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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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Islander said:
How'd you suggest staff, who are often very young and on minimum wage, enforce the rules when a large number of guests* will react forcefully and even abusively to being told that they cannot use the RAP system as they want to?

* - of course, compared to all who use RAP, this is a minority. But happens a lot...
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Would a digital system, similar to that employed by Legoland, help with this?

That way, the staff would be able to refer to the digital system to enforce the rules rather than needing to fully enforce them themselves, and it should make guests more aware of the rules of the system.
 
Matt N said:
Would a digital system, similar to that employed by Legoland, help with this?

That way, the staff would be able to refer to the digital system to enforce the rules rather than needing to fully enforce them themselves, and it should make guests more aware of the rules of the system.
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Yes, totally. As much as it's not fantastic(al) customer service, with the digital system, you can always default to "computer says no"

post title GIF
 
imanautie said:
As I've said multiple times now, I think raps main issue is them not enforcing the current rules, not disabled guests liking one particular ride.
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But you haven't said why restricting the main queue would help the RAP queue in those situations!

Enforcing the rules as they stand would make things better obviously, but I'm pretty certain at this point it wouldn't come close to resolving the massive oversubscription, RAP queue problems and the effect on the main queue.

The return time is based on the standby queue time, not on the capacity of the ride to deal with those returning. That is the fatal floor with the system however well it is run, and will always result in a queue when too many RAP quests arrive at once. What needs to be managed is when a person can join the RAP access line so that queue shouldn't be able to exist.

As broken as it is RAP still offers a huge advantage to someone using it over someone not using it (especially to those who, to put it politely, could do without it), it is widely used and abused as free fastrack for those that are able to be in two queues at once. That's what drives demand. Remove the advantage, remove the demand. When you have a RAP return time you should not be able to enter another physical queue. We are only after equal acces after all, not advantage...
 
pluk said:
The return time is based on the standby queue time, not on the capacity of the ride to deal with those returning. That is the fatal floor with the system however well it is run, and will always result in a queue when too many RAP quests arrive at once. What needs to be managed is when a person can join the RAP access line so that queue shouldn't be able to exist.
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With this in mind, do you reckon a digital system that took into account the operating capacity of rides to stagger return times would work in some capacity?
 
Matt N said:
With this in mind, do you reckon a digital system that took into account the operating capacity of rides to stagger return times would work in some capacity?
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Yes, absolutely. RAP and fastrack should be a live digital system that controls the numbers of people able to enter that line. They could probably fund a workable system on profits of a few days of fastrack sales!!
 
Islander said:
How'd you suggest staff, who are often very young and on minimum wage, enforce the rules when a large number of guests* will react forcefully and even abusively to being told that they cannot use the RAP system as they want to?

* - of course, compared to all who use RAP, this is a minority. But happens a lot...
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Management need to back their staff, instead of just giving into abusive guests and going on ok just this time.
 
imanautie said:
Limit it for all, or limit it for non.

Thats it.
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I would counter that there is a distinction between limiting the number of times you can ride something vs. limiting the number of times you can use a particular system or adjustment to ride it.

I.e. - when the queue is a walk on in the morning, crack on in standby if you are physically able ... use RAP when the queue is at a steady 60 minutes and if you feel able, use standby when it's at a more manageable 30 mins in the dying hours of the day.

That said, I am not convinced that's a solution either. If they operated the system as intended, I think it could potentially solve so many problems - or at least shine a light on where the problems are. The 'free Fastrack' reputation drives the demand, the demand creates the headaches.

Joel said:
Spotted this RAP “discussion” on Twitter… oooft!

IMG_7952.jpeg

And then the post appears to have been removed and followed up with a “statement”


From: https://twitter.com/stealthbrakefin/status/1645117912787582976?s=46&t=6Mljne77mVILyqvSsDVeRw


RAP appears to be a hot hot mess to me!
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That's a fairly douchey thing to post but I am not sure it's against the rules ? There's nothing to say RAP users can't use standby queues, right ?

It probably just highlights one of the unsolvable problems with the RAP system ... some guests will use it because they are entitled to it but don't strictly 'need' it - so it can be used to virtually queue for one ride, whilst you physically queue for another.
 
Rick said:
It probably just highlights one of the unsolvable problems with the RAP system ... some guests will use it because they are entitled to it but don't strictly 'need' it - so it can be used to virtually queue for one ride, whilst you physically queue for another.
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No one is "entitled" to it though. The word to use is "eligible".
 
Rick said:
I would counter that there is a distinction between limiting the number of times you can ride something vs. limiting the number of times you can use a particular system or adjustment to ride it.

I.e. - when the queue is a walk on in the morning, crack on in standby if you are physically able ... use RAP when the queue is at a steady 60 minutes and if you feel able, use standby when it's at a more manageable 30 mins in the dying hours of the day.

That said, I am not convinced that's a solution either. If they operated the system as intended, I think it could potentially solve so many problems - or at least shine a light on where the problems are. The 'free Fastrack' reputation drives the demand, the demand creates the headaches.


That's a fairly douchey thing to post but I am not sure it's against the rules ? There's nothing to say RAP users can't use standby queues, right ?

It probably just highlights one of the unsolvable problems with the RAP system ... some guests will use it because they are entitled to it but don't strictly 'need' it - so it can be used to virtually queue for one ride, whilst you physically queue for another.
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For some guests your right it's different, for other guests no, it's rap queue or no ride.
I might at times be able to use main (unlikely at chessington recently..), but like a lot of disability related stuff, i don't push what's right for me, i push whats right for all disableds including mobility aid users and others who for whatever reason *has* to use the RAP queue.
 
The rules abroad are different.

A few years ago the German particularly were very strict on it through the TUV. Seems to have lessened in recent years but wouldn't be surprised if the viewpoint was "rides are not suitable for those with disabilities due to H&S".

More fool them for not doing the appropriate research or discussing more with the park's guest services.
 
Dave said:
I mean discrimination isn’t good but that person basically just admitted their child could queue…
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As the only alternative since it seems Garda don't allow even wheelchair users to transfer on the coasters.

Benefit of the doubt says that queuing would've been a horrid experience for them. Depending on disability naturally. Can imagine if it was a mobility based one then used up a lot of energy to then be denied.

Interestingly Garda seem to offer (or did) a staff assistant system for disabled groups. Why didn't they use that?
 
Skyscraper said:
This is on the MAP Facebook group...

IMG-20230411-WA0002.jpg

For a Merlin park that is shocking.
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For those with cognative disabilities the thrill rides aren't even listed as no-one with any cognative disability is allowed to ride https://www.gardaland.it/media/bbvh3zxc/guida-disabili-cognitiva-2022_eng.pdf

Or if its a physical disability the guide here is very clear that wheelchair users and those with disability in lower limbs cannot ride Shamen https://www.gardaland.it/media/gtodfwr4/guida-disabili-fisica-2022_eng.pdf

So the experiance in the screenshot above is exactly as the guide promises, there are large numbers of rides not available to those with disabilities.
 
jon81uk said:
For those with cognative disabilities the thrill rides aren't even listed as no-one with any cognative disability is allowed to ride https://www.gardaland.it/media/bbvh3zxc/guida-disabili-cognitiva-2022_eng.pdf

Or if its a physical disability the guide here is very clear that wheelchair users and those with disability in lower limbs cannot ride Shamen https://www.gardaland.it/media/gtodfwr4/guida-disabili-fisica-2022_eng.pdf

So the experiance in the screenshot above is exactly as the guide promises, there are large numbers of rides not available to those with disabilities.
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That is In line with the experience of a few friends, if your visibly disabled you *will* be detrained, looks like the disability advocacy movement still has work to do I see
 
No need for the 30 minute argument. Just inform them they're not all getting on the ride. If they don't accept the rules then just get security to remove them from the area, and theme park if needs be. Too much pussy footing around with idiots these days.
 
BarryZola said:
No need for the 30 minute argument. Just inform them they're not all getting on the ride. If they don't accept the rules then just get security to remove them from the area, and theme park if needs be. Too much pussy footing around with idiots these days.
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Problem a lot of the time front line staff don't feel they can, THORPE security do fairly well once they get the call with issues like this (I hear they respond fairly quickly unlike Alton due to size of the site), but if staff aren't confident enough to say no,make the call and stand their ground waiting they aren't going to.
 
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