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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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Matt N said:
But what would you do about folk who have hidden disabilities? Not every disability is visible, and there are plenty of folk with legitimate hidden disabilities who cannot queue traditionally or find traditional queueing deeply uncomfortable for whatever reason, and they need catering to in this day and age.

It is a difficult conundrum, but the world has changed and become more inclusive, so I’m afraid that simply forgetting that folk with hidden disabilities exist will not go well.
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Yes, but the way it's going you'll pretty much end up with two queues the same length. I just feel for the genuine people who will probably have miserable trips.
 
RIPCorky said:
Yes, but the way it's going you'll pretty much end up with two queues the same length. I just feel for the genuine people who will probably have miserable trips.
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It is a tough one, for sure. I wonder if in the mid to long term, a transition to Chessington and Legoland’s Reserve’n’Ride system might be a good move, as from what I can tell, that would at very least take the physical queue and turn it into a virtual one, which I ascertain would go some way toward solving the issue for many neurodivergent folk who use RAP.
 
Matt N said:
It is a tough one, for sure. I wonder if in the mid to long term, a transition to Chessington and Legoland’s Reserve’n’Ride system might be a good move, as from what I can tell, that would at very least take the physical queue and turn it into a virtual one, which I ascertain would go some way toward solving the issue for many neurodivergent folk who use RAP.
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It's definitely a delicate subject. No one will have any issue those that are in need being able to skip the queue whichever method they decide works best. But as it stands the system is too easy to con and when you have people bragging about beating queues on facebook groups then it's clear the whole system needs an overhaul.
 
Remember that Towers does state on their website that "having a registered disability does not mean you automatically receive a RAP". Although more and more disabilities are eligible nowadays. It also states that "We offer a RAP to guests who may find it difficult or cannot stand for long periods of time either due to a physical disability or a learning/emotional impairment". They kind of contradict each other mind.
 
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As it stands I would not recommend towers or really any Merlin park to anyone I know who would need an RAP. I’d be worried they’d end up having a miserable experience. Rap queues on opening day were crazy.
 
BigShadowtinytree said:
As it stands I would not recommend towers or really any Merlin park to anyone I know who would need an RAP. I’d be worried they’d end up having a miserable experience. Rap queues on opening day were crazy.
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The problem is all queues were crazy, RAP or not - and that's what people need to realise and accept. If the park is a shambles, then the RAP queue will be a shambles. That doesn't mean that suddenly everyone with a RAP should be let off with not queueing, or suddenly let in over the main queue by staff for fear of complaints. You wouldn't get a host letting people who'd been chucked out earlier ahead in the main queue, so it shouldn't be the case in the RAP queue. Likewise if a ride isn't open and they don't know when it will open (a la Alty Mans), they shouldn't yet be dishing out return times/allowing people to form a queue.

As I've mentioned before, RAP should get equal treatment to the main queue. If the main queue is chucked out due to the ride going down, so should the RAP queue to prevent bunching up when it reopens. Obviously that's difficult to do at the moment, but with a Q Bot system that should be achievable. Yes, it'll produce complaints, but the priority for RAP is not to keep everyone happy in the event of unforeseen circumstances - it's to completely minimise the length that people queue.
 
jon81uk said:
For physical disability the easiest is to build queues with level access in the first place so wheelchair users can just join the main queue. That way only those who are unable to wait in crowds need to get the reservation times to return.
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You'll probably have a health and safety issue there if for any reason the queue line needs evacuating quickly
 
RIPCorky said:
Not at all but what qualifies someone unable to queue for a ride?
Someone in life whether disabled, physically, mentally or hidden etc will eventually have to wait an hour for something, sometimes longer. Some people wait 4 hours for an ambulance
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This is such a weird argument to me, like odds are if you're waiting that long for an ambulance you're likely to be at home or not in a fit state to be moving if you're outside. Very different situation, and even then for those with severe issues it'll be hellish or they'll likely get boosted up the queue a bit.

If you limit it to only physical disabilities you'll end up in court. Must provide accommodations for all disabilities under the various Equality Acts, and Towers were in trouble the other year when they shut the Duel RAP entrance due to Covid so unlikely they'll want to have a mass issue there.
 
Benzin said:
This is such a weird argument to me, like odds are if you're waiting that long for an ambulance you're likely to be at home or not in a fit state to be moving if you're outside. Very different situation, and even then for those with severe issues it'll be hellish or they'll likely get boosted up the queue a bit.

If you limit it to only physical disabilities you'll end up in court. Must provide accommodations for all disabilities under the various Equality Acts, and Towers were in trouble the other year when they shut the Duel RAP entrance due to Covid so unlikely they'll want to have a mass issue there.
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Well actually it does say that just because you're registered disabled doesn't mean you will get a RAP so that's pretty much exactly what they're doing, not treating all disabilities equally
 
RIPCorky said:
Well actually it does say that just because you're registered disabled doesn't mean you will get a RAP so that's pretty much exactly what they're doing, not treating all disabilities equally
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As discussed previously, the requirement for a RAP is assessed independently now, that's as fair and as legal as you can make it. Do I believe some people get it as a "benefit" to get on more rides on busy days rather than purely to avoid physically queueing? Based on conversations I've heard/seen online and on park I'd probably say so. If I'm brutally honest, I probably still question some people's eligibility, especially when I've physically seen people in the community saying that they want to queue properly to get the "full experience" - that's not people finding queueing unbearable, that's finding queues inconvenient. Of course, that's anecdotal based on a relatively small sample size in the grand scheme of things, and there's not a lot that can be done to stop it, so let's move on from that.

What can be changed is the way the virtual queues are managed, and the way complaints are dealt with and addressed. More things to do away from rides/queues with entertainment/F+B, more training for staff to deal with issues (oh I'm really sorry, but let me see what alternatives there are - x, x and x have relatively short queues at the moment). Would pre-booking a ride access pass help? Perhaps a portal to let people know how busy the park is likely to be with a colour coded system? I'm not talking about "you can't visit on this day", just a gentle nudge to guests that a more enjoyable experience may be gained on quieter days.
 
I think it can be made simpler than what has already been said.

You probably won’t be asked to queue like you do at a theme park anywhere else in any other situation. Theme parks are not designed to accommodate for people who can’t queue (for whatever their disability prevents them). This is a great shame.

Queueing is 90%+ of your theme park day. If you can’t do it then it equals a bad time for you. Can you eliminate queuing in a theme park? No, not without limiting the amount of people through the door.

Having never used RAP, what did AT offer in the past for this, or what did people do in the 90’s for example. Did they just not go to theme parks?
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
I think it can be made simpler than what has already been said.

You probably won’t be asked to queue like you do at a theme park anywhere else in any other situation. Theme parks are not designed to accommodate for people who can’t queue (for whatever their disability prevents them). This is a great shame.

Queueing is 90%+ of your theme park day. If you can’t do it then it equals a bad time for you. Can you eliminate queuing in a theme park? No, not without limiting the amount of people through the door.

Having never used RAP, what did AT offer in the past for this, or what did people do in the 90’s for example. Did they just not go to theme parks?
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People struggled. I don't think we should be going down the route of "well it was alright back then", times and knowledge of conditions change. You could argue Towers were too accommodating when implementing what we have now, and I'd personally say that's the case. The difficulty now is swinging back toward the other way without causing the standard press storm. We have various advances in technology that could and should be used to do this, the investment and education to guests and staff on how the service should operate just needs to be done.
 
Craig said:
People struggled. I don't think we should be going down the route of "well it was alright back then", times and knowledge of conditions change. You could argue Towers were too accommodating when implementing what we have now, and I'd personally say that's the case. The difficulty now is swinging back toward the other way without causing the standard press storm. We have various advances in technology that could and should be used to do this, the investment and education to guests and staff on how the service should operate just needs to be done.
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So we’ve got no where in 30 years then. People struggled then, and struggle now.

I don’t even think technology fixes this due to the amount of capacity required to accommodate for the RAP queue.
 
Blackhole_Sun said:
I don’t even think technology fixes this due to the amount of capacity required to accommodate for the RAP queue.
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It won't fix it outright, but that's where the other bits come in. Prebooking could potentially allow guests to be told when the RAP queues would be larger, then expectations could be set that there's a likelihood they wouldn't get on many rides. Then they could suggest alternative days to visit, perhaps even offer a slight discount to people to sweeten the deal? Properly setting those expectations and properly dealing with complaints on the day would go a long way to solving a lot of the problems the service has.
 
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