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Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

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It doesn’t help that in the U.K. , Towers and Merlin by far have the most active social media base. Are there more disabled / neurodivergent guests at these parks than everywhere else? Probably not.

Are there multiple yummy mummy Facebook groups that explain exactly what a doctors letter needs to say to get RAP at the Merlin parks ? Absolutely .

Management would have to be astronomically ignorant not to see that RAP isn’t working . But it *is* working as a driver to FT sales (they sell out on remotely busy days) for other guests so they won’t rush to fix it ...
 
tayspru said:
It doesn’t help that in the U.K. , Towers and Merlin by far have the most active social media base. Are there more disabled / neurodivergent guests at these parks than everywhere else? Probably not.

Are there multiple yummy mummy Facebook groups that explain exactly what a doctors letter needs to say to get RAP at the Merlin parks ? Absolutely .

Management would have to be astronomically ignorant not to see that RAP isn’t working . But it *is* working as a driver to FT sales (they sell out on remotely busy days) for other guests so they won’t rush to fix it ...
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I know some in management at individual parks are trying to smooth things over but there's only so much they can do without corporate support
 
Yup you've got no chance of resolving this properly as an individual park below group level, I highly doubt management are in any way ignorant to it, but just finding it difficult to work out how to fix. Any changes would provoke some form of backlash in the media, so nothing at parks in terms of RAP will ever change without the express agreement of Merlin.

tayspru said:
It doesn’t help that in the U.K. , Towers and Merlin by far have the most active social media base. Are there more disabled / neurodivergent guests at these parks than everywhere else? Probably not.

Are there multiple yummy mummy Facebook groups that explain exactly what a doctors letter needs to say to get RAP at the Merlin parks ? Absolutely .

Management would have to be astronomically ignorant not to see that RAP isn’t working . But it *is* working as a driver to FT sales (they sell out on remotely busy days) for other guests so they won’t rush to fix it ...
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Whilst there will be some who buy Fastrack off the back of large queues, I don't think that's necessarily solely because of RAP. The queues are already large due to Covid restrictions more than anything else, and top that off with people not being under lockdown restrictions and then limited places being open, they're more willing to spend their disposable income for extras such as Fastrack.

Fastrack sales are of course a quick hit of profit, but the park still needs to look after other guests and see the bigger picture. RAP users need to get a service they expect - to access a ride avoiding the need for standing in an excessive queue, and regular guests need to see sensible queues without seeing loads of RAP users being pushed through in front at once too. Complaints from those guests, and the resolution to them by way of Fastracks, return tickets or magic money can soon exceed the profit made from selling Fastrack.
 
Honestly at this point , when major rides have 1 hour RAP queues the whole system needs to be switched off . What is the difference between standing in the RAP queue for an hour and the main queue for an hour ? And don’t give me the space to move around answer because the RAP queues are just as fenced in for rides like Wickerman
 
tayspru said:
Honestly at this point , when major rides have 1 hour RAP queues the whole system needs to be switched off . What is the difference between standing in the RAP queue for an hour and the main queue for an hour ? And don’t give me the space to move around answer because the RAP queues are just as fenced in for rides like Wickerman
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That's the point that's being made, having a RAP queue that's an hour long is unsustainable and not suitable for those who need to use that service. Saying turn it off "use the main queue" is also unsuitable too though, as many are not able to utilise the steps and uneven terrain that a main queue brings.
 
Craig said:
That's the point that's being made, having a RAP queue that's an hour long is unsustainable and not suitable for those who need to use that service. Saying turn it off "use the main queue" is also unsuitable too though, as many are not able to utilise the steps and uneven terrain that a main queue brings.
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So what is clear then is that too many people have access to RAP . I think the appropriate course of action would be having a specially trained team that deal with issuing RAP and nothing else.

No paid for doctors notes for mums to hide behind, no waving out of date or at best tenuous diagnoses at an underpaid and overworked guest services team member. Just an honest and open conversation about the needs your party member has and how they can be accommodated by the park. This works in major parks in the US thanks to their laws, and anyone who has a genuine need for RAP would have no problem articulating how their needs can be accommodated.
 
tayspru said:
So what is clear then is that too many people have access to RAP . I think the appropriate course of action would be having a specially trained team that deal with issuing RAP and nothing else.

No paid for doctors notes for mums to hide behind, no waving out of date or at best tenuous diagnoses at an underpaid and overworked guest services team member. Just an honest and open conversation about the needs your party member has and how they can be accommodated by the park. This works in major parks in the US thanks to their laws, and anyone who has a genuine need for RAP would have no problem articulating how their needs can be accommodated.
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I completely agree that there needs to be a change in RAP implementation as well as its operation on park, I've made that clear in the topic already. But, that's easier said than done when a single complaint following a wrong decision or a guest going to the press can cause at best a flurry of negative media stories, at worst legal action which the parks really do not need right now. Like everything to do with RAP, it's relatively easy to think of solutions, but it's the knock on effects and backlash that has to be given the most consideration. It's the park's own doing allowing it to get to this point, but we have precedents set for who has access to RAP, and modifying those after so long is challenging to say the least.
 
I have no doubt they would be able to find a way to implement changes that do not take away RAP from those who need it. There’s no reason a genuine RAP user couldn’t outline their needs to a trained host . Someone who’s blagging it however would struggle and then lose access.

For example, at Universal, a British family next to us at their service desk couldn’t outline any additional information other than “well he can’t queue” , they couldn’t outline what kind of things would happen - for example what responses would be triggered in the child , they just kept arguing “why can’t we just show you the papers like we do at home” . These are the people who need to be stamped out .
 
tayspru said:
So what is clear then is that too many people have access to RAP . I think the appropriate course of action would be having a specially trained team that deal with issuing RAP and nothing else.

No paid for doctors notes for mums to hide behind, no waving out of date or at best tenuous diagnoses at an underpaid and overworked guest services team member. Just an honest and open conversation about the needs your party member has and how they can be accommodated by the park. This works in major parks in the US thanks to their laws, and anyone who has a genuine need for RAP would have no problem articulating how their needs can be accommodated.
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You mean like paultons where they have a nurse on site who checks stuff?
 
Another reason for the influx of RAP users is that on the 30th Aug 2019 the Blue Badge Criteria has change to allow those with hidden disabilities to apply for a blue badge.
 
RoyJess said:
Another reason for the influx of RAP users is that in recent years, the Blue Badge Criteria has change to allow those with hidden disabilities to apply for a blue badge.
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Which is precisely why (upon a moments research) Paultons do not accept a DLA or Blue Badge alone as it doesn’t state the reason for issue
 
tayspru said:
If that’s the case I applaud them, I never see Paultons receive criticism for their system :)
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Paultons used to (might still do) only allow one queue jump for each ride for the group all day as well.

That being said I'm not sure on the numbers of people going through Paultons they either know or use it. Which will help them to have that sort of system. You'd need a lot of nurses at Towers etc.

Paultons are the only park who have this as well.
 
imanautie said:
They do the chat method don't they
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Yes , they legally aren’t allowed to view medical documents, so the yummy mummy brigade can’t just wave whatever Facebook told them needs to be written on a doctors letter they’ve paid for and get what they want. You actually have to explain what kind of triggers need to be avoided , the impact on your visit if you have to use main queues, what kind of danger the person could actually present to others - a multitude of discussions that genuine users are all too familiar with. The team members are also trained to make sure none of that questioning is in any way intrusive, rather just frankly discussing the reality of the kind of conditions that necessitate special access.

It works very well and means that the service was only being used by those who truly needed it.
 
The laws regarding disability are different over the pond compare to here in the UK. Companies here in the UK are not legally allowed to question people about their disability/medical conditions, they can get into a lot of trouble for doing so.
 
RoyJess said:
The laws regarding disability are different over the pond compare to here in the UK. Companies here in the UK are not legally allowed to question people about their disability/medical conditions, they can get into a lot of trouble for doing so.
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They didn’t once ask - and wouldn’t need to ask - what is your condition. The question is very much “what needs can we accommodate and what happens if we don’t” - I think that’s fair and in keeping with legal requirements, in fact the US law is more restrictive as not only can’t they ask what condition you have , they can’t even look at any medical documents (no matter how much Karen from Facebook waves them around)
 
tayspru said:
They didn’t once ask - and wouldn’t need to ask - what is your condition. The question is very much “what needs can we accommodate and what happens if we don’t” - I think that’s fair and in keeping with legal requirements, in fact the US law is more restrictive as not only can’t they ask what condition you have , they can’t even look at any medical documents (no matter how much Karen from Facebook waves them around)
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It reminds me of the Ada rules around service animals notably the two questions rule.
("Is your animal required for a disability? What task does the animal perform?)
 
I'm sure that there will be a facebook group or forum that will tell people how to answer the face to face questioning, no different to getting it in writing or not

Here in the UK, they are not allowed to question you about your disability, even in slightest. I know this as I have had help and legal advice before using the EASS (Equality Advisory Support Service)
 
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