Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

[Bowser]

I look forward to hearing it If I can implement it at home with a Phillips SmartHub and an app - nothing else (inc auto connection to Alexa etc) it can't be rocket science. Sensors just connect to the park WiFi and are powered by 5v so no issue running LV around the queue lines.

I have done a bit of programming with the SmartThings API, and it really is simple to probe/control devices if you want to do something more bespoke.

But no park anywhere operates this system afaik?

 

[Smiley]

The problem is that you can't give accurate times for the main queue anymore, whilst you have two other queues which take priority. It's entirely up at the merge host's discretion, as to the makeup of the queue after the dispatch.

Well of course if the host had accurate data on queue lengths they could merge accordingly (or most likely app data would tell them when/how to merge). I'm sure they already use WiFi data to track people around the park (as they move from one WiFi "cell" to the next)

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Well of course if the host had accurate data on queue lengths they could merge accordingly (or most likely app data would tell them when/how to merge). I'm sure they already use WiFi data to track people around the park (as they move from one WiFi "cell" to the next)

This doesn't quite solve the problem though. If you join a queue advertised at 40 mins, it has a stoppage of 10 mins, during which Fastrack and RAP build up, no matter how many sensors you've got your queue estimate will be out.

Even without a stoppage, the main queue time will always be dependent on the unpredictable fluctuating demand of the priority queues.

 

[Benzin]

As mentioned, there are just too many variables for a basic sensor system to work.

Queue times are always rough estimates. Ride staff can have an idea of the time it takes from certain points but when I worked at Chessie it wasn't that regular to have a full RAP or Fastrack queue on half the rides. So was a lot easier then compared to now.

And yes on occasion I did overinflate the Tiny Truckers queuetime. But a full queue of that was at least 45 minutes and when it spilled into the main path anarchy reigned.

Just feels like over engineering for what is quite a simple situation.

 

[Islander]

I always love the posts along the lines of "oh it would be so simple to do, just put in cheap sensors from Amazon etc. etc. etc".

If it were that simple, you can be certain it would have been done years ago, as the cost vs benefit would have been an absolute no-brainer.

I believe Merlin have experimented with various automatic systems over the years (some linked to the park apps and Bluetooth beacons, some based on mobile signals much like shopping malls and airports use to measure people flows, some based on computer vision), but given none have 'stuck' it can be assumed that they were not reliable or accurate.

 

[Bowser]

Queue times are always rough estimates. Ride staff can have an idea of the time it takes from certain points but when I worked at Chessie it wasn't that regular to have a full RAP or Fastrack queue on half the rides. So was a lot easier then compared to now

If merge hosts had a consistent policy this could be accommodated in the variables of an estimate.

Let’s face it, it’s very rare that any queue line will be empty so you’re working from a full train each cycle with a set number from each queue. Eg 4 RAP, 4 FT, 16 main queue and you work the time back from there with an algorithm. Worst case one of the lines is empty and you’ve slightly over estimated the main queue which is preferable to underestimating.

If a ride goes down then merge host follows policy of clearing it, which the algorithm incorporates along with the downtime.

Like I said, presumably there’s a reason no known park has used the sensor aspect but in reality it’s no different to an entrance host with a clicker.

Alas I think we are deviating from the thread topic somewhat!

To get back on track it’s a shame the parks can’t or won’t indicate RAP wait times. The digital parks simply closing a queue with no indication when it will be available beyond constant refreshing isn’t ideal.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Let’s face it, it’s very rare that any queue line will be empty so you’re working from a full train each cycle with a set number from each queue. Eg 4 RAP, 4 FT, 16 main queue and you work the time back from there with an algorithm.

You have a group of 3, followed by a group of 4, followed by a 5, and then a 2 waiting in RAP. Fastrack are a group of 5, followed by a 6, followed by a 2, followed by a 1. Main queue are, well they're in a bunch of different group sizes too.

Theoretically, on paper, it could seem like an easy problem to solve. It's only when you start digging into the realities of it that it's not. Especially as you have no idea of what the group sizes are when they enter the queue. If multiple groups enter at the same time, as is often the case, you have no idea what the breakdown of that supergroup is either.

 

[Bowser]

Has anyone used RAP this week since the diabolical ride availability has hit? Bit worried the queues are going to be back to 2023 VIBES…

 

[John]

I haven't but put it this way - within 10 minutes of opening, Rita had a posted queue time of 2hrs. It's a safe bet large numbers of FT and RAP users descended on it too. Then it broke again.

 

[Bowser]

Just watching a bit of the TPWW review of the new Danse Macabre ride at Efteling and one of the reviewers (Charlotte) had a back injury so couldn't go on. However they've recreated a scaled down version of the ride where you sit in the same seats, surrounded by screens with the music and lighting effects and POV footage of the actual ride just without the physical movement! It sounds like an incredible effort for achieving accessibility on the part of Efteling, very impressive.

 

[Benzin]

Sounds a bit more substantial than the VR on Dreamflight and whatever they do on Villa Volta.

Also queue is fully accessible. Which am interested in testing out.

 

[imanautie]

Just watching a bit of the TPWW review of the new Danse Macabre ride at Efteling and one of the reviewers (Charlotte) had a back injury so couldn't go on. However they've recreated a scaled down version of the ride where you sit in the same seats, surrounded by screens with the music and lighting effects and POV footage of the actual ride just without the physical movement! It sounds like an incredible effort for achieving accessibility on the part of Efteling, very impressive.

They've got a similar thing at portaventura for their new ride

 

[Skyscraper]

Sounds a bit more substantial than the VR on Dreamflight and whatever they do on Villa Volta.

Also queue is fully accessible. Which am interested in testing out.

A lot of the rides at Efteling have an accessible queue line, which is great. Most of them, in fact!

Discover the park - Visiting Efteling with a disability - Efteling

View all the information about the accessibility of the attractions and toilets, entrance through the wheelchair access, accessibility for assistance or guide dogs and so on.

www.efteling.com

 

[Benzin]

Most of those aren't "proper" attractions though. Vogel Rok you still skip the entire indoor queueline. Joris was different last visit so would be nice if that's been changed as was a crap design.

Between Sirocco (updated Teacups) and Danse Macabre there's clearly an aim to make new attractions have an accessible queueline within reason. Symbolica didn't follow that.

 

[Bowser]

Most of those aren't "proper" attractions though. Vogel Rok you still skip the entire indoor queueline. Joris was different last visit so would be nice if that's been changed as was a crap design.

Joris you enter via a dedicated queue shortly after entering the main queue, there's a waiting area with seating and a parasol.

Skipping the Vogel Rok queue area is no bad thing!

Symbolica didn't follow that.

It's a shame it skips the pre-show but presumably the only way to have made that viable would have been to install an elevator (which isn't unreasonable).

 

[Themeparksandy1981]

Staff last Sunday was explaining that every ride cycle they let in 6 fast track/rap guests per train/ride circle with the rest coming from the main queue.

 

[AltonLover123]

Staff last Sunday was explaining that every ride cycle they let in 6 fast track/rap guests per train/ride circle with the rest coming from the main queue.

It depends entirely what ride and which category of RAP you hold.

Im pretty sure if you’re a yellow card holder most rides have no limit on how many can be on each train/cycle whereas red is limited due to how you would be evacuated such a breakdown occur.

That said, outside of those restrictions its ride hosts/operators discretion how many of each they let through.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Same proportion regardless of the ride's capacity? Yeah, that makes Merlin Sense (TM).

 

[Bowser]

Im pretty sure if you’re a yellow card holder most rides have no limit on how many can be on each train/cycle whereas red is limited due to how you would be evacuated such a breakdown occur

How is this distinguished considering across the Merlin parks they rarely ask to see your card and if they do it’s often at an irrelevant place like the ride entrance?

Surely that only applies on rides where RAP are seated in a specific area regardless of type (eg Vampire at Chessington always back rows)?

 

[James]

It depends entirely what ride and which category of RAP you hold.

Im pretty sure if you’re a yellow card holder most rides have no limit on how many can be on each train/cycle whereas red is limited due to how you would be evacuated such a breakdown occur.

That said, outside of those restrictions its ride hosts/operators discretion how many of each they let through.

They were limiting Fastrack/RAP at merge points regardless of the yellow/red limit. Merge hosts were instructed by their supervisors/managers to limit the number of RAP/Fastrack guests they let through, as to not detriment to the main queues and to ensure all queue lines moved at some pace. This was the case on Sunday/Monday/Tuesday at least during the reliability issues seen on park.

Same proportion regardless of the ride's capacity? Yeah, that makes Merlin Sense (TM).

I believe the cap varied per ride but it was a low number on most last week simply due to rides shutting left right and centre and all queues being rammed.