Racism within social media

[Rick]

I think the most important reason we should understand the scale of the problem is because that should inform our approach to dealing with it. I've seen lots of the media response but little of the original content. One racist tweet is one too many, but the overall scale is hugely important.

I saw a report yesterday suggesting a not insignificant percentage of the offending content was posted from foreign IPs.

It's strange that we seemingly as a nation have glossed over the fact that an England team were two kicks of a ball away from being champions of Europe.

If the intent of the racists was to belittle the achievements of that team, it feels like they've won.

 

[monkeyboy]

If you can't take it, don't dish it!

It's called Karma

"Man behind racist slurs of England players complains he's now the one being abused"

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...xXQ5lgBjzZefsuRpaaQxPPQcjVmmh5oWPn30DKyFztHgQ

Agreed you should get as much back as you have dished out! But this is gutter press at it best, digging up old Facebook comments and mixing it up with current comments/news to make the story gel.


Context

The post was quickly picked up and shared across the site, including to a Black Lives Matter page,


What does that even mean lol


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[RoyJess]

The trouble with social media, it is full of trolls, regardless if it is racism, fat shaming, bullying, hate towards gay's, hate towards the disabled etc...

I personally don't support Black Lives Matter due to their extreme political views, but that is another subject which we have a thread dedicated to on here. However I'm not a racist. In balance, we have just a big problem in other areas as I've mentioned in my first sentence above other things that are not getting the press or airtime. I personally support the Stop Hate campaign which covers all areas of Hate Crime.

Many famous people get trolled all the time regardless of their ethnic background.

My wife and I often are on the receiving end of hate every time we go out due to my wife disability. But it is not everyone that is committing it. In reality it is a small handful of people, most people are good, but you don't remember the good people, but tend to remember the horrible ones.

How do we tackle hate?

It's not about what happens or who does or say's what, it is about how you deal with or react to it. The best way is not to react as this is what the troll is trying to achieve, they want a reaction, so don't give them what they want by reacting. When I'm out and about, I just simply have to put on the horse blinkers and go deaf to all the stares and comments that Jess gets. Sometimes we kill them with kindness by just simply saying to them, "You have a nice day" in a patronising voice.

Racism (along with all other forms of hate crime) is not acceptable, but is committed by a small percentage of the population. We will never stamp out hate 100%, but we can all strive to play our part by being nice to each other. Most people are good decent human beings.

Be Kind!
Stop Hate!

 

[Tim]

I was in Italy when the game was going on and as a result heard about this story from the other side.
It made me realise just how good a job we've done at suppressing rasist behaviour in Britain. It's apparently still quite common to hear racist chants during regional games over there. A few of the stories I heard would have absolutely got the person who started them arrested in the UK.
Of course it's still an issue here but the fact we do take it seriously is a good step in the right direction.

 

[Benzin]

Yeah places like Spain and Italy are still full of incidents. Can't remember what game it was (think in La Liga) where there was an incident and it was treated incredibly badly by the league.

However the increase of them over here cannot be ignored just because other countries are worse or some of the abuse comes from abroad. Ignoring the problems closer to home (or indeed the constant blaming of certain sections of our population from the higher ups) are what leads to this issues being so widespread in the first point.

 

[Rick]

@Benzin Totally get it ... but someone somewhere needs to provide the detail that sits below "the increase" and "being so widespread" or otherwise we go nowhere from here.

(Not suggesting that should be you).

 

[tayspru]

@Benzin Totally get it ... but someone somewhere needs to provide the detail that sits below "the increase" and "being so widespread" or otherwise we go nowhere from here.

(Not suggesting that should be you).

The increase isn’t an increase at all - there aren’t more racist people than before. The fact is people have always been racist but now they aren’t as afraid to air their views, for example being given carte-Blanche to boo football players for taking a stand against racism by *checks notes* the Prime Minister

 

[RoyJess]

I was brought up in the 70's and not only racism worse than today, it was also considered the norm. I've not seen those tweets regarding the footballers. Today the only racism I see, come from remarks by the elderly who seem to be stuck in their way's and views. I am offended and find it uncomfortable when I do here racist remarks, but it is very rare that I hear it.

I can see why taking the knee gets booed. Even though it is a stance against racism. It is also divisive and controversial as it is used by Black Lives Matter and some see it as a symbolism towards the extremist organisation. I personally condemn people booing the taking the knee.

I also feel that racism needs to be address with mutual respect. It doesn't help when the BAME community, burn our flags, defaced our statues and cenotaph. I've been called a white privilege on here before now. Racism comes from both sides. If we are all going to stop this, then we all need to start to get on with each other and respect each other views and cultures. We have a lot of division caused as a result of culture wars

Are we any different on here, aren't we sometimes racist when we post on here about family friendly days?

 

[monkeyboy]

I was brought up in the 70's and not only racism worse than today, it was also considered the norm. I've not seen those tweets regarding the footballers. Today the only racism I see, come from remarks by the elderly who seem to be stuck in their way's and views. I am offended and find it uncomfortable when I do here racist remarks, but it is very rare that I hear it.

I can see why taking the knee gets booed. Even though it is a stance against racism. It is also divisive and controversial as it is used by Black Lives Matter and some see it as a symbolism towards the extremist organisation. I personally condemn people booing the taking the knee.

I also feel that racism needs to be address with mutual respect. It doesn't help when the BAME community, burn our flags, defaced our statues and cenotaph. I've been called a white privilege on here before now. Racism comes from both sides. If we are all going to stop this, then we all need to start to get on with each other and respect each other views and cultures. We have a lot of division caused as a result of culture wars

Are we any different on here, aren't we sometimes racist when we post on here about family friendly days?

Agreed, if the footballers had a pr company, then taking the knee was not a good marketing choice (in my opinion)
Like Roy says it has other meanings all shipped over from the USA after George flyod.
At that time no fans were in the stadiums and the players made that decision to take the knee.

We already have a number of anti racists campaigns in football, I think the fans just don’t like the links to USA BLM organization.

They should have come up with their own sign of respect, I don’t no, linking arms getting the crowd to sing” stand up if you have racism” or what ever.
Or do something for the kick it out campaign.

Something we can all join in on, not just an imported gesture which has many connotations (defund the police, riots in USA etc)

Yes Mings maybe kneeling for the right reasons and what he feels is good, but trying to get that message over to the common football fan who just want to watch the game maybe slightly harder.

I hope we are in this country a little more sensible and understanding.


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[Benzin]

Today the only racism I see, come from remarks by the elderly who seem to be stuck in their way's and views.

Unfortunately this is just factually wrong. A group of under 18s who play for Portsmouth had a group chat leaked online with various racial slurs/insults. To say its solely limited to the older generation who are "set in their ways" is just a variant of shrugging shoulders and thinking its how it used to be. You "used" to be able to slap female staff on the arse for example.

I can see why taking the knee gets booed. Even though it is a stance against racism. It is also divisive and controversial as it is used by Black Lives Matter and some see it as a symbolism towards the extremist organisation. I personally condemn people booing the taking the knee.

It's a weird thing for me as originally the "taking the knee" was actually started by a NFL player who's name I cant spell off top of my head. That he was completely ostracised by the sport proves the different in terms of British vs American culture that views racism. That was then adopted as a general symbol for the following marches.

Personally I think it's weird take from some that because BLM is Marxist (or at least a part of it is) that we should boo players for supporting a cause which a large number of them came from in terms of poor poverty and systemic racism. The whole "defund the police" line that came across from America doesn't mean the same thing here either, as they've been defunded enough by the government. But its an easy line for the red tops to paint the marches as something anti-British etc for cheap points.

I also feel that racism needs to be address with mutual respect. It doesn't help when the BAME community, burn our flags, defaced our statues and cenotaph. I've been called a white privilege on here before now. Racism comes from both sides. If we are all going to stop this, then we all need to start to get on with each other and respect each other views and cultures. We have a lot of division caused as a result of culture wars.

Who stoke the fire on the culture wars? Was there much reaction to when Chelsea fans defaced the Churchill statue? There were plenty of white allies in the marches who also partook in defacing or throwing a statue in a river. Same for those who supported the marches in America. Why do you solely blame the BAME community for those incidents when it could've been literally anyone (either involved in the march or someone who in order to sow such division and opposition to the reasons behind the marches/protests).

There is such a thing as white privilege. Same for cis male privilege. The odds are stacked far more in my favour than my partner who's disabled or for people who grew up in the flats on my childhood street. It's the way the world has been built for years, and it's being threatened by those willing to stand up for their beliefs and to be a presence for those who have been used and abused for political gain for years.


At the end of the day the reason the players are taking the knee was to raise awareness of the continuing racial abuse and hatred many of them were suffering from. If someone wishes to boo an anti-racism gesture because of some link to the BLM movement ("BuT aLl LiVeS mAtTeR!") then the simple thing is that person is being anti anti-racist. That simple, and sadly predictable.

 

[RoyJess]

@Benzin , I think you should re-read my post and try and see that it was a neutral post looking at it from both sides. The problem that I have with the BLM movement, either we have to agree with them on everything or if we don't then we are labelled racist. I don't like to succumb to dictatorship.

There is such a thing as white privilege.

The fact that I've been called a white privilege on this forum because of the colour of my skin is like "the pot calling the kettle black"

 

[Benzin]

@Benzin , I think you should re-read my post and try and see that it was a neutral post looking at it from both sides. The problem that I have with the BLM movement, either we have to agree with them on everything or if we don't then we are labelled racist. I don't like to succumb to dictatorship.

The fact that I've been called a white privilege on this forum because of the colour of my skin is like "the pot calling the kettle black"

Oh I understood it was a fairly balanced piece, but at the same time I feel some of the issues we see today are you result of trying to "appease" to having a balanced view point. Plus you're having a reasoned discussion so I did pick on you a little bit (but some of the things you said needed to have an argument against, particularly the "only old people are racist" one).

I believe that the appeasement of balanced views in some cases has leaded to the rise of anti-vax and conspiracy theories. Which also isn't helped by the way in which social media algorithms push these things towards a person (you watch one thing on YouTube then all of a sudden your recommendations list is full of that topic, its insanity).

What parts of BLM do people disagree with? Best list of their targets I could find was on here (https://blacklivesmatter.uk/about-us/what-we-are-doing) though with the main things being pushed being things like "defund the police", which wouldn't work in the same way as it would in America, but is an easy attack for right wing papers to push their own propaganda.

In terms of the way the protests ended, it often feels like certain kinds cannot really win. Taking the knee in football has been called "gesture politics" by the government (who then say how appalled they were that these players were then racially abused), but when the protests last year went into overdrive and resulted in a statue being thrown into a river they're told they should protest peacefully. Let's be honest history tells us that no cause that was fought for ever ended peacefully.

Not sure who's called you on having white privilege (unless you mean my mention of it being a thing that exists?), so bit confused on your point on it. Until racial equality becomes a thing there will always be privilege for a certain few. Half of privilege these days is where you were born and who birthed you.

A good public example of this is the complete lack of action towards Grenfell Tower and similar buildings still having that particular cladding on them. Another point to be considered is the police response to the BLM marches last year, the women's march earlier this year and then their response to the football "celebrations".

Unfortunately privilege is so ingrained in life. But when the response of the Astrazeneca blood clots was such even though the likelihood of them is higher in the pill for women its obvious to a degree that things sometimes only matter when a particular group are affected. The lack of facilities to those who do suffer (from whatever it is, inequality, poverty, mental health or disabilities) is completely shocking when you actually scratch into it all.

 

[tayspru]

White privilege literally only means your life isn’t routinely made worse *because* you are white. You can still be from a poor background or have poor upbringing, but still be treated better than a black person with the same background. It doesn’t mean your life is easy, it means the colour of your skin doesn’t routinely make it harder. Same for cisgender privilege and straight privilege

 

[RoyJess]

@Benzin either I have not made my original post clear or you have misconstrued it. So I'm just going to clarify

Plus you're having a reasoned discussion so I did pick on you a little bit (but some of the things you said needed to have an argument against, particularly the "only old people are racist" one).

My original post regarding this was purely based on my own personal day to day experience with racism. I don't do twitter and I'm not into football. I do have Facebook, but I only have a select number of friends with security settings, so I don't come across all the troll post from people that I don't know.

Of course there will be racism coming from all age groups, but I've not in recent few decades have personally heard any racism remarks coming from my acquaintances that are younger than me.

I'm not going to get into a discussion about BLM as we have another thread on here for that. I personally support Stop Hate campaign and the Kick It Out, that is my prerogative.

With regards to defunding the police, you could argue that the police are actually under funded. Extra funding could go a long way to help the police to police crime including women's safety as talked about on here on another thread.

I was called a white privilege on here last year. It was the very first time that I heard the phrase. I did report it and the post was removed. The point that I was making is that racism comes from all sides what ever colour of your skin or ethnics. Over the last year, I felt that our culture and ways of life were under attack. There seem to be a lot of hate towards our British culture.

In this country we do have stringent laws regarding equality and discrimination. If you feel that you are unfairly treated, then you can report this to either the police or an independent organisation. If you feel that the police are doing nothing or are not listening to you, you can always take up a private case by going to a solicitor. However, in law, the onus is on your to provide substantial evidence.

The police them selves are not above the law and have to follow procedures. They themselves can be independently investigated.

 

[Benzin]

I think a lot of the "hate" of British culture has come from a changing of ideals, particularly among the young community. Factor in the increased levels of open racism (due to recent policy changes and a VERY openly racist government, the PM in particular) there's obviously going to be backlash.

Does British culture mean food banks and the government essentially inciting racial hatred by telling footballers to keep out of politics (its a democracy so everyone is allowed to be involved) and many using such words as submit when certain people snap back at those in charge when they've had enough.

This links into particular communities feeling attacked. I think you're confusing me with someone who agrees with the "defund the police" viewpoint. I've not only said that the government have already done a good job of it, but also it wouldn't work over here due to the differences in how we operate. More funding is needed across all the services, however years of austerity have lead to the poorer getting poorer whilst the rich jet off to space.

The police recently have been very problematic. Their response to the murder by one of their own where they closed ranks in defence then proceeded to swan into the vigil was absolutely appalling. Some of them certainly think themselves above the law and behave as such. Otherwise why else would they fabricate a story about football fans with weapons (that was eventually proven false by a group of fans) to justify their poor policing practices then the bloke in charge gets a promotion? Some people do not feel safe going to the police and I bet even more feel that taking a case to them won't get anywhere.

Last year my partner did take up a case about disabled discrimination. The company in question eventually paid out but the way they tried to get out of it was again, appalling. It's any wonder so few people bother to take things further in these situations. Then when you add in PIP where a person after a phone interview states she is not disabled it's any wonder that people are upset and angry with the state of the country.

The main problem is that the last decade of austerity has pushed a number of people and communities to the brink. Yet when there is any push back its framed in such a way that its the fault of them themselves. Phrases like "the woke brigade" or "so much for the tolerant left" have essentially left people stuck in a situation where standing up for basic human rights like not letting children go hungry is seen as a negative? All the while we have a 'new' channel launched in GBNews (an absolute failure in of itself) that attacks the "metropolitan elite" and "gives a voice for the voiceless" (it now has the rarely heard from Farage on prime time).

Unfortunately until those from the left realise that they need to put their heads together I can only see a Tory government for the foreseeable future. And things will get worse for those already on the edge.

 

[SirDossa]

Such an openly racist government that it has the most diverse backbench in living memory..good one!

Opposing racism was once a moral instinct that had near universal UK support. But in now making it an issue of political allegiance with all the tribalism and alienation that brings, taking the knee has arguably fractured that support for the first time in decades.

 

[Benzin]

Such an openly racist government that it has the most diverse backbench in living memory..good one!

"I can't be racist, I have black friends"

Given the current incumbent PM has gone on record about "watermelon smiles", "picannies" and describing women wearing a hijab as "letterboxes", I'm quite happy in my thought process of calling him (and the other lackies that follow his beck and call) racists.

As an aside, Labour have their problems as well. Just so I can actually show balance in my thoughts as I'm not tied to a particular party.

Let alone them standing by and shrugging their shoulders at the booing at taking the knee. But I guess footballers showing they're anti-racist isn't moral instinct? I think telling people they can only protest in a particular fashion is far more problematic and anti-democratic.

As long as its not endangering lives people can protest whatever they like in my opinion. The idiots yesterday being anti-lockdown (on FREEDOM day) are fair more dangerous in thought in my opinion.

 

[monkeyboy]

Benzin
From you last to posts. I’m sure you’ve been on a march or two??


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[Benzin]

Benzin
From you last to posts. I’m sure you’ve been on a march or two??


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Nope, fair old trek to London these days for majority of the big marches. Also limited by having a disabled partner.

Not that being present at a march is the only way to support various causes.

 

[Plastic Person]

Opposing racism was once a moral instinct that had near universal UK support. But in now making it an issue of political allegiance with all the tribalism and alienation that brings, taking the knee has arguably fractured that support for the first time in decades.

Arguably so, but that's not the fault of the POC players taking the knee, nor their teammates and friends doing so out of solidarity. It only feels like support is being fractured because the conversation about how racism manifests is changing in the mainstream from the sort of visceral, seventies racism that has been described by older members in this thread, to the more insidious and structural forms it takes, that a lot of people, especially in government, seem to want to doubt or deny. Whether that's because it feels too vague or ephemeral, or they just have a fixed story in their head and can't be bothered making themselves vulnerable enough to consider somebody else's perspective, who knows.

I will say, it is unexpected to see the idea and term of 'race', something that has been steadily dissolved since WW2, re-enter public discourse, and I think that can probably be confusing to a lot of people who genuinely don't go out of their way to be racist but who haven't clocked quite how dire things continue to be for some sectors of society.