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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

MrTowers said:
Visiting Thorpe park last year and paying for fast track on Hyperia I found myself queuing with several physically disabled guests in wheelchairs. Now I imagine that they couldn't get RAP for the day or the RAP queue was so big they had decided to pay the £20. The fast track queue took over an hour to get onto the ride as it was only running 1 train and I would imagine RAP was similar.
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RAP for Hyperia, last year, was single use. You were allowed to use it once, but you didn't get a time out. Effectively limiting RAP guests to one ride on Hyperia, unless they queued with everyone else, or purchased Fastrack. I would imagine that this is what happened on the occasion you visited.
 
MrTowers said:
The parks needs to limit RAP to one accompanying guest or carer. Then have the ability for groups to join together once the non-RAP guests get to the front. This would vastly reduce the amount of people in the RAP line, and I would guess allow them to issue more RAP for each day.
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Reuniting people at the point of boarding would be incredibly difficult to co-ordinate and would result in even longer waiting times for everyone. It would also discriminate against some groups who would be unable to access such a system if separation isn't viable.

I've not been to any of the Merlin parks this year besides Legoland but beyond the difficulty obtaining a slot in the first place i was under the impression the digital systems were working as well as could be expected. If the capacities and time outs are being adhered to there's no reason the card systems shouldn't be working too though they remain vulnerable to fraud and error.
 
Benzin said:
Shame to get such a "benefit" you need to have to deal with living with a disability for your life. Where for some the only way to comfortably visit these places is by using a wheelchair.
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I didn't say anything like that - I was suggesting ways to make it better for RAP users, and at the same time make it "fair" so that everyone is treated equal. Unfortunately some people abuse it, to the detriment of all.

FYI, my Dad can claim RAP. I can claim RAP. Neither of us do - it would be morally wrong since we can manage around parks. So solve the issue where everyone is treated equally and no-one gets a "free FP".
 
It's not 'free Fastrack' though. That RAP user still has to 'virtually' queue. Sure, they can grab some food, have a wander around, but they should still not be getting any quicker on the ride compared to someone in the main queue. I get that it is sometimes abused and staff let RAP users on quicker, but I would argue that's a fault on Towers' part, by not training staff/giving them proper support, and having a paper system in place. It's not the RAP user's fault.

It's a difficult one with people accompanying RAP users. At the moment, the limit is three additional people. So, if you have 4 RAP users, that could translate to 16 people in the queue (4 RAP users with three guests each). It's easy to see how, on busy days, the RAP queues can appear a bit chaotic. I don't think they could get away with lowering the numbers, as it would potentially alienate families.
 
And where did the perception of "free Fastrack" come from? Online groups looking to take advantage.

Barely anyone used it back in 2009. Then presumably because so few staff members tended to fill in the cards properly it escalated to the current mess. I usually ended up explaining the then RAP system to guests because GS either didn't bother or did it poorly. Not that it's really changed since then bar was only applied onto the big 6 rides at Chessie.

And if they change anything to help tackle it a vocal mob come for them. Like when the pre-book system was announced (and Paultons have taken some flack for the removal of free carer tickets this season too), and usually the most vocal in those cases are the ones abusing the system. Or the ones you see shouting at staff.

Wouldn't it be grand if everyone could choose that they don't need RAP? White knighting doesn't help and is rather condescending to those who require it and can't pick and choose when it applies to them.
 
It all comes down to numbers. Abuse is irrelevant when it's a handful of people using the system because it makes basically no difference to anyone else.

If (say) a third of guests are using the system at any given time and by doing so can get on 50% more rides than someone not using it, then there's a problem.
 
Bowser said:
It becomes a free FastTrack when people who can otherwise queue use it. For example, turn up, walk on Nemesis, get a 60 minute timeout so join main queue for Galactica, then walk on next ride and repeat.
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There isn't going to be a perfect system, and I appreciate you're not suggesting that there is one. It could also be considered free FastTrack when more than one member of your group has RAP and you can cycle them.
 
I don’t think there’s really any foolproof way to prevent abuse, to some extent. Filling the cards in correctly would go some way, but the option to use a main queue whilst simultaneously “waiting” in an RAP queue will always be there, and I don’t really see how you can get rid of it without micromanaging RAP users to a demeaning degree or doing something overly complicated.
 
John said:
It all comes down to numbers. Abuse is irrelevant when it's a handful of people using the system because it makes basically no difference to anyone else.
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Partly yes but as i've mentioned, this is seemingly an almost exclusively Merlin problem due to poor operations. When you have parks that regularly have the majority of their main attractions facing 60+ minute queues and/or breaking down unfortunately people are going to take advantage of an opportunity to bypass that. And now the genie is out of the bottle in that regard.

We had RAP at Efteling but the operations were so good we mostly didn't need to use it as could physically access the main queues and so got to enjoy the themed entrances they have created on many rides too which was a nice bonus.

But again, whilst the last few years were problematic, my impression is things are a lot better now due to the capacity, which is the only viable solution without dramatically improving ride availability (the preferred solution).
 
Bowser said:
Partly yes but as i've mentioned, this is seemingly an almost exclusively Merlin problem due to poor operations. When you have parks that regularly have the majority of their main attractions facing 60+ minute queues and/or breaking down unfortunately people are going to take advantage of an opportunity to bypass that. And now the genie is out of the bottle in that regard.

We had RAP at Efteling but the operations were so good we mostly didn't need to use it as could physically access the main queues and so got to enjoy the themed entrances they have created on many rides too which was a nice bonus.

But again, whilst the last few years were problematic, my impression is things are a lot better now due to the capacity, which is the only viable solution without dramatically improving ride availability (the preferred solution).
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Merlin are not necessarily an outlier in terms of long queues and poor ride availability, though. I would argue plenty of parks have worse operations and/or queue times than Merlin, yet don’t struggle nearly as much with RAP.

I don’t think operations are the sole factor. They may be a factor, but I wouldn’t think they’re the only factor, or even a particularly principal one.
 
Matt N said:
Merlin are not necessarily an outlier in terms of long queues and poor ride availability, though. I would argue plenty of parks have worse operations and/or queue times than Merlin, yet don’t struggle nearly as much with RAP.

I don’t think operations are the sole factor. They may be a factor, but I wouldn’t think they’re the only factor, or even a particularly principal one.
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PortAventura being a classic example of a park with notoriously poor ride operations and terrible queue experiences (in order to provide shade from the Mediterranean sun), but very limited visible take up of a RAP type system.
 
Matt N said:
Merlin are not necessarily an outlier in terms of long queues and poor ride availability, though. I would argue plenty of parks have worse operations and/or queue times than Merlin, yet don’t struggle nearly as much with RAP.

I don’t think operations are the sole factor. They may be a factor, but I wouldn’t think they’re the only factor, or even a particularly principal one.
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In fairness it isn't all Merlin parks. And again as i say, this is somewhat a historical problem at this point, we're talking about something that has improved. Are any of the Merlin parks struggling with RAP so far this year?

But we will have to agree to disagree as i do believe the poor operations/availability, whilst not the sole factor are the principal one behind the problems of past years, particularly at Alton Towers. If a park doesn't have astronomical queue times fewer people require RAP, be it legitimate or otherwise. It doesn't happen at Paultons. It doesn't happen at Drayton. I'm not aware of it happening at Blackpool. So in that sense Merlin are an outlier in the UK.

I can't really speak for Europe. My own experiences have been excellent as are general reports i've seen on here but obviously this is a UK-centric demographic so we can't say how reflective it is. The reputation of the likes of Europa and Efteling certainly exceeds this years #1 most globally disappointing tourist attraction :p
 
Bowser said:
Partly yes but as i've mentioned, this is seemingly an almost exclusively Merlin problem due to poor operations. When you have parks that regularly have the majority of their main attractions facing 60+ minute queues and/or breaking down unfortunately people are going to take advantage of an opportunity to bypass that. And now the genie is out of the bottle in that regard.

We had RAP at Efteling but the operations were so good we mostly didn't need to use it as could physically access the main queues and so got to enjoy the themed entrances they have created on many rides too which was a nice bonus.

But again, whilst the last few years were problematic, my impression is things are a lot better now due to the capacity, which is the only viable solution without dramatically improving ride availability (the preferred solution).
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Or they could sensibly cap numbers?
 
It's always a difficult road to navigate. The starting point is to try and "educate" that RAP isnt a FP, both for customers and staff/management;
- tighten the eligibility criteria
- have a digital system so RAP can be booked/tracked/managed more easily by all
- (if not already) have wristbands for all members of a party so there isn't gaming

Essentially return RAP to it's essence, in that everyone should be able to enjoy and ride, and no-one is given special treatment to jump the queue. Job done.
 
Make it digital. Tell customers they must have location settings on their phone. Tell them they're not allowed to join another queue meantime (even if you never check it).

It's quite easy to make RAP unpalatable for those who just want to game it as a FP. You've just got to want to do it!
 
Benzin said:
And where did the perception of "free Fastrack" come from? Online groups looking to take advantage.

Barely anyone used it back in 2009. Then presumably because so few staff members tended to fill in the cards properly it escalated to the current mess. I usually ended up explaining the then RAP system to guests because GS either didn't bother or did it poorly. Not that it's really changed since then bar was only applied onto the big 6 rides at Chessie.

And if they change anything to help tackle it a vocal mob come for them. Like when the pre-book system was announced (and Paultons have taken some flack for the removal of free carer tickets this season too), and usually the most vocal in those cases are the ones abusing the system. Or the ones you see shouting at staff.

Wouldn't it be grand if everyone could choose that they don't need RAP? White knighting doesn't help and is rather condescending to those who require it and can't pick and choose when it applies to them.
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I would say that in this case, education would be key to countering the perception that RAP is seen as a free fast track.

Supporting those who can queue to use the other queues whilst allowing those who need it to use the dedicated queues would be key to this.

I would say a video explaining what a Ride Access Pass including people in the disability community could help when it comes to applications showcasing the support they get whilst also emphasising that it's not a free fast track.

Smiley said:
It's always a difficult road to navigate. The starting point is to try and "educate" that RAP isnt a FP, both for customers and staff/management;
- tighten the eligibility criteria
- have a digital system so RAP can be booked/tracked/managed more easily by all
- (if not already) have wristbands for all members of a party so there isn't gaming

Essentially return RAP to it's essence, in that everyone should be able to enjoy and ride, and no-one is given special treatment to jump the queue. Job done.
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I would agree that all of the above would help go towards this as well.
 
It’s also worth noting that many who use RAP aren’t even capable of sustaining a full day. Towers has a lot of sensory overload experiences (all of FV for example).
Typically even with quiet downtime we get 3-4 rides outta my Son before he’s finished for the day.

It’s frustrating to see people queue in the RAP cattle pen for Hyperia for 75 mins.. like. At this point why can’t they use the main queue? Needs to be more restrictive somehow
 
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