are mowed, hedges are trimmed and the estate as a whole is well-presented. The duck lake is delightful for a walk around and the waterwheel is a hidden gem.

Just my opinion, but I know my preference - I take my non-enthusiast husband to both parks once or twice a year and we both know which one we prefer from an aesthetic viewpoint.
 
NuttySquirrel said:
There are also an awful lot of unthemed areas at Oakwood that have no decent landscaping, no attractive plants or foliage and are far from beautiful places! The lake next to Megafobia is the exception rather than the rule.

On the other hand, pretty much all the unthemed areas of Paultons are neat and well-kept - lawns are mowed, hedges are trimmed and the estate as a whole is well-presented. The duck lake is delightful for a walk around and the waterwheel is a hidden gem.

Just my opinion, but I know my preference - I take my non-enthusiast husband to both parks once or twice a year and we both know which one we prefer from an aesthetic viewpoint.
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Of course. I never once said that the whole of Oakwood is well landscaped.

I’m simply responding to the comment that suggests the only issue with Paultons’ old areas is that they’re unthemed. This simply isn’t true. I also find many of them pretty bland too. So I used the example of Megafobia’s lake, as well as the other examples used, to highlight that an unthemed area isn’t always a bland area. In the case of the area around Cobra, the area around the log flume, and the areas around the penguins and teacups, these areas are just bland- tarmac flooring, flat ground, plain blue wooden huts, very little inspiring- and certainly not the apparent “premium” product that everyone keeps telling me Paultons is.

Paultons is a good family park, with two above average themed areas. But it lacks consistency across the entire park. This is what stops it from being a completely premium product in my view. Perhaps in 10 years time it will be. In fact if the level of theming in Lost Kingdom and Tornado Springs is continued, then it definitely will be. But in my opinion it’s not there yet. And I don’t see how Merlin’s weaknesses (of which there are many) makes Pautlons any better. Paultons are good at the things Merlin are bad at. But that doesn’t make them perfect in my opinion.
 
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It is true that Paultons benefits from being in an affluent area, and most premium parks are. The parks around Orlando are an anomaly, because Disney World attracts so many people from further afield. Around Europe the top tier parks tend to be in the most affluent areas, like France, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden, rather than the areas with the best climates. When you adjust from GDP to GDP per capita, the UK’s only something like the 13th strongest economy in Europe.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-per-capita-ppp?continent=europe

Once you take out London and the areas close to London, many parts of the UK are deprived by European standards. It is hard to run a premium park in a deprived area. Having said that, Thorpe Park, Chessington World of Adventures and Legoland are all in affluent area.

In any sector you get different tiers of product. Not every supermarket can be Waitrose. But the Merlin parks should be top tier parks.

The problem is that if Merlin are the top tier parks and they go for a discounting model, other ‘lesser’ parks have to push their prices lower than Merlin, and often end up at a point where it’s hard to make money. For example, Tripsdrill has to be cheaper than Europa Park, but because Europa Park’s quite expensive and doesn’t do a lot of discounting, they can still charge a reasonable price. Whereas some of the UK parks have taken their ticket prices very low to be cheaper than Merlin.

Given that the UK has a very weak economy it’s always going to be tough to run premium parks outside of the most affluent areas, but Merlin has also made it harder than it needed to be.
 
Shakey mentioned a few posts back that Paultons are just a few thrill rides away from being an all age park. But talking about their prising and capacity cap I see this as being the biggest obstacle stopping Paultons from building more thrilling rides.

The current business model works because as a park that only attracts families their capacity roughly matches the number of visitors they are likely to receive. But it is a small park and there's not much they can do to increase that capacity without sacrificing short queues. Opening up their target market can only really have 3 outcomes:
- They increase the capacity limit and we see the same long lines as all the other parks.
- The park sticks to the limit and becomes so popular that you have to book months in advance to get in.
- Or to prevent the above they massively increase their prices, and really do outprice a lot of their potential customers.

This is why I don't really see Paultons ever becoming the headline park of the UK. Its a shame as I'd like to see a large UK park adopt the same business model as a counter to Merlin's model, but Paultons just isn't a large enough park to take on somewhere like Alton Towers. It's the same problem Tussauds had with Chessington, and why they bought Alton to develop further.
 
Enter Valhalla said:
I appreciate that a lot of people on here like the Paultons business model, but the way that people defend it so aggressively, I do find pretty surprising.

Paultons are, as far as I’m aware, the only park in the UK to operate this business model, so to say the least, it must have its pros and cons. Unless of course you believe that it’s as binary as Paultons have it right, all the rest have it wrong.
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Blackpool Pleasure Beach operates very similar with low amounts of discounting, they do take Tesco Clubcard vouchers but there is no Kelloggs or Carex 2for1 like the Merlin parks.
 
I really like Paultons, a lot. But I do think it's a *bit* overrated - probably because the main UK competition is a bit of a hotch potch. But because you can't really fault the development of the place, I can't really hold that against them.
 
I just wonder why they haven’t built a dark ride yet… you guys agree they need one right?

No that safari one doesn’t count, that’s more akin to toadies crazy cars rather than the haunted house
 
The_bup said:
I just wonder why they haven’t built a dark ride yet… you guys agree they need one right?

No that safari one doesn’t count, that’s more akin to toadies crazy cars rather than the haunted house
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The cost vs risk and impact is always going to make dark rides riskier, I guess they've prioritised other things as a result.
Maybe the new development around Cobra will incorporate one, but I don't expect it to.

I think a big building is going to be tricky with planning in the currently unused areas. I anticipate the area immediately to the right of entry, which has various buildings along with the unused cinema, is one of the areas ripe for redevelopment and could make a good sized plot for an indoor ride.

I wouldn't be surprised if the thinking is to develop the park in the way they have to gradually shift from child heavy to more family and older market first, which is easier with ride areas and bigger hardware, then go for a darkride which fits the new customer base.

I think a decent water ride is a bigger priority, which the new area might address...
 
The whole mini street they have near the entrance must be on the long term plans for redevelopment, it doesn't really have any function. Agree the cinema would be a good option for a dark ride and allow they to swerve planning isssues
 
Tim said:
This is why I don't really see Paultons ever becoming the headline park of the UK. Its a shame as I'd like to see a large UK park adopt the same business model as a counter to Merlin's model, but Paultons just isn't a large enough park to take on somewhere like Alton Towers. It's the same problem Tussauds had with Chessington, and why they bought Alton to develop further.
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Or is it perhaps that they don't want to, even if they could?

Our (broken) model of capitalism in this country, especially the idea of 'shareholder primacy', means that shareholder-owned companies like Merlin have to try and grow and aggressively expand their market, even if it makes little sense in the context. They'd be breaking the law if they didn't.

From what I can see Paultons is family-owned, so have the luxury of not having to do that. If I owned a family-focused park that was already making decent profits each year, I'm not sure I'd want the hassle of trying to compete with Thorpe for thrillseekers – especially if I worked there day in, day out!
 
Merlin doesn’t have shareholders anymore does it? I thought that they sold it off and it became private back in 2019? Their business model doesn’t seem to have changed much since it’s days of being a public company, then again we have seen some investments with a little more substance since then.
 
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