Islander
TS Member
To be fair though, part of that should be discussing its availability, and whether the “net” (so to speak) has been cast to a width such that it lowers the effectiveness of it for those who need it most.
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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
I would be inclined to agree, if that conversation was actually ever instigated, but OP tends to throw it in there as an attempt at an authoritative credential to back up their post.
Using one's own lived experience can be a useful and illustrative device. It's not being used as that in these instances, however.
Fair play - I'm not in another's shoes. Like I said many moons ago RAP etc should make everyone equal. You have to queue (virtually or otherwise) for the same amount of time, and then you don't have to physically wait.
It's a little disquietening when you see people with a RAP queuing in a normal queue, but we'll forgive those. Let's just make everyone equal, and then the RAP does it's job and provides no other benefit.
Is it so difficult??
It's a little disquietening when you see people with a RAP queuing in a normal queue, but we'll forgive those. Let's just make everyone equal, and then the RAP does it's job and provides no other benefit.
Is it so difficult??
Bowser
TS Member
When applying for a RAP you are required to explain how your condition makes queuing difficult, you aren't awarded one upon diagnosis. However the only evidence requirement is said diagnosis or relevant documents such as benefits and the queuing explanation is taken in good faith so the system is rather vulnerable.
Benzin
TS Member
Like with any disability, some can deal with it, others get every single possible flaw that comes with it and causes them problems.
Also one of the few times we deliberately closed a ride during opening hours to sweep the ride area for a dropped kit. Though that was a long time ago.
James
TS Founding Member
Diabetes (type 1 and 2) can lead to multiple complications, such as sight problems, nerve damage, heart disease and foot problems. All of these could certainly hinder your ability to queue for long periods. Like any illness, it will depend on that individual's symptoms and how well (or unwell) they cope with daily life.
tayspru
TS Member
In all those cases though wouldn’t they be comorbidities ? It’s not the the diabetes itself that stops someone from being able to queue.
As mentioned previously, diabetes is usually a comorbidity, running alongside another condition, be it heart problems, hypertension, blood disease, organ failure and so on.
Diabetes in isolation can be easily managed, but it usually comes in tandem with something else.
James
TS Founding Member
What Rob said.
The point is that these comorbidities are inherently linked to diabetes. I'm not sure how this debate started. I would assume that if diabetes is listed as a qualifier for RAP, it's because these comorbidities could potentially cause barriers with queuing for long periods. It's likely easier to list diabetes as a qualifier rather than list every illness known to man. I'm not sure how Nimbus assesses people, but I would assume it's their job to get past the 'diabetes' tick box and assess the individual to ascertain if they genuinely need access to RAP.
I raised it initially, and it was around DAP (EuroDisney). But none of this is relevant. Let's have everyone queue for the same time, in whichever way is most comfortable, and enjoy the ride.
Personally, if I were a theme park operator I'd want a queue of ZERO. Whilst they are virtually queueing the can be eating/drinking/playing that silly horse game. Ker-ching!
If the RAP was properly impleneted, no-one would gain an advantage - and probably RAP users would drop off the planet.
Leigh
TS Member
Funny you should say that. That was the original reason Disney gave for introducing Fastpass+, to get rid of standby lines. But then they realised selling Genie+ would earn more money, and now that’s morphed into Lightning Lane - since they realised people will pay anything to skip the queue and that’s a way bigger earner than anything else.
Bowser
TS Member
A couple of points on this.
1. Whilst in theory i understand the notion of "everyone queuing for the same time", in practice that is not what happens at Disneyland Paris. Those with the RAP equivalent actually queue considerably less than the main lines and there are no time outs. Is this unfair? Personally, i think offering people whose overall quality of life is likely much lower than average a great experience is a wonderful gesture on the part of Disney. The park operates so well that it has no real detrimental impact on other people and you also have to consider that in a large park like that a lot of additional time is required for RAP users in terms of travelling between attractions, using toilets and so on.
Presumably there is a capacity for daily RAP users as you are advised to apply in advance but in reality i'd be surprised if it is ever reached.
This isn't unique to Disney. Drayton Manor operate the same system, Plopsaland do, Efteling does and i'm sure there are others. Unfortunately Merlin parks cannot offer this (I've said previously why i believe this is) so the time out system is the fairest way of dealing with things i agree. The only real issue at this point is the antiquated card system at AT and TP.
2. Disneyland Paris does not ask for your diagnosis, they ask for the relevant official documentation of your country (eg Nimbus Access Card) and your particular access requirements. So i'm not sure where the Diabetes mention stems from, perhaps a relic of a previous system that did ask for your specific condition? I would be curious to know how the qualifications vary by country though as my instinct would be that outside of the UK for better or worse they are more stringent.
I'd just like to jump in here and say I am type 1 diabetic and I have to consider entering a queue on a hot day. If I misjudge the wait and my glucose goes south I could have a very bad day indeed.
I take glucose sweets that don't melt into a queue and thankfully I have a sensor that reads my levels via my phone. But consider this, if I was to ride velocicoaster, and they didn't have the medical cabinet on the platform to store medical equipment, and my phone was in a locker before the metal detectors because that's the rules. I could literally (worst case) die on the ride. That's an extreme example. But as an educated and somewhat non idiotic person, I take responsibility for my condition and not for one minute do I think I deserve a rap or some sort of special treatment, or indeed expect a park to make accomodations for me. The entitlement I've witnessed from some ppl with conditions (yes type 2 diabetes) is just funny. Especially in parks. I quite enjoy when ppl give me a sob story of how bad their life is because they have type 2 diabetes, and I say "oh I'm type one" and because I'm quite fit and healthy they usually go quiet.
I am sure - but if you already have the tech why not give people the choice to not wait in the line. Every queue I see, it shouts "lost £££" to me, whether a theme park, airport.... Especially when queues are as dull as most UK ones.. At Disney there's plenty to do outside of the queue - go for a walk, hunt for hidden Mickeys, trade pin badges, or just soak up the ambience (where the heat and smell of churros will have you opening your wallet quicker than a........
)
Bowser
TS Member
Was at Drayton Manor today. It's interesting that on the face of it they offer the same system as Disneyland Paris. Same qualification, no time outs, no capacity and no meaningful impact on main queues.
Anecdotal as always but i also noticed that the users were quite obviously disabled.
The Merlin conundrum continues...
Anecdotal as always but i also noticed that the users were quite obviously disabled.
The Merlin conundrum continues...
venny
TS Member
It’s intriguing that the consensus to RAP is that, if it’s used by people who genuinely need it, nobody is bothered by those same genuine people using it.
The biggest, and possibly only, problem is that people abuse the system, regularly. We’ve all seen it; we all know how it’s abused so widely.
It’s widespread enough for there to be genuine investment in technology to really clamp down on it. The only solution is for the parks to clamp down strictly on how it’s used. In that way, it shouldn’t effect those who genuinely require the system and at the same time should dissuade (and potentially punish) those who take advantage.
The biggest, and possibly only, problem is that people abuse the system, regularly. We’ve all seen it; we all know how it’s abused so widely.
It’s widespread enough for there to be genuine investment in technology to really clamp down on it. The only solution is for the parks to clamp down strictly on how it’s used. In that way, it shouldn’t effect those who genuinely require the system and at the same time should dissuade (and potentially punish) those who take advantage.
Bowser
TS Member
How?
They can’t backtrack on the criteria, all they can do is further restrict capacity if the system is still overwhelmed. Is it? Haven’t heard from anyone using RAP at AT so far this season.
Legoland worked well enough on my visits this year other than lots of major attractions closing their queues but they have the unique sharing of RAP and FT.
Chessington was good last year.