Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

[BarryZola]

You could actually end up with the situation where the RAP queues stay almost as busy as they were by the 2023 season but now they'll be turning away extra people completely. That still wouldn't help the overall situation, plus you'd have annoyed people who wouldn't be able to access at all because the numbers had been capped for any given day. And if they do cap numbers in a meaningful way that means that RAP queues become short, then it becomes a real free-for-all battle between people to get their booking in before other needy people. Disappointment abounds whatever happens, unless they deal with the core issue of giving out RAP passes too freely.

 

[ScottishChris]

The biggest problem with any disability scheme is that nobody wants to hinder a person who needs additional support - be it the Nimbus system, the Blue Badge, Mobility, PIP or whatever. As a result people are not challenged to a high degree... whing, in my opinion, is morally the right thing to do. The sad thing is that because we are all trusting that people have the morals not to abuse the system a notable number do. A key statistic that I feel that proves this is that 4.2% of the population hold a blue badge. That is more than 1 in 25 of everyone... that is just a crazy statistic.

Morally it should be the case (in my opinion) that help is provided to those who need it without much requirement to prove they need it. The problem with this is that you will always have people who are disgusting enough to 'steal' help from those who rightfully need it. I feel that we need the ability to make more of an example of such people.

I honestly don't know what the answer is for theme parks, but I do think the step taken by Towers is one that was needed. What I was seeing and hearing from staff regarding the old RAP system did sound as if it was being overly abused.

 

[Benjsh]

If you don't challenge it then obviously people will just exploit it.

If ADHD isn't the main reason for this pass being issued then I'd be astonished. We all know its the reason the pass no longer works as it's intended to. They should have made people bring medical proof with them. No proof = no pass and there's no exceptions under any circumstances. The issue with this is it is a difficult position to be in as a young adult behind the counter with a parent swearing at you because they haven't brought the medical forms to prove so I can see why they just issue them out. It saves complaints and time.

I'd actually like to see ADHD taken off the list personally but I know there's some on here who disagree with me and that's fine.

 

[Bowser]

It's very difficult and there is no "right" answer.

For me you have a distinction between people where RAP makes the day easier and RAP makes the day possible, so in that sense i'd agree with @Benjsh.

I wonder if a tiered system would work. That's what they use at DLP, though i'm not sure how it works in reality.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

it was blue badge etc so no specialist knowledge was required beyond checking the name on the application matched the documentation.

Not everyone who qualifies for a RAP would qualify for a Blue Badge, the bar was a bit too high and some of the proof required could be considered a bit invasive to people who aren't comfortable with talking about why they would need a RAP. For those unfamiliar, this is the Proof of Disability information required by Royal Greenwich council for a Blue Badge:

Proof of disability​

For proof of disability, you can provide any of the following:​

• all pages of your of award letter for Disability Living Allowance or Personal Independence Payment - must be dated within last 12 months, with at least three months remaining on the award
• evidence of receipt of Personal Independence Payment - must be dated within last 12 months, with at least three months remaining on the award
• evidence of receipt of War Pensioners Supplement or Armed Forces Compensation Scheme
• certificate of visual impairment (or registration card if you're registered with the Council's Sensory Service)
• if you don't receive any benefits, we'll accept any medical report which supports your application - must be dated within last 12 months"

The Nimbus system puts the conversation in the hands of professionally trained and empathetic decision makers. The bar isn't as high to prove validity of the claim, because it's designed to be welcoming and non-invasive. No one wants to feel as though they're having to justify themselves to a faceless entity, the horror stories of people arguing with DWP for work capability springs to mind. It's stressful for people to do. Nimbus also creates a single point of contact for the leisure industry as a whole. You don't need to apply to Merlin and Drayton and TicketFactory separately, they all recognise the Nimbus card.

If anything, if the examples given on this page are representative then the qualifications for RAP have actually been lowered meaning not only will there be more holders but they will have longer validity on their passes too.

I'm not sure why this is a problem. The idea is to be more inclusive, to enable and recognise people who might find it difficult or daunting to visit a theme park in the first place, to make sure that they get access; this needs to be easy, simple and sensitive.

There may be more holders through the Nimbus system, but that also shouldn't be an issue, after all they've been judged to have a legitimate need to have a card.

Or, and I really hope you're not going down this route, are you suggesting that some people with access issues are more worthy than others for the card?

 

[Bowser]

Not everyone who qualifies for a RAP would qualify for a Blue Badge, the bar was a bit too high and some of the proof required could be considered a bit invasive to people who aren't comfortable with talking about why they would need a RAP. For those unfamiliar, this is the Proof of Disability information required by Royal Greenwich council for a Blue Badge:

Proof of disability​

For proof of disability, you can provide any of the following:​

• all pages of your of award letter for Disability Living Allowance or Personal Independence Payment - must be dated within last 12 months, with at least three months remaining on the award
• evidence of receipt of Personal Independence Payment - must be dated within last 12 months, with at least three months remaining on the award
• evidence of receipt of War Pensioners Supplement or Armed Forces Compensation Scheme
• certificate of visual impairment (or registration card if you're registered with the Council's Sensory Service)
• if you don't receive any benefits, we'll accept any medical report which supports your application - must be dated within last 12 months"

The Nimbus system puts the conversation in the hands of professionally trained and empathetic decision makers. The bar isn't as high to prove validity of the claim, because it's designed to be welcoming and non-invasive. No one wants to feel as though they're having to justify themselves to a faceless entity, the horror stories of people arguing with DWP for work capability springs to mind. It's stressful for people to do. Nimbus also creates a single point of contact for the leisure industry as a whole. You don't need to apply to Merlin and Drayton and TicketFactory separately, they all recognise the Nimbus card.


I'm not sure why this is a problem. The idea is to be more inclusive, to enable and recognise people who might find it difficult or daunting to visit a theme park in the first place, to make sure that they get access; this needs to be easy, simple and sensitive.

There may be more holders through the Nimbus system, but that also shouldn't be an issue, after all they've been judged to have a legitimate need to have a card.

Or, and I really hope you're not going down this route, are you suggesting that some people with access issues are more worthy than others for the card?

The old scheme had other options beyond a Blue Badge, that's why i said "etc" next to it.

It's not about being "worthy". The issue with there being more holders is it makes the system redundant (eg. we have someone a few posts above who is still unable to visit the parks and others conceding unnecessary eligibility). It then only becomes effective if there are other measures in place, which is what they are hopefully implementing.

Also worth pointing out the Nimbus card has multiple uses outside of theme parks, so this is specifically about eligibility for the queuing icon to ensure that it achieves its purpose at the locations adopting it.

It may be unpalatable to you but there is clearly a distinction between those who cannot access a theme park without the assistance of a scheme such as RAP and those who can. It's not for me to determine who they are but the fact is the system is being abused and the most vulnerable are those who suffer.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

The old scheme had other options beyond a Blue Badge, that's why i said "etc" next to it.

It's not about being "worthy". The issue with there being more holders is it makes the system redundant (eg. we have someone a few posts above who is still unable to visit the parks and others conceding unnecessary eligibility). It then only becomes effective if there are other measures in place, which is what they are hopefully implementing.

Also worth pointing out the Nimbus card has multiple uses outside of theme parks, so this is specifically about eligibility for the queuing icon to ensure that it achieves its purpose at the locations adopting it.

It may be unpalatable to you but there is clearly a distinction between those who cannot access a theme park without the assistance of a scheme such as RAP and those who can. It's not for me to determine who they are but the fact is the system is being abused and the most vulnerable are those who suffer.

And this is precisely why the decisions are farmed out to a qualified third party organisation, who have recognised experience in the area.

 

[Bowser]

And this is precisely why the decisions are farmed out to a qualified third party organisation, who have recognised experience in the area.

We're going round in circles now.

The issue with RAP is the numbers are rendering the system unusable for those who need it most and the system is being taken advantage of. Increasing eligibility was only going to exacerbate things, so if the intention was to improve functionality then it was a failure, which the rapid move to a new system would indicate is the case.

If the intention was primarily to improve inclusivity then the move has likely succeeded.

I don't think there's any need to make personal implications to one another's character when discussing this, presumably everyone would like a system that works, particularly for those who most need it.

 

[Dave]

The sad fact is a small but significant number of people abuse RAP, and that then makes the system unusable for those that need it (point of proof, 1hr RAP queue for Wickerman after fireworks, you literally saw people with disabilities turning away as the RAP queue was so long).

We don’t take my sister in law to Towers anymore as she just wouldn’t cope with the RAP queue (you can’t even explain the situation to her, she will just not tolerate it).

It’s a difficult situation for the parks as you want to be inclusive for everyone but the current system is definitely inconvenient for people who don’t need RAP, but it’s actually becoming intolerable for those that genuinely need it as well so no one is happy except the abusers of the system.

 

[Bowser]

point of proof, 1hr RAP queue for Wickerman after fireworks, you literally saw people with disabilities turning away as the RAP queue was so long

Wicker Man highlights the problems more than any ride as you have the RAP queue running parallel to the FastTrack, the latter of which is typically a fraction of the length of the RAP. And that's a ride with pretty good operations, throughput and a pre-show.

 

[Squiggs]

A key statistic that I feel that proves this is that 4.2% of the population hold a blue badge. That is more than 1 in 25 of everyone... that is just a crazy statistic.

Just to pick this up, I'm not sure if that is a crazy statistic at all. By my (very rough) calculation, 4.2% would more or less represent the number of people in the UK who have mobility issues and a car.

 

[Skyscraper]

From the MAP disability Facebook group, what appears to be a canopy is being constructed over the Wicker Man RAP queue and part of the main queue too;

 

[Blackhole_Sun]

From the MAP disability Facebook group, what appears to be a canopy is being constructed over the Wicker Man RAP queue and part of the main queue too;

It’s OK for everyone else to get wet waiting then?

Seems pointless?

 

[Dave]

From the MAP disability Facebook group, what appears to be a canopy is being constructed over the Wicker Man RAP queue and part of the main queue too;

So the RAP users who can’t tolerate confined spaces are going to war with RAP users who need protection from adverse weather.

Okaaaay

 

[Benzin]

Is the queue THAT narrow? Can fit a wider than average wheelchair in it fairly easily.

 

[Bowser]

It’s OK for everyone else to get wet waiting then?

Seems pointless?

Bit of shade at least potentially. The sun does beat down on that spot, on the few days it's sunny. Hopefully doesn't obstruct the excellent views from that location.

 

[Bowser]

Have posted in the relevant Annual Pass thread but the email this morning indicates they are capping numbers on that regardless of general admission availability which is interesting and relevant to RAP numbers as now means you'll need to find availability on two fronts if you're a MAP.

 

[Skyscraper]

From the MAP Facebook group, more info about some of the incoming changes;



So there's not really a "cap" as such then.

 

[John]

So they'll now need 2 staff members per ride just to manage RAP. Given their recruitment difficulties I don't see this ending well

 

[Bowser]

So they'll now need 2 staff members per ride just to manage RAP. Given their recruitment difficulties I don't see this ending well

Yeah i just don't see how this will change anything. In fact if anything it's going to increase queues (because people will now potentially be given shorter wait times before their next ride) which for many people is the opposite of the purpose of RAP.

Realistically at each park there are only a handful of rides that are problematic (eg. Vampire and WickerMan) so presumably only these rides would actually have the extra attendant. I wonder if these poor souls will also be tasked with the enforcement of the RAP identification/numbers.

I do wonder if those comments posted were specific to AT too. Chessington have been closing RAP queues via the app when they get busy for at least a year already.

Really i think they'll need to start implementing virtual queues for all the big rides.