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PortAventura: General Discussion

Alastair said:
Surely though the only way to judge whether it is good or not is to visit the competition, and assess the quality of their parks in comparison? I could eat fish and chips every night of my life, although it wouldn't mean I could say that fish and chips are the greatest meal of all time, as I've never tried anything else.
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I agree with you that it is right to try out the competition. This is why speaking for myself, and probably a lot of other PA fans, I like to explore the competition and am constantly trying to visit more parks abroad whenever I can rather than going back to PA time after time. In the past 12 months alone for example, I have visited 7 different international parks yet PA keeps drawing me back and I love Baco and also like Stampida a lot. This suggests: a) that sam's belief that the only people who like these coasters haven't been on any others is untrue and, b) that there is such a thing as opinions.

Your fish and chips argument is totally different to what Sam is saying. I could say that fish and chips are my favourite food but have eaten loads of other food. Sam's comeback would most likely be "you obviously haven't eaten lots of food like I have otherwise you wouldn't think that" He would be completely ignoring the fact that I have eaten other things. In the same way that he ignores the fact that PA fans have often been to plenty of other international parks. Sam seems to think that all people who like Baco and Stampida are BPB fans who have only been to PA and parks in the UK which is an absurd and completely untrue generalisation.

Opinions are just that. Opinions. It's what you enjoy and not everyone has to agree on what's best. Sam seems to think they do hence his surprise when I said that I preferred Stampida to Joris. Nothing to do with not experiencing the competition. I don't understand why certain people don't seem to get that.
 
I disagree that PA is a second tier park.

It's very much in the top 5-6 overall parks in Europe.

I am confused about Baco and Stampida genuinely though. Stampida is horribly rough and slow compared to many other modern wooden coasters and Baco vibrates almost causing a brain haemorrhage.

The gulf between them and Shambhala is astounding.

El Diablo is poor too.
 
AstroDan said:
I disagree that PA is a second tier park.

It's very much in the top 5-6 overall parks in Europe.

I am confused about Baco and Stampida genuinely though. Stampida is horribly rough and slow compared to many other modern wooden coasters and Baco vibrates almost causing a brain haemorrhage.

The gulf between them and Shambhala is astounding.

El Diablo is poor too.
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I agree with you about El Diablo.

In regards to the Furius Baco and Stampida debate, my answer would simply be that I enjoy them and find them intense.

Like I said to Sam, I Personally I don't like to pick apart every element of a coaster in order to decide in my mind the reasons to justify liking it. For me that just sucks the fun out of riding coasters.

I know that a lot of enthusiasts do over think coasters and always feel that they have to justify why they enjoy rides based on every element and then ridicule others for thinking differently. Indeed I know several people who before they consider visiting any park, they watch POVs of every coaster and make a detailed analysis of each coaster before even riding it. If that's how people like to plan their trips and later form their opinions of coaster then that's fine for them but it wouldn't suit me at all. POVs are often nothing to go by. The Ultimate's POV for example makes it look rubbish yet this is one of the best coasters in the UK. Likewise White Lightning's POV makes it look really intense and thrilling yet when I rode it I found it one of the most disappointing woodies I've ever ridden.

People shouldn't need to justify why they like coasters. It's what does it for you. Stampida and Baco do it for me, other coasters don't. Many of those coasters may be ones which, on this forum, are rated highly.
 
I dislike The Ultimate.

Basically, I don't like really rough coasters.

:)
 
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And here is where the 'good' vs 'bad' coaster argument lies. It is an undeniable fact that Stampida (one side more than the other when I went) and Baco are rough. Of course some people may like this therefore that is fine, you can like what you want, it would be boring if we all liked the same things.

But do parks and coaster manufactures set out to design rough coasters? I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no. Some want to design really intense coaster which can often lead to roughness (hello Intamin, I'm looking at you here). Therefore if a coaster is rough or turn rough, in the eye's of the park and manufacturer it is going to be considered poor/bad. That does not mean you cannot like it though.

By that logic Baco is a bad coaster. That in my opinion would be an industry fact. It doesn't mean people don't like it and it doesn't mean that it isn't popular with guests of the park. But it is pretty much a fact that it is a bad coaster. Intamin have not sold a single other wing coaster since and B&M changed the design of their model substantially from Intamin's (the heartline of the rider).

If a coaster does not do what it should, i.e. it is rough, it has a boring layout, it should provide airtime but doesn't etc, then it can be considered bad on the whole.

:)
 
Rob said:
And here is where the 'good' vs 'bad' coaster argument lies. It is an undeniable fact that Stampida (one side more than the other when I went) and Baco are rough. Of course some people may like this therefore that is fine, you can like what you want, it would be boring if we all liked the same things.

But do parks and coaster manufactures set out to design rough coasters? I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no. Some want to design really intense coaster which can often lead to roughness (hello Intamin, I'm looking at you here). Therefore if a coaster is rough or turn rough, in the eye's of the park and manufacturer it is going to be considered poor/bad. That does not mean you cannot like it though.

By that logic Baco is a bad coaster. That in my opinion would be an industry fact. It doesn't mean people don't like it and it doesn't mean that it isn't popular with guests of the park. But it is pretty much a fact that it is a bad coaster. Intamin have not sold a single other wing coaster since and B&M changed the design of their model substantially from Intamin's (the heartline of the rider).

If a coaster does not do what it should, i.e. it is rough, it has a boring layout, it should provide airtime but doesn't etc, then it can be considered bad on the whole.

:)
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See this I understand and agree with. As I've said I love Baco, but I like rough coasters so the two go hand in hand. Am I right in thinking Furius Baco was a prototype from Intamin? If so I wouldn't say the roughness is necessarily PortAventura's, more Intamins. Saying that it's not hard to see why others don't like Baco, it's not exactly 'it's a small world'.
 
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The roughness and poor ride design is most definitely the responsibility of Intamin. It is then down to the park to work with the manufacturer in order to try to reduce these problems as much as possible, as they may receive guest complaints if riding causes pain and/or injury. Regarding Stampida, I think it's 1/2 and 1/2. The new trains were ultimately ordered by the park, and perhaps should not have been. That said, Kumbak should do better. But frankly Kumbak are appalling and I reckon PA only went with them as it was cheap.

Rob makes an excellent point.

Whilst there is no denying that some people like 'rough' rollercoasters, no park or manufacturer would set out to deliver such a ride. However, I guess that science sometimes gets the better of engineers.

All manufacturers have both rough and smooth coasters - including B&M and Mack! Although with both of those two, it tends to be their older rides.

:)
 
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I also think PortAventura are somewhat to blame for Stampida, as they ordered the new trains. I've never rode it with the original trains, does anybody know if it was rough then?

As for Furius Baco, I'd say PortAventura have done as much as they can on their part. Over the last few years it's received extra head padding and supports, leg guards and new weights and wheels on the trains to try and reduce the shaking and make the attraction more comfortable. I do think it has improved in past years, but it still is unbelievably turbulent and not for the faint of heart.
 
Stampida's newer trains have actually made it rougher. It was perfectly serviceable if not outstanding for much of the late 90s and early 00s.
 
siralgenon said:
Am I right in thinking Furius Baco was a prototype from Intamin? If so I wouldn't say the roughness is necessarily PortAventura's, more Intamins.
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PortAventura ordered it though. Given Intamin's track record for frequently delivering appalling rides, ordering a prototype major thrill coaster from them that goes at 84mph is beyond stupid.
 
Today PortAventura was in The Sun newspaper:

'PortAventura - the Theme Park, Waterpark and Hotel Resort in Spain is to open its first 5* Hotel in April. Hotel Mansion De Lucy will feature 31 rooms in an American 19th century-style mansion. Guests will have access to a spa, gym and a la carte restaurant. They will also receive Premium Express passes for the Theme Park rides and shows without having to queue. The Resort will also open 78 deluxe rooms at Hotel Gold River. These offer free entry to PortAventura Park, discounts to Costa Caribe Aquatic Park, free WiFi and buffet breakfast as well as Express passes and loads of other special offers.'

 
Express Passes blah blah blah.

It could be that PA sell more of these than any other park in Europe. Perhaps after Thorpe.

When I visited last there were so, so many...

There are a lot of people who say the park is not visitable in all but the quietest days without them!
 
I've been going to PortAventura for 10+ years and I've only ever bought one Express Pass. With that in mind I have never had a problem getting on attraction, and when I did buy a pass I was only ever waiting about 5 minutes in the queue.

In relation to the hotels you only receive free Express passes if you are staying in a Deluxe room.

In regards to @AstroDan, yes there are a lot, but I've never noticed it affect the queue lines.
 
siralgenon said:
I've been going to PortAventura for 10+ years and I've only ever bought one Express Pass. With that in mind I have never had a problem getting on attraction
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Yes but you usually go for seven days or similar so queuing an hour for Khan on one train with a ton of queue-jump passes on every other dispatch isn't really an issue.

I imagine that if you went for one day during the height of summer, the proliferation of Express Passes combined with the abysmal operations would seriously blight your day and your chances of getting on everything, despite there being barely any rides compared to similar-sized European parks.
 
On a typical summers day, the queue for the likes of Baco can reach upwards of 2 hours 30 minutes. I recall seeing at least one train every three being express only.

... I just wish all parks took the Disney or EP approach. Either everyone benefits OR it doesn't exist.

But I guess money talks. That said, the hotel express pass at PA is stupidly cheap.
 
PortAventura Park has 50 attractions which I wouldn't say is bad going, it has more than both Disney Parks combined, and thats not including the shows. I can't see how you can keep comparing it to another European Parks as it is in a completely different location. It's not a Park such as Efteling, Disneyland Park or Europa Park which you visit over 1-3 days. People go on holiday to PortAventura for 7-14 days. It's not a Park you need to complete in 1 day which I am sure you are aware of. They are two completely different holiday experiences.
 
Who in their right mind would go to PA for anything more than 2-3 days? You'd be bored out of your mind by day four.
 
It's just what people do, it's not like Disneyland Paris for example where you visit for 1-4 days. You go for one week or two weeks. Obviously theres also the Waterpark to consider as well as the shows. I'm pretty sure it has the most shows of any European Park? You just can't compare it to the others, they're two completely different experiences.
 
The argument I was making was the express pass situation. I couldn't care less about whether you spend 2 weeks in the park or 2 days.

There are a lot of people I know have been and swear by the express pass because it's so cheap and without it you'll be waiting an age in a stuffy cattle pen.
 
Even at EP, 5 days max is the most you need to do everything and have plenty of chill out time in peak season. If you have to spend TWO WHOLE WEEKS at a park, that tells you a lot about their throughputs.
 
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