Paultons Park: General Discussion

[Jb85]

In the past 12 months alone, you've had 5 new coasters open at the UK Merlin parks, plus a highly acclaimed dark ride and a reopening of another. You've had a completely brand new themed world open at one, and another get a complete overhaul.

I'm very happy to drink the kool aid of the smaller parks, and I'm glad that they're stepping up their game, but you can't say that they have more of a focus on investment and growth, when the investment levels of Merlin have never been higher and are astronomically larger than Drayton or Paultons.

5 coasters??

 

[Matt N]

5 coasters??

@GooseOnTheLoose could be counting Minifigure Speedway as 2 coasters, which they technically could be depending on how you count coasters. Minifigure Speedway is 2 creds in my eyes, but for some, it may only be 1.

Even still, though, that would be 4 coaster investments in the last year (Mandrill Mayhem in 2023 and Minifigure Speedway, Hyperia and Nemesis Reborn in 2024), and I do find myself agreeing with Goose’s overall point.

 

[Jb85]

@GooseOnTheLoose could be counting Minifigure Speedway as 2 coasters, which they technically could be depending on how you count coasters. Minifigure Speedway is 2 creds in my eyes, but for some, it may only be 1.

Even still, though, that would be 4 coaster investments in the last year (Mandrill Mayhem in 2023 and Minifigure Speedway, Hyperia and Nemesis Reborn in 2024), and I do find myself agreeing with Goose’s overall point.

Fair enough. Didn’t think of it like that

 

[Bowser]

In the past 12 months alone, you've had 5 new coasters open at the UK Merlin parks, plus a highly acclaimed dark ride and a reopening of another. You've had a completely brand new themed world open at one, and another get a complete overhaul.

A lot of those aren’t “new” though, hence the “patching” comment and 5 is a generous assessment.

Jumanji as a themed world is incredibly average imo. It has 2 poor and unreliable flat rides with lacklustre theming mostly.

Hex is old and not open. The Curse is old. Nemesis is old.

Speedway is essentially a replica of a ride at several other UK parks. It’s a fine addition but not particularly exciting.

I’m not dumping on Merlin because it’s fashionable. Mandrill is my favourite coaster in the country but alongside it you have several other coasters either regularly broken or SBNO. AT essentially hasn’t had a major new ride since 2018? The nemesis rebuild seems brilliant but ultimately it was a necessity.
I haven’t been to TP and Hyperia looks great but too early to comment fairly.

What’s the future for all these parks? Paultons looks more exciting to me as it stands.

 

[Matt Creek]

Don’t get me wrong, both Merlin and Paultons have built and opened some impressive and interesting attractions in the last 5-10 years, whether it be coasters, dark rides, flats or anything else.

The difference with Paultons though is not only have they invested in new and worthwhile additions, they have continued to maintain and upkeep the standards of the rest of the park. Even the food section has seen improvements in recent years. What this park has been doing is on the lines to some of the best European parks, albeit on a smaller scale of course.

Now Merlin. Don’t get me wrong, the likes of Wickerman & Alton Manor are nothing short of excellent additions. However not only throughout Towers, but the whole Merlin portfolio we are continually seeing very noticeable rundown areas, closed/mothballed retail/cafe units and SBNO or ripped out rides. Don’t get me started on F&B.

Whilst there has arguably been some signs of improvement in recent years, all the parks must make a continuous effort to avoid seeing these abandoned areas. There are currently at least six SBNO rides, spread between all the parks, with at least one in each.

Back onto Paultons, everything they’ve done since Cobra has been pushing the park up a notch each time. Even the little (yet nicely themed) small flume ride. Vikings may be a cliche, but it’s always been a popular topic with school kids and the prime target for Paultons is generally families with kids around that age.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

A lot of those aren’t “new” though, hence the “patching” comment and 5 is a generous assessment.

Jumanji as a themed world is incredibly average imo. It has 2 poor and unreliable flat rides with lacklustre theming mostly.

Hex is old and not open. The Curse is old. Nemesis is old.

Speedway is essentially a replica of a ride at several other UK parks. It’s a fine addition but not particularly exciting.

I’m not dumping on Merlin because it’s fashionable. Mandrill is my favourite coaster in the country but alongside it you have several other coasters either regularly broken or SBNO. AT essentially hasn’t had a major new ride since 2018? The nemesis rebuild seems brilliant but ultimately it was a necessity.
I haven’t been to TP and Hyperia looks great but too early to comment fairly.

What’s the future for all these parks? Paultons looks more exciting to me as it stands.

I'm not going to go into all of the ins and outs of what does and doesn't count as new. You said that Merlin weren't investing in their parks, at the same high level as Drayton and Paultons, which is demonstratably untrue.

If we're going to talk patching, then look no further than The Wave. One train. Inexcusably slow ops. Not even a jet wash. A reimagining, sure, but poorly executed.

You're attempting to compare a massive chain type corporation, with what's essentially a boutique mom and pop shop, and I don't think it's a useful analogy.

Paultons have clearly made some cracking investments recently, but let's not kid ourselves. Cobra's station looks like a municipal 1960s era NCP car park. Paultons are stepping up to the level which Merlin / The Tussaud's Group defined decades ago. They're welcome to the party. They're doing it in a single park though. Let's just not get ahead of ourselves and think that they're the second coming of Walt Wardley reincarnated.

If you were to compare parks at an individual level though, Paultons Vs Chessington (as an example), then I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

[Matt.GC]

I think it's a matter of trajectory. I've always thought that about Merlin parks. All the investment went in to Chessington in the 80's and 90's, Towers in the 90's, and Thorpe in the 2000's. Ever since, it's just been various levels of putting their feet up and riding on past glory. As if it's job done, and all they need to do is replace the odd attraction here and there (if you're lucky) as it reaches end of life, as long as the marketing and finance departments have signed it off first.

They sign it off mostly ignorant of the end result. It must be frustrating being a Merlin creative. All these visions of a revitalised Forbidden Valley, only for demands to be put on a set-piece like the station, leaving only enough budget left for a Fisher Price looking gun and a few tins of gloss black paint. Imagining this unique Mack coaster, before it's decided that they can't afford the steel, theming, or paint job, and it must break records, leaving you with half a coaster and a cattlepen queue that looks like it's themed to cigarettes. Drawing up plans for this amazing Jumanji themed Jungle, to see the budget spent on a big Jaguar shrine and a B&M to save on maintenance costs, leaving you with a lumbering slow coaster, and 2 SBF Visa flats that break down all the time. Invisioning themed food like black ice creams, paid for by contracting fast food joints to the cheapest bidder who whack prices up to astronomical highs, whilst significantly downgrading the quality.

But that's not how the leisure industry works. People don't have pay to visit your parks. It's a choice. You have to keep innovating and offering them something they can't get elsewhere for the same money.

That's where Paultons comes in. There's a coherent vision. They don't have to theme tiny little kiddie coasters, but they do. They already had a traveling log flume, but decided they wanted a small new one, landscaped it, and dressed it with animatronic dinosaurs. Storm Chaser is just a family Mack spinner, yet it's fully themed. The Diner is just a fast food joint, yet not only is it themed, but the food is edible and it hasn't been farmed out to Aramark. No gimmicks, no "Worlds First" records. No photogenic centerpieces surrounded by crap. No cheapo paint jobs.

Whilst Merlin are busy trying to contain years of rot and riding off the coat tails of past glory, Paultons is moving forward. Of course the dynamics are completely different, but it's already the best family park in the UK in my opinion. And it doesn't need B&M's, "World's Firsts", or BOGOF's on Yazoo bottles to do so. Just quality experiences. At the moment anyway.

 

[Bowser]

I'm not going to go into all of the ins and outs of what does and doesn't count as new. You said that Merlin weren't investing in their parks, at the same high level as Drayton and Paultons, which is demonstratably untrue.

If we're going to talk patching, then look no further than The Wave. One train. Inexcusably slow ops. Not even a jet wash. A reimagining, sure, but poorly executed.

You're attempting to compare a massive chain type corporation, with what's essentially a boutique mom and pop shop, and I don't think it's a useful analogy.

Paultons have clearly made some cracking investments recently, but let's not kid ourselves. Cobra's station looks like a municipal 1960s era NCP car park. Paultons are stepping up to the level which Merlin / The Tussaud's Group defined decades ago. They're welcome to the party. They're doing it in a single park though. Let's just not get ahead of ourselves and think that they're the second coming of Walt Wardley reincarnated.

If you were to compare parks at an individual level though, Paultons Vs Chessington (as an example), then I'm inclined to agree with you.

I'm not literally comparing the budgets of Paultons vs Merlin but if we're being pedantic then:

In the past 12 months alone, you've had 5 (Mandrill Mayhem, Nemesis Reborn, Lego Minifigure Speedway x 2, Hyperia )new coasters open at the UK Merlin parks,

- Mandrill opened over 12 months ago.
- Nemesis is a retrack, not a new coaster.
- Hyperia isn't open.
- Speedway is really 1 new attraction if we're being honest.


But i digress. The point is the trajectory. Paulton's have spent the last 10 years creating a reputation as a fantastic young family park with excellent theming and reliable rides. Now they're building on that with forthcoming rides aimed at an older demographic and unique attractions.

Merlin parks tend to face a barrage of criticism across social media due to poor operations and neglect. Obviously that's a historical issue and one they're working on to a degree but there are still far more problems than lights at the end of the tunnel. There are more rides facing serious issues than there are new ones replacing them.

To me the future of Paulton's feels exciting and i love how they've laid it out. The future of all the Merlin parks far less so. I think @Matt.GC has just made a great summary above but in the end we can probably agree to disagree.

 

[Shaggy_Dog_]

I'm not literally comparing the budgets of Paultons vs Merlin but if we're being pedantic then:



- Mandrill opened over 12 months ago.
- Nemesis is a retrack, not a new coaster.
- Hyperia isn't open.
- Speedway is really 1 new attraction if we're being honest.

Minifigure Speedway is most definitely one attraction (even though some people count it as two creds) but please try and refrain from brandishing the clown emoji around so much, is it not a bit rude?

 

[Bowser]

Minifigure Speedway is most definitely one attraction (even though some people count it as two creds) but please try and refrain from brandishing the clown emoji around so much, is it not a bit rude?

Was meant to indicate humour, Goose and I are buddies but have amended.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

- Mandrill opened over 12 months ago.

I'm out by 4 days. Sure go nuts.

Hyperia isn't open.

I'm 5 days early, but it's very much there and has been built, but sure, go nuts, claim that too.

Nemesis is a retrack, not a new coaster.

Yeah, I mean what's £10 million on a coaster, after all, but a patch job and not an investment?

Minifigure Speedway, 1 attraction, 2 coasters (individual different layouts and complete). I'm not being off, I even defined and clarified.

Investment levels are higher at Merlin, but as I mentioned before that's understandable given the demographic and size of the corporation. Compare parks with each other all you want, it's unhelpful to compare a conglomerate of attractions with a single entity / operator.

There's also, really, no need to call people a clown or crazy, because they objectively disagree with you. That's just mean spirited. I understand that you have a personal connection to the park, you've often mentioned how it's a special place for your family, but there's no need to attack people for having a differing view over it.

Paultons are delivering because we expect so little, but recently they've hit it out of the park (though Flight of the Pterosaur finishes as soon as the ride gets interesting). Merlin are "failing" because we expect so much and they hadn't been delivering.

Paultons is a lovely little small park, with small rides, small attendance and is definitely moving in an interesting and imaginative direction. I think that they can afford to be a little more specialist and involved than Merlin can with their much larger collection of parks and attractions. This is the curse of swallowing everyone up though and catering for different audiences all over the place, you become too big and a jack of all trades.

 

[Quantum]

I don't think Paultons is that small, it's just all the areas are close together which makes it very easy to get around. They also have a decent amount of land for expansion. I've been three times and it's been great every visit. I do hope they push the boundaries a bit with Thier new area in terms of ride offerings.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I don't think Paultons is that small, it's just all the areas are close together which makes it very easy to get around. They also have a decent amount of land for expansion. I've been three times and it's been great every visit. I do hope they push the boundaries a bit with Thier new area in terms of ride offerings.

Its reported acreage is half the size of Drayton Manor Park and Zoo, which is very much on the small side. I agree it feels like an expansive park, from one side to the other, but quite shallow. I didn't mean it in a negative sense, but just comparatively (to the Merlin attractions at least) it is small. Granted nowhere near as small as somewhere like Gulliver's or Blackpool etc.

 

[Bowser]

There's also, really, no need to call people a clown or crazy, because they objectively disagree with you. That's just mean spirited. I understand that you have a personal connection to the park, you've often mentioned how it's a special place for your family, but there's no need to attack people for having a differing view over it.

To clarify, once again, I was not calling you a clown and it certainly wasn’t in relation to the disagreement of opinions so I think it’s a bit unfair to suggest it was, I was using an emoji to indicate that I was joking because as you recognise (which I hoped you would based on our previous interactions), 2 of the rollercoasters fall a few days outside of the proposed 12 month window.

Evidently that wasn’t clear, hopefully it is now and apologies for any unintentional offence caused. The joys of communicating via text.

Unfortunately that seems to have distracted from the subject at hand so again I’ll suggest we agree to disagree and hopefully part on better terms this round *insert hugging emoji if applicable or some grass to snack on*

 

[James]

It depends on the aim of individual parks. It's not as clear cut as ‘well, Alton Towers is only replacing rides’.

Paultons is a park aiming to expand and grow, and they are doing a great job.

I cannot speak for all parks, but certainly, Alton Towers is established as the UK's most popular park, and investment has aimed to maintain that claim. Visitor figures over the years for Alton have remained relatively stable (bar the post-2015 incident and Covid, hopefully, both of which are ‘freak’ events). I remember the old LTDP from 2007/2008 that suggested three routes for Towers: lessen investment and visitor numbers, continue with yearly investment to maintain existing visitor numbers, or heavily invest and increase visitor figures exponentially. Merlin/Towers chose to maintain visitor figures, and they have achieved that over the years. Whether you agree with their investments is a personal opinion.

Edit: Typos

 

[The Big Mack]

Height will certainly be an issue, I'm pretty sure the park has a height restriction. Sean Evans seems convinced it's something from Intamin. If this is true then I hope it's a Hot Racer model, it would suit the park really well and wouldn't need to be massively tall. Either way construction can't be far off if they want it open by 2026 almond with a complete retheme of the area.

Engineers explained to us that the park can build anything up to 25 meters. But if the park do wish to go higher, they'd be required to apply for planning permission. Having said that, Lawrence Mancey did appear throw some subtle shade at parks that simply chase height records over quality experiences, so I wouldn't expect to see anything too tall at Paultons, it is after all a park for families that could offer something more akin to The Wave, Mandrill Mayhem.. or Baron 1898 at a push.

 

[Bowser]

It depends on the aim of individual parks. It's not as clear cut as ‘well, Alton Towers is only replacing rides’.

Paultons is a park aiming to expand and grow, and they are doing a great job.

I cannot speak for all parks, but certainly, Alton Towers id established as the UK's most popular park, and investment has aimed to maintain that claim. Visitor figures over the years for Alton have remained relatively stable (bar the post-2015 incident and Covid, hopefully, both of which are ‘freak’ events). I remember the old LTDP from 2007/2008 that suggested three routes for Towers: lessen investment and visitor numbers, continue with yearly investment to maintain existing visitor numbers, or heavily invest in increasing visitor figures exponentially. Merlin/Towers chose to maintain visitor figures, and they have achieved that over the years. Whether you agree with their investments is a personal opinion.

I think Legoland is technically the most popular park in the UK (as of 2022 at least if we're basing it on annual visitor numbers).

Certainly a valid point on the parks intentions in terms of maintaining visitor numbers. I do wonder if the current policy will make that increasingly difficult if Universal goes ahead.

From a customer perspective i really like Paultons opting to be so open about the their future plans. It's exciting to know they have a unique dark ride for 2025, a new rollercoaster and themed land for 2026 and a general shift towards including rides for older demographics. All the more when they've set a strong precedent for quality.

 

[Robinsonhtid]

They don't want to go too high either to not ruin the new forest landscape.

Fantastic park full of happy staff who actually seemed cared for unlike the merlin parks or even other companies.

Can't wait to see ghostly manor and see what the viking land will be like, I can dream of a rmc haha.

 

[AT86]

I think Legoland is technically the most popular park in the UK (as of 2022 at least if we're basing it on annual visitor numbers).

As of 2021 Alton Towers was the most visited, there was a period post Smiler incident that Legoland had higher visitation, but this was only until 2018. As of 2021 the gap between the two is actually quite large.

Source for the below is direct from Merlin, as part of the planning application for the Chessington Waterpark.

 

[Bowser]

As of 2021 Alton Towers was the most visited, there was a period post Smiler incident that Legoland had higher visitation, but this was only until 2018. As of 2021 the gap between the two is actually quite large.

Source for the below is direct from Merlin, as part of the planning application for the Chessington Waterpark.

Statista has data for 2022 with Legoland higher than AT but can't confirm if those numbers are correct. Probably deviating a bit from the topic either way but interesting graph, thanks! Fascinating to see the differing periods of popularity and makes me wonder how many rides AT had in 1994 compared to today.