Planet Coaster 2: General Discussion

[Dhev123]

I'd love the game to have a day-to-day type scenario, where you have to manage your park as if it was only a day, i.e.,
- get the rides ready in the morning, if a ride flags as 'not ready' then you'll have to get it sorted
- manage issues and breakdowns throughout the 'day'
idk I think it would be cool

oh and off-season time would be great.

I play on my mac and the game runs so slowly when guests are in the park, so it's a lot of effort to build new rides, buildings, etc as the frames per second are so low. I end up building the new rides in an empty park then insert the blueprint to my park to save time and effort

therefore, having an official off-season where guests clear out would be a lot of fun as well

 

[MaxPower]

We need a truly grounded career mode

Have a bit of realism

This was one of the things that was great about alot of the original RCT scenarios, they looked like they could be real parks.

There definitely needs to be more variation in the scenarios, things like height limits on rides and other planning restrictions would make it alot more interesting.

It would be good if they could take a leaf out of Planet Zoo's book and have different locations across the world, just no silly far fetched stuff.

 

[Danny]

Parkitect has a great balance of fantasy vs realism in the career mode. It'd be great to see that range (and also level of career progression).

 

[Dave]

From the videos and information released, it seems Planet Coaster 2 is taking the RCT2 approach of “Don’t which what ain’t broke” which I’m sure will be a relief to many players!

All I would say though is that Frontier’s focus on “More, more, more! Here’s this vast array of scenery pieces. Well give you the rides, but it’s up to use to use the thousands of pieces available to make them look good.” is getting a bit tiresome.

Sandbox is great, but it shouldn’t be the default, it should be an option.

It shouldn’t take half an hour just to design a toilet block, or 2hrs to design a fully-themed coaster. And frankly, frontier shouldn’t be relying on people using workshop items as “shortcuts” to making things look decent. It then doesn’t feel genuine, it’s no longer your creation.

What I’d really like to see (but unlikely to see given frontiers attitude) is a game where all ships for example have a default building for each theme that are all similarly sized, and cost the same to build.

Same goes for ride skins. Give the option of a default ride skin, and one of each theme. Again, this shouldn’t affect the build cost (due to some scenery prices being more expensive/extensive)

Then the career mode. Please for the love of god less of the fantasy stuff with dragons and huge monsters with hovering spacecraft! In moderation fine, but not every scenario!

We need a truly grounded career mode. I.e “You’ve inherited the position of fairground manager, but your guests want more than just your average run-of-the-mill funfair. Improve the park, theme the rides, and show the local authority that your park can be a permanent fixture drawing in crowds from around the country!”

Have a bit of realism. Some surrounding houses, car park/train station that are fixed. Some topography constraints and tailored research tree specific to each scenario. Each scenario should build on the last in scale and challenge. Challenge bring something the game needs a lot more of!

The way the transportation options work needs overhauling too. This is a big one. For instance, if you build a monorail, the train spends far too much time in the station, as guests don’t begin exiting the queue onto the platform until the train arrives. This could easily be solved either with air gates, or allowing a trains worth of people to access the platform. Passengers should enter/exit at the same time. If you build the station with entry one side, exit the other, this should make boarding/disembarking 4x quicker and more realistic.

Finally a wider array of map sizes for each scenario, with unlock able areas and more challenging terrain would go a long way! This could be used in sandbox/challenge too, so players aren’t over-faced with a huge area of flat land with no constraining features to guide the park layout and present some challenge/realism.

The scenery/build menus also seem to remain overly-complex. You should be able to just click “pirate” and see a variety of wall sets within that theme, and the same for scenery. The current system of endless categories and sub-categories is overwhelming and results in decision fatigue which makes the game less enjoyable, and often a bit of a chore!

If only Chris Sawyer and Frontier were to combine forces again. The results could be fantastic!

A lot of what you are suggesting is what the workshop does. You depend on the players who love the design to create things you can pop in your parks and maybe just edit slightly.

I would say with Planco 1 80% of what I put in parks came from the workshop and I would edit it.

I like that system as it gives the game flexibility. Planco 2 they are making the workshop central so it crosses all platforms rather than the current use of steam workshop which only benefits PC players.

 

[GJMarshy]

A lot of what you are suggesting is what the workshop does. You depend on the players who love the design to create things you can pop in your parks and maybe just edit slightly.

I would say with Planco 1 80% of what I put in parks came from the workshop and I would edit it.

I like that system as it gives the game flexibility. Planco 2 they are making the workshop central so it crosses all platforms rather than the current use of steam workshop which only benefits PC players.

I'd argue that's just lazy on the part of the developers to be honest.

We see this reliance on modding/workshop communities with cities skylines too, and it just makes everything feel in-cohesive. Some workshop items will be very high quality, some medium, some low etc. Building styles are also vastly different, sas naturally each player has their own style. That's what creates the in-cohesive feel that the original RCT games didn't suffer from. Everything looked cohesive with minima time/effort on the part of the player, and had zero reliance on user created content being used in-place of (what should be) default, in-game buildings and scenery pieces.

It's great that Frontier appreciate and promote sharing creations via the workshop, heck the stuff people produce is incredible! But it shouldn't be reliant on it. That's where planet coaster suffers now, and what PC2 will if this isn't addressed.

For example, all default shops should be complete with an attached building, with an alternate "build your own" option, that is in addition to, rather than replacing default in-game, cohesively designed items. It should be about providing an absolutely solid base game that can be played and enjoyed without using the workshop, instead treating that as "extra," not what the game relies on to feel complete.

 

[Dave]

I'd argue that's just lazy on the part of the developers to be honest.

We see this reliance on modding/workshop communities with cities skylines too, and it just makes everything feel in-cohesive. Some workshop items will be very high quality, some medium, some low etc. Building styles are also vastly different, sas naturally each player has their own style. That's what creates the in-cohesive feel that the original RCT games didn't suffer from. Everything looked cohesive with minima time/effort on the part of the player, and had zero reliance on user created content being used in-place of (what should be) default, in-game buildings and scenery pieces.

It's great that Frontier appreciate and promote sharing creations via the workshop, heck the stuff people produce is incredible! But it shouldn't be reliant on it. That's where planet coaster suffers now, and what PC2 will if this isn't addressed.

For example, all default shops should be complete with an attached building, with an alternate "build your own" option, that is in addition to, rather than replacing default in-game, cohesively designed items. It should be about providing an absolutely solid base game that can be played and enjoyed without using the workshop, instead treating that as "extra," not what the game relies on to feel complete.

Modding is lazy but creating a game that allows players to be creative and sharing that creativity isn’t.

I would rather the Planet Coaster model to some other games that lock you into certain stylistic choices.

 

[James5696]

All I would say though is that Frontier’s focus on “More, more, more! Here’s this vast array of scenery pieces. Well give you the rides, but it’s up to use to use the thousands of pieces available to make them look good.” is getting a bit tiresome.

Yes! I hate that I literally have to attach wheels to the car pieces. I don’t want the frame of a car! I want a car!

 

[Tim]

People always forget that the original RCT's (1 & 2) only work because your brain fills in a lot of the details. You can count the number of pixels that make up a building. And as such the same generic toilet block can represent both a basic amusement park building or a well presented Disney bathroom. Likewise all the food stalls are kind of tacky, but they fit the artstyle and so it works.

Translating that to a fully rendered 3D game is a lot of work. And similar to the first point I don't think people appreciate how hard it is to make a game that is simple enough that anyone can create something good, complex enough that the management feels engaging, and gives plays the freedom to truly customise every detail.

This is why I agree with Dave about the workshop. Frontier do actually provide a basic blueprint for things like shops in each theme (and likley will for rides in this new game). But there designer's probably only have a few hours to work on them and have a target number of pieces they are aiming for. Something that a fan spends hours working on will naturally end up looking better.

Also, regarding adding wheels on cars. I personally like that it comes in many pieces. Having wheels that can be used for so many other things is incredibly useful. And if it annoys you, here's a trick. Build a car once, save it as a blueprint, use the blueprint every time you want a car.

 

[GJMarshy]

I think ultimately this all comes back to the open/closed source argument of how technology should be implemented. For example, windows is an immensely powerful and capable operating system, but it’s highly reliant on third-party hardware/software to do so. If you’re a computer whiz it’s probably the right thing for you, as the level of control you have over it is immense, right down to plug-ins and even the individual fine-tuning of those.

As a Mac user of 10 years (never gone back,) I’m much more comfortable with a more closed-source, cohesive and reliable syste, that is implemented equally across other Macs (assuming the same OS) with all the necessary things already integrated into it. It just feels much easier to work with, and means if I use any other Mac, I don’t need to worry about plug-ins and software required to open files etc, it’s just there, exactly the same as my laptop at home.

This sort of thing translates into the gaming world (especially sandbox style games.) You get developers who have a very set-style, and strong desire for complete cohesion (with a less steep learning curve but with some limitations) Then you get those like Paradox, who do the bare minimum and leave the rest to the modding community and workshop.

Frontier sits somewhere in between from what I can tell. They’ve produced games like Jurassic Work Evolution 1/2 which had limitations set on them to protect the IP, and be console friendly. Personally I love these games as everything pretty much looks good from the off, with an extra few minutes and a bit of creative thought you can use those limitations as inspiration to make the best park you can.

The Planet Coaster/Zoo franchise seems to be Frontier’s real passion project, but personally I think they’re at risk of alienating swathes of casual players (who maybe just want to play a couple hours after work or school etc), by focusing far too much on pleasing the smaller, hard-core “we need complete customisation” club.

There’s no doubt the games have been successful in tapping into those demographics, but the reach could be wider, and much more accessible for casual players. The simple fix is to have a solid base game with fully themed items (not blueprints made up of multiple items that therefore differ drastically in cost/size/style,) and a separate “make your own” part of the game, that exists separately to that in sandbox form.

The base game, challenge, and career modes (which should be a lot longer with more variety,) should be limited to in-built items that result in a satisfying game to play, whilst still looking good without too much effort.

The sandbox element can include all the individual wheels/door parts for cars etc, and be more geared toward extensive customisation. This levels the playing field for challenge/career, which makes the game a lot more satisfying to play! And look better too!

Frontier are definitely capable of making things look good and feel cohesive without relying on the niche community that spend hours/days/weeks/months making things. They’ve done it for other titles, so I’m confident they can do it for Planet Coaster.

 

[Tim]

Where I disagree with your assessment is that I don't think the 'smaller' group of creative players actually is that small. To my knowledge Planet Coaster is more successful than Jurasic World Evolution. And a key part of that is because people play these games for the creative element.

What you are suggesting they move back to is bulky pre-themed rides, which is exactly the opposite of what other players have been asking for.

I must also highlight that Blueprints are not the same as Mods. I too get frustrated that Cities Skylines needs a lot of custom made content added to the game to unlock its full potential. But blueprints are just ingame assets already placed by another player. If you are not happy with the piece count or cost ect. then choses a different one. At this stage there are 100s of options per ride.

However for your other points I don't disagree. While I would like to spend hours playing this game in reality I don't have the time.
But from what we've seen so far I think they are doing everything they can to streamline the gameplay. Planet Zoo plays so much better than Planet Coaster because they learnt a lot from the mistakes of Planet Coaster. Little things like having all building/scenery pieces in a single menu make a big difference. And they've got a lot better at designing pieces that are easier to use and have more flexibility with how we use can use them. This is why I'm very happy they are not carrying over all the old pieces from PC1.

 

[Benzin]

Even RCT2 became a custom scenery paradise by the end of its life. Same for RCT3.

With the finite amount of time that developers have with the game there's only so much that can be done. There is also very much a difference in how Parkitect was targeted as more of a direct successor to the original RCT, and that is representative of the overall game design.

Planet Coaster follows the less managerial design of RCT3 unsurprisingly, but even Frontier have clearly seen their own flaws with the game given the changes in Planet Zoo which look like they'll be going to continue in the sequel.

Don't mind it really. There's still ability to do basic buildings around the shops, and I'd much rather a completely unthemed base ride that I can add into any area of my park.

 

[Poisson]

I'd also like the ability to remove all the lights off a ride, which they will hopefully implement. Very rarely do I want a ride with fairground style lights on it.

 

[GJMarshy]

I’d be really keen to see what the campaign mode for PC2 is like. If they can nail that with some more depth, realism and more variety of scenarios, that puts PC2 firmly on the right path.

There’s something to be said for creating campaign concepts before getting into the sandbox elements. That way the developer sees what elements are/are not needed to create a realistic, cohesive and engaging game on the management front.

Pretty sure this was the approach Chris Sawyer took with RCT1 too. He saw that guests would get lost if the park layout was too complex, and decided to keep it in the game as that reflected his real life experience. Sometimes the game became too easy too, and so research, loans and staff micromanaging was implemented. And we all know it turned out to be arguably the best in the RCT series! RCT2 had more variety, but the campaign (whilst visually engaging) lacked the challenge and thought behind them the original game had.

That said, RCT3 had a very extensive, mostly realistic and rewarding career mode. Each scenario was very well thought though, with unique challenges. The introduction of VIP’s was a fun touch. It centred it around guests needs/wants.

If Frontier can deliver a career mode as extensive and well thought-through as RCT3 & RCT1 before it, they’re on the right track to hitting the notes PC1 missed.

 

[Donkey]

I’d be really keen to see what the campaign mode for PC2 is like. If they can nail that with some more depth, realism and more variety of scenarios, that puts PC2 firmly on the right path.

There’s something to be said for creating campaign concepts before getting into the sandbox elements. That way the developer sees what elements are/are not needed to create a realistic, cohesive and engaging game on the management front.

Pretty sure this was the approach Chris Sawyer took with RCT1 too. He saw that guests would get lost if the park layout was too complex, and decided to keep it in the game as that reflected his real life experience. Sometimes the game became too easy too, and so research, loans and staff micromanaging was implemented. And we all know it turned out to be arguably the best in the RCT series! RCT2 had more variety, but the campaign (whilst visually engaging) lacked the challenge and thought behind them the original game had.

That said, RCT3 had a very extensive, mostly realistic and rewarding career mode. Each scenario was very well thought though, with unique challenges. The introduction of VIP’s was a fun touch. It centred it around guests needs/wants.

If Frontier can deliver a career mode as extensive and well thought-through as RCT3 & RCT1 before it, they’re on the right track to hitting the notes PC1 missed.

Yeah I totally agree with this. In Planet Coaster I felt that the campaign was very much an afterthought when really it should be the main focus of the 'game'. Sure they added lots of features to try to improve the management aspects but sometimes just having simple features that work well is more fun than having lots of busywork features.

Even though RCT3 had a sandbox mode the main focus of the game was still the campaign which had a diverse range of scenarios which each had their own character. Although personally I was not a fan of the VIP goals because they were so buggy and frustrating!

 

[Dhev123]

Does anyone know if PC2 will still have the existing DLC from the first game? I.E., worlds fair, adventure, spooky etc.

Obviously we have new in - game themes such as aquatic and Viking but I would love to see the other in-game themes/DLC from the original remain on top of new ones

 

[Dave]

I agree that Planco campaign game was weak but I don’t think that’s because of the free form
build model as the game had enough workshop items within the game build before you went to the player workshop to add to it.

It was weak because the management side of Planco was weak.

 

[Donkey]

Does anyone know if PC2 will still have the existing DLC from the first game? I.E., worlds fair, adventure, spooky etc.

Obviously we have new in - game themes such as aquatic and Viking but I would love to see the other in-game themes/DLC from the original remain on top of new ones

No it will be similar to PC1 when it came out and have the 5 themes that they have announced at launch plus whatever rides come with the base game.

They are having to re-do everything from scratch so it is effectively a new game with the work that involves. Plus their business model is to make money from DLCs.

 

[Benjsh]

No it will be similar to PC1 when it came out and have the 5 themes that they have announced at launch plus whatever rides come with the base game.

They are having to re-do everything from scratch so it is effectively a new game with the work that involves. Plus their business model is to make money from DLCs.

I think them 'having to re-do everything from scratch' is a bit of an exaggeration.

There will be lots of stuff ready built from the first game for them to simply tweak and improve ever so slightly. That's a massive time saver.

New theming elements and the water park stuff will be from scratch but I'd imagine a lot of the game's core features won't be changing that much really so won't need anywhere near the production time the first game had.

Excited to see what IP, if any, they incorporate this time as DLC as I imagine Ghostbusters won't be returning for the second game.

 

[Dave]

I think them 'having to re-do everything from scratch' is a bit of an exaggeration.

There will be lots of stuff ready built from the first game for them to simply tweak and improve ever so slightly. That's a massive time saver.

New theming elements and the water park stuff will be from scratch but I'd imagine a lot of the game's core features won't be changing that much really so won't need anywhere near the production time the first game had.

Excited to see what IP, if any, they incorporate this time as DLC as I imagine Ghostbusters won't be returning for the second game.

I think it is from scratch as they are using the Planet Zoo engine which means they can’t transfer over Planco 1 assets. That’s how it’s been described anyway.

 

[Donkey]

I think it is from scratch as they are using the Planet Zoo engine which means they can’t transfer over Planco 1 assets. That’s how it’s been described anyway.

Yeah that seemed to be the way they were describing it in the first livestream, it is essentially a completely different game built up from the ground up.

Someone asked a question about backwards compatibility with PC1 saves/assets/workshop items and the answer they gave was something like 'unfortunately no, it is a different game using a different engine. All the assets need to be recreated from scratch.'