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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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TPC said:
What's the actual problem with limiting the number of carers from 4 to 1?
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Most families are of more than 1 person and 1 carer. If it was just rap user plus one families wouldn't be able to have a day out together. However, bpb operate 1 plus 1 but give you the option of buying extra or if it isn't overly busy they add family members on. The other problem with rap user plus 1 is some rap users require 2 carers for various reasons.
 
ihaveaspergers said:
Would you prefer the Legoland qsmart system where it's wait then rap entrance?

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No, the LEGOLAND system is dreadful for those who have more complex cognitive needs/ those who are on (for want of a better phrase) the more severe side of things.

What I observe to be the biggest problem with rap is the use of dr's letters for proof of need. These are open to being easily forged and also can be paid for. People who really need rap would have other evidence than a paid for letter. The criteria for rap needs tightening drastically.

Rap is fantastic and a good accommodation for those with real need but it is clearly abused.
 
Trollydolly said:
No, the LEGOLAND system is dreadful for those who have more complex cognitive needs/ those who are on (for want of a better phrase) the more severe side of things.

What I observe to be the biggest problem with rap is the use of dr's letters for proof of need. These are open to being easily forged and also can be paid for. People who really need rap would have other evidence than a paid for letter. The criteria for rap needs tightening drastically.

Rap is fantastic and a good accommodation for those with real need but it is clearly abused.
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Out of curiosity why is the Legoland system worse? I understand it's like at Disney where one can book slots to ride?
 
speedy said:
Out of curiosity why is the Legoland system worse? I understand it's like at Disney where one can book slots to ride?
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Not having instant ride access is one point I hear about, however Legoland do effectively give rap users a single shot fastrack which gains qbot queue access without a wait. Buy only one per visit, the best via the normal book wait ride system.

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:rolleyes:
When you can get RAP for having a nut allergy , the system is completely broken
9Qrmeot.png
 
RicketyCricket said:
This is where it gets tricky and why it's difficult to deny RAP access without opening a huge can of worms. All they can do is trust that guests are honest about their conditions and are not trying to cheat the system.
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This is why I think reducing the number of companions is the easiest solution.
ihaveaspergers said:
Not having instant ride access is one point I hear about, however Legoland do effectively give rap users a single shot fastrack which gains qbot queue access without a wait. Buy only one per visit, the best via the normal book wait ride system.

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That's a tricky one and for this sort of case I think occasional exclusive opening hours for people with severe disabilities may be better.
bluesonichd said:
:rolleyes:
When you can get RAP for having a nut allergy , the system is completely broken
9Qrmeot.png
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I mean, I don't want anybody to die from a bit allergy. But that screenshot speaks for itself...
 
bluesonichd said:
:rolleyes:
When you can get RAP for having a nut allergy , the system is completely broken
9Qrmeot.png
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This is exactly the post that I was talking about in my post on Sunday just after 10pm

RoyJess said:
There was a similar debate on the Merlin additional needs FB page regarding someone with a nut allergy using the RAP on the basis that if they suddenly need medical attention, that the paramedics would be able to get to them quicker in the RAP queue as oppose to the main queue.

The same could be said for someone who has epilepsy, they might suddenly need medical attention.

However you could also argue the fact, what happens if they suddenly need medical attention whilst on a ride or have a fit on the ride?
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I do find it quiet Ironic that the disable members that are frowning upon this, now know how frustrated wheelchair users can feel.
 
speedy said:
Out of curiosity why is the Legoland system worse? I understand it's like at Disney where one can book slots to ride?
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I imagine the about rap works well for people with either mobility impairments or those who understand queues and the concept of time. People who don't understand queuing don't understand if you're physically stood next to the ride or somewhere else in the park. E.g. if my kiddo chooses a ride or we say which ride we're going on that is the extent of his understanding so she doesn't understand that this is what we're doing but in xxx mins. At/tp/cwoa rap is easier for this as you wait after the ride. Another issue is getting to the ride to find it's broken if you manage the wait as there has been a build up. Routine is a problem also, she knows we enter through certain doors (usually the exit) so we can't do what some other rap users do and use the main queues while time ticks down on the qbot. Ie we can only use rap. I think the majority of this would be solved by waiting after the ride rather than before but believe the tech can't cope with that. We no longer go to LEGOLAND for this reason and I've met quite a few families with more severe (not meant for offence) family members who also avoid it like the plague now too. It just doesn't work for those who have very limited comprehension.
 
speedy said:
Hmm sorry if I was a bit unclear, I'm just trying to say that it's hard to say how having condition X will affect someone.

I am autistic myself (Asperger's), maybe ten years ago I'd have struggled with queues but now I'm totally fine, possibly even more patient than your average person. I used to be super embaressed and insist I was normal, now whenever I mention it my mum says I was misdiagnosed :rolleyes:

I think there may be a difference between not liking to queue (sounds like your case) and being unable to queue without going into a panic attack

Edit: for what it's worth Thorpe Park just posted this: https://www.thorpepark.com/blog/ride-access-pass
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Sounds like Thorpe are also moving to a legoland rap qbot esque system which notes down the ride time automatically. Thank goodness this should clamp down on abuse massively
 
speedy said:
Out of curiosity why is the Legoland system worse? I understand it's like at Disney where one can book slots to ride?
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In regards to disney and we do disney world alot... firstly there are many many more things to do other than rides, secondly in our circs and disney being disney they let us have some passes daily to help, thirdly we can mix the access with fast pass and we make use of magic hours, fourth disney is much better managed generally so the timings are accurate whereas at LEGOLAND we found that after the timer had finished we then had to queue again as people were entering the rap queue while the qbot or app counted down.
 
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Trollydolly said:
I imagine the about rap works well for people with either mobility impairments or those who understand queues and the concept of time. People who don't understand queuing don't understand if you're physically stood next to the ride or somewhere else in the park. E.g. if my kiddo chooses a ride or we say which ride we're going on that is the extent of his understanding so she doesn't understand that this is what we're doing but in xxx mins. At/tp/cwoa rap is easier for this as you wait after the ride. Another issue is getting to the ride to find it's broken if you manage the wait as there has been a build up. Routine is a problem also, she knows we enter through certain doors (usually the exit) so we can't do what some other rap users do and use the main queues while time ticks down on the qbot. Ie we can only use rap. I think the majority of this would be solved by waiting after the ride rather than before but believe the tech can't cope with that. We no longer go to LEGOLAND for this reason and I've met quite a few families with more severe (not meant for offence) family members who also avoid it like the plague now too. It just doesn't work for those who have very limited comprehension.
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Yep I see, thanks for taking the time @Trollydolly and @ihaveaspergers

When I worked as a waiter we had a customer like that. She always came with a companion, but she would demand her order be taken straight away, speak much faster than I can write it down, etc. We always took the though to get it right and have it put through fast (even if it angered the kitchen). And as a result she leaves happy! :)

But that's one person, and we have 35 tables. If everyone behaved like this we would be screwed! And I guess this is kind of the problem with RAP just now... ?
 
speedy said:
Yep I see, thanks for taking the time @Trollydolly and @ihaveaspergers

When I worked as a waiter we had a customer like that. She always came with a companion, but she would demand her order be taken straight away, speak much faster than I can write it down, etc. We always took the though to get it right and have it put through fast (even if it angered the kitchen). And as a result she leaves happy! :)

But that's one person, and we have 35 tables. If everyone behaved like this we would be screwed! And I guess this is kind of the problem with RAP just now... ?
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Yes I appreciate that and this is our frustration with rap. Our kiddo does genuinely need rap for the reasons LEGOLAND cite on their website "don't understand the concept of queuing" not a problem with being in restricted space which is where the problem lies.

You are right, there aren't many people at least that we've met in the parks in relation to generally that are like my child and I think if merlin let families like ours have different access all that would happen is more people would go to their gp and ask for a letter saying they have the same. This is why I think letters for rap shouldn't be accepted.
 
Trollydolly said:
Yes I appreciate that and this is our frustration with rap. Our kiddo does genuinely need rap for the reasons LEGOLAND cite on their website "don't understand the concept of queuing" not a problem with being in restricted space which is where the problem lies.

You are right, there aren't many people at least that we've met in the parks in relation to generally that are like my child and I think if merlin let families like ours have different access all that would happen is more people would go to their gp and ask for a letter saying they have the same. This is why I think letters for rap shouldn't be accepted.
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Problem is not everyone has the other documents.

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ihaveaspergers said:
Problem is not everyone has the other documents.

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Why wouldn't they? If they need to use rap at parks surely they'll need other adjustments in life generally? Kids would have iep's/ehcps stating issues with queuing, adults would have risk assessments, social care assessments (children too), clinic letters, mobility assessments etc. If they struggle on a day out, how do they manage normally? If they're not managing why have they prioritised a park day out? It would be the last thing you'd attempt surely. I struggle to see how people can hold a job, raise a family, live a "normal" life and only need help in a theme park where there is free adjustments that give easier ride access. Cwoa's new rap which allows people rap access without a carer but where they can still bring 3 carers and have a free carer admission is a prime example of where the system is being played.
 
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