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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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Thank you for the reply.
We already have all of the relevant documents ready to take with us and we plan to do the online application before we go to speed up the process.
 
I was going to suggest uploading the documents beforehand, it really speeds things up on the day (or does at Chessington anyway).
 
Neither does Chessington, I'm talking when you go to collect your rap pass/id, they usually just glance at the screen and hand over the ticket/pass because the letter has already been approved by higher ups. If you turn up without uploading the details, they take ages going through the documents while you wait.
 
Continuing the discussion that began in the 2019 General Discussion topic, I’d like to reiterate my earlier point (hopefully a bit clearer this time around): I think the solution has to be to make the main queues as accessible to as many disabled people as is realistically possible. Its all good and well saying that it could be the number of carers disabled people take on the ride with them, but it also isn’t really fair to separate whole groups as a means of cutting down the number of people in the RAP queue, groups should be able to ride together if they wish.

Anyway, wheelchair users need a navigable route to the station and many of the queues at Towers just aren’t suitable, so dedicated disabled queues are necessary. And of course, there will be many other people who also need the direct access that this style of queue provides (that sadly at the moment is difficult to properly take advantage of as so many people use it).

However, there will be many people who under the current system are entitled to RAP, and for legitimate reasons, of course, but if Fastrack was scrapped, and operations saw some improvements, some of those people might find they would be able to safely and stresslessly navigate the main queue instead of using the disabled queue. They could still wear a wristband, or have a ticket / pass to show ride hosts that they do have a disability.

I don’t think it should be a case that all disabled people just use one queue, Towers should be making every effort possible to make the main queues as accessible to as many people as possible (and I know they’ll never be able to make them accessible to everyone, but the more people who can access them, the better).

Everyone’s disabilities are different and it varies on how they effect each individual person, but the current system doesn’t treat it as such. The current system is too “black and white”, so to speak.
 
While that could work, it would be very difficult. Queues by their very nature are long (obviously). Even if you made the path wider, I imagine pushing a wheelchair through the queue, and round all the corners it inevitably contains,would be difficult. Also at least some of the stations are at a different height to the entrance, and incorporating a ramp into the existing queue lines would be very difficult
 
I think it would be a case that they keep both queues, but still try and make the main one as accessible for as many people as possible (by trying to make it move as quickly as possible etc.). Those with wheelchairs and anyone else who needs direct access to the ride should still have access to the RAP queue.
 
I can't speak for anyone else, but to me, snowflakes are the kind of people who go looking for things to get offended over. Usually something that doesn't affect them personally at all. More often than not, the people the snowflakes are attempting to defend aren't remotely bothered by whatever is being protested.
 
speedy said:
@Danny you're welcome to explain who exactly are the "snowflakes" since clearly we haven't worked it out yet.
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Oh, is this still going? Must be easily entertained.

I consider a snowflake to be someone who throws their arms up into the air and has a great big whinge when they don't get their own way and labels it as something else. There are plenty of these that Merlin are bending over backwards for at the great expense of everybody else. This includes people cheating systems (such as RAP) for their own benefit.

If you take great offence at your own misinterpretation of a post in the future, perhaps consider reporting a post or better yet... using the ignore function rather than dragging it out further. Particularly given that only the two of you have an issue with it...

db47e88d8b80d201d89ebacc1ab08ae2.png
 
Danny said:
Oh, is this still going? Must be easily entertained.

I consider a snowflake to be someone who throws their arms up into the air and has a great big whinge when they don't get their own way and labels it as something else. There are plenty of these that Merlin are bending over backwards for at the great expense of everybody else. This includes people cheating systems (such as RAP) for their own benefit.

If you take great offence at your own misinterpretation of a post in the future, perhaps consider reporting a post or better yet... using the ignore function rather than dragging it out further.

db47e88d8b80d201d89ebacc1ab08ae2.png
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Okay no problem. You've clarified that my original interpretation of your post was correct, and indeed it is offensive to suggest people up in arms (quite rightly) over equal rights are sowflakes. I think that's fair for me to say, considering I'm partially sighted myself and this sort of thing does affect me.

Have a good day :)
 
No @Danny in direct response to a suggestion of limiting the RAP queue to wheelchair users only you said "The issue you then have is that people will be up in arms calling discrimination, as is such with today's modern snowflake society" implying that anybody who was disabled, but not in a wheelchair, would cry discrimination and they were a snowflake.

Now do you understand why some took offence at that? Sure you later clarified what you meant, but this wasn't how it it initially looked and your continued condescending attitude didn't help.
 
I can fully understand from both sides why this topic gets very heated.

There is a lack of understanding from non disable folk regarding the needs of someone with a disability. Only earlier on this year I temporary lost the sight in my right eye. Just losing the sight in one eye might seem trivial, but this really did have an overall effect on my own well being and mobility. It caused me to have headache, loss of balance and it took me longer to to the simplest of jobs.

So just because the disability can't be seen, it don't mean that a person isn't struggling inside

Even if the Dr.s gave me permission to go on rides, I just didn't feel well enough to feel like going on rides because of the loss of sight in my eye.

Saying that, if I was well enough, I wouldn't say that the lost of sight in my right eye warrant me using the RAP queue lines.

My eye sight has returned with 20/20 vision in both eyes.

This brings me to the next point, just because someone has a disability, it don't necessarily warrant the use of RAP. Only if you disability prevents from using the normal queue.

I do hear people say that they can queue but not for long, but yet over the weekend, the Wicker Man RAP queue was overflowing. So the notion of that they can't queue (or for any length of time) was undermined as they were simply queuing and for a good length of time too.

I think we shouldn't put our heads in the sand and pretend that the RAP isn't being exploited, but at the same time, we don't know the individual medical circumstances and it none of our business. So therefore it not for us to judge.

As you know Jess is disable and we also know what it is like to be on the receiving end of abuse and hate crime. Something that we are having to deal with each time we leave the home. For this reason, when I'm out and about, I do not judge others using the RAP, I do not say anything or behave in a way that could I intimidate them, even if they appear to be clearly exploiting the system. At the end of the day, that is between them, Alton Towers and the Dr.s

At the end of the day, Alton staff are not Dr.s or medical experts.

So what is the solution?

1. I already thought that there was a limit of 4 carers per RAP
2. If the time card is marked off as it should be, then the RAP is not a FT
3. RAP users are not allowed to use the normal queue line
4. You need a Dr. letter (not a fake one made up on a home computer) explaining why you can't queue and proof of disability to obtain a RAP

if the above 4 are being enforced, then there should not be a problem

I think the idea of having scan-able bar codes on the time card is the way to go.

The bottom line, if someone is exploiting the system, then it those people that the RAP system was designed for that will be the biggest losers, not those using the normal queue lines.

Roy :)

I know that this is a difficult subject, but please try and be civil and respect each other
 
IanSR said:
No @Danny implying that anybody who was disabled, but not in a wheelchair, would cry discrimination and they were a snowflake.
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I shall convey this one more time as simply as possible before bowing out of the discussion because as Scott has said, this is just going to go round in circles. It is those who do not need the RAP system but abuse it at the expense of everyone else, who would ultimately cry "DISCRIMINAT1ON!!11!" and are the "sowflakes" (nice term, @speedy, may have to deploy it myself somewhere else to prevent upset) if their access to it was revoked.

My original venture into working with Merlin was at a site where RAP worked admittedly not perfectly, but far better than Towers have been able to demonstrate their capacity to utilise it. It can be done to the benefit of everyone and this needs to be put in place for next season.
 
Danny said:
I shall convey this one more time as simply as possible before bowing out of the discussion because as Scott has said, this is just going to go round in circles. It is those who do not need the RAP system but abuse it at the expense of everyone else, who would ultimately cry "DISCRIMINAT1ON!!11!" and are the "sowflakes" (nice term, @speedy, may have to deploy it myself somewhere else to prevent upset) if their access to it was revoked.
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and yet again you cannot be civil even for one sentence without slinking back into a condescending and sarcastic jibes at people, you already clarified it once and all my post was to explain how the misunderstanding happened and ask whether you understood why, instead of a simple yes or no, you decide more sarcasm is needed.

If the only thing you can bring to this discussion is sarcasm and insults then please yes, bow out now and let the rest of us have a civil conversation about it.

@RoyJess a scannable barcode or Qbot type system like what is used at Legoland would be better, something to stop the sometimes unintentional cheating (not signing the card etc) but that would need a big investment in infrastructure from Merlin and I can't see them doing that.

I think it's also worth pointing out that RAP rarely affects the time of the main queue line, under normal operating procedures there is only one RAP user allowed onto each train, so that's usually two seats, although Thorpe have changed back their system to RAP users going up the fast track queue which seems illogical to me.
 
@Danny I was going to leave it but I can't sleep, so I'll just add to what @IanSR said. Your original post was a very broad, sweeping statement which you've backtracked from. So I hope you see why it caused offence. And yes RAP is flawed, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with advocating for disabled people's rights, able bodied or not.

(And I hope you understand, this is an important issue for me. Be aware that I have plenty of opinions/politics to share once you start me off:D)
 
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