Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

[Craig]

Until they bite the bullet and run RAP in the same way as the main queue by issuing accurate return times by properly taking into account the existing RAP queue, it ain't going to change regardless of eligibility.

Special mention for the RAP queue for Alton Manor before it opened yesterday, which was insane. To put it bluntly, a RAP queue before the ride is operating should not have existed - especially when it's stretching up to Sub Terra! If people want to ride, they either enter the normal queue or should experience other attractions and come back for a return time later once the ride has opened. If it causes complaints there's a simple response - if you're capable of standing and waiting well over an hour for the ride to start operating and do not have a physical disability preventing you from using the short number of steps up to the entrance, you're capable of queueing. No ifs and no buts - your RAP is not required.

 

[RIPCorky]

Yep come back later when the queue is shorter and enter the main one unless you are not physically able to stand for a long period of time. There is absolutely no way to means test whether someone is "mentally able" to queue for a ride or not. At some point in their lives these people are going to have to wait for an Ambulance or A&E god knows how they will cope.

 

[Skyscraper]

I'm planning to use the main queue on TCAAM when I go because I know it will probably be relatively short, but, more importantly, I want to look at the gravestones. The Fastrack and RAP entrances bypass them completely. And unlike Duel I assume they'll use at least the first section of the outdoor queue even on quiet days, given the new entrance structure and such?

 

[Benzin]

Presumably the Alton Manor RAP queue will be a one off (like the normal queue going back to Pizza Pasta!)

They probably could've taken the chance to make the queue accessible friendly (like Efteling are doing for Danse Macabre), which would improved the situation somewhat especially with the queueline being one of the few non cattle pen death queuelines in the park.

Maybe they should start doing some RAP survey related stuff going forwards to go for the "we got feedback from users" in a very transparent method of changing the situation. When instead they just change it to 1 carer only and tough potatoes if you have a family (and this would completely screw us over when we next visit as a suggestion with the child).

That they've had to add an actual queueline to the Thirteen RAP is where it becomes truly broken.

 

[John]

In trying to help more people, Merlin have inadvertently set the eligibility bar so low that they could have half of their guests users RAP.

I sometimes wonder if they've given up on the idea of trying to improve the situation and are have just decided that it's just easier if they have 2 separate queues of roughly equal length and not worry about the tricky issue of return times, maybe let everyone use whichever queue looks shorter.

 

[Rob]

The Alton Manor RAP queue on Saturday morning was a farce. I literally burst out laughing when I saw it stretching all the way back towards Sub-Terra. As Craig says, anyone who was able to stand and wait that long, well over an hour, in that RAP queue did not need RAP. I felt for those than genuinely did need to use it.

 

[Skyscraper]

The Alton Manor RAP queue on Saturday morning was a farce. I literally burst out laughing when I saw it stretching all the way back towards Sub-Terra. As Craig says, anyone who was able to stand and wait that long, well over an hour, in that RAP queue did not need RAP. I felt for those than genuinely did need to use it.

Would displaying the wait times for the RAP queues help to discourage people from using them? Last Scarefest I had no idea that Thirteen RAP wait was longer than the main queue, or I'd have gone somewhere else.

 

[jon81uk]

Would displaying the wait times for the RAP queues help to discourage people from using them? Last Scarefest I had no idea that Thirteen RAP wait was longer than the main queue, or I'd have gone somewhere else.

If return times are being managed properly then the queue should be short. What are guests who truly need to do the system meant to do?

 

[Islander]

Would displaying the wait times for the RAP queues help to discourage people from using them? Last Scarefest I had no idea that Thirteen RAP wait was longer than the main queue, or I'd have gone somewhere else.

But there shouldn't be a wait time for a RAP queue? The entire point of the RAP access is for people who are unable to queue, so beyond maybe 5m of faff time, there should not be a queue.

If there is, the system is broken. If you advertise that queue time, you may as well advertise "OUR SYSTEM IS BROKEN!!"

 

[Benzin]

Yeah there should maybe at most be a 5/10 minute wait (batching, other RAP users, etc.), having an actual queue time (then adding on the existing queuetime if they're doing the job properly) is a mess.

But it's a Merlin based mess. Granted not visited Mingo or Blackpool for a while but when last visited had very few problems with masses of people. Aside from trying to access most of the rides at Blackpool due to the limited space on many of them.

 

[Squiggs]

As Craig says, anyone who was able to stand and wait that long, well over an hour, in that RAP queue did not need RAP. I felt for those than genuinely did need to use it.

The issue of course being that the RAP system isn't that simple, it's made up of a range of people with different access requirements.

So the ability to stand for an hour is one segment of RAP (who, to be fair, probably weren't actually in that queue on Saturday). But equally there are people who can queue for an hour, but can't manage stairs or uneven ground for example, and a whole range of other requirements.

I think around these parts we often try and back-seat diagnose the people in the RAP queues, but that is always going to be a loosing battle, because it is simply impossible to know someone's access requirements based on a quick glance.

 

[Tom]

What are the reasons, or predominant reasons for the inability to queue? Is it the frustration of waiting for long periods generally, or the time spent in proximity to others? I'm interested to know if and how the current RAP queues are anymore bearable to people with these needs than the main queues.

For instance, the Wicker Man queue can literally look like a huge collection of watching spectators on peak summer day.

 

[Squiggs]

What are the reasons, or predominant reasons for the inability to queue?

It is literally impossible for anyone here to know. The system is based on an individual by individual basis, assessed on their actual requirements, so there could be a wide variety of reasons why someone might qualify.

 

[jmc]

It was a similar story for The Smiler queue on Saturday morning. Main queue 70 mins, with regular tannoy announcements from staff stating the RAP queue is even longer.

I joined the end of the main queue at the screen by the final turn - usually around 20 mins - and it took over an hour. I have legitimately never been in such a slow moving queue at Towers - it was Mingo Land levels of slow.


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[Ash]

A farcical system, as others have said, it should be limited to one or as many carers needed.

Furthermore if someone can’t wait that long in a queue, surely the question should be asked are they suitable to ride? What if it breaks down and they’re stuck?

Also where were all these people with requirements 20 years ago?

Both the bar and the parameters are too lax and it’s become a real shame to people who need it.

As normal, when people are presented with “do you need this?” As an option, some will take regardless

 

[rob666]

What are the reasons, or predominant reasons for the inability to queue? Is it the frustration of waiting for long periods generally, or the time spent in proximity to others? I'm interested to know if and how the current RAP queues are anymore bearable to people with these needs than the main queues.

For instance, the Wicker Man queue can literally look like a huge collection of watching spectators on peak summer day.

The pushy "helicopter" parents, and the medicalisation of deviant behaviours in the young, seem to be the main reasons for the massive increase in rap use.
Both quite modern inventions, I studied both thirty odd years ago!
Scrap the whole system, make every queue accessible, or limit the access to plus one carer...because the current system has failed.

 

[Benzin]

What are the reasons, or predominant reasons for the inability to queue? Is it the frustration of waiting for long periods generally, or the time spent in proximity to others? I'm interested to know if and how the current RAP queues are anymore bearable to people with these needs than the main queues.

For instance, the Wicker Man queue can literally look like a huge collection of watching spectators on peak summer day.

Multitude of reasons. Wife's is a physical disability so that's kinda a given why she can't stand in queues (hell somedays she can barely make it up and down stairs at home).

The mental health disabilities are naturally harder to fit into a one size fits all system that RAP (and other disabled systems) attempt to solve. I can't really speak from personal experiences on these terms but I can imagine that there's a lot of potential for triggers and meltdowns at theme parks and neurodivergence people can often really struggle to come to terms with certain things. And sometimes it's difficult to reset from what I've seen and heard.

I would wager some of the RAP queues are more bearable than being in say, Smiler's or Rita's queues. Though we don't go on Rita and we use the wheelchair lift for Smiler so we avoid them in general.

Furthermore if someone can’t wait that long in a queue, surely the question should be asked are they suitable to ride? What if it breaks down and they’re stuck?

Also where were all these people with requirements 20 years ago?

Wife gets asked on a few rides if she can do certain tasks (like evacuate if necessary), this is separate from the GS issuing the bands. So they do check for physical disabilities and would definitely limit say amputees from certain rides.

Again mental disability is very different, and harder to judge how or when they could suffer from it. End of the day that's the risk both rider and park take with these systems, but it shouldn't be a cop out method.

20 years ago things like Autism or ADHD weren't really classified as things. Usually put down to being "slow" or "quiet" or just "badly behaved". Niece-in-law is currently going through the system and she can have a lot of really bad moments, she is at least hopefully going to get the right help she needs but no chance would I have had that at her age. Massive difference.

There's been a massive change in how mental health particularly is dealt with in the country and there are far more calls for accessibility for all than ever. The world is not designed for disabled people (trying to just get to Asda sometimes due to dodgy pavements and the like is hellish), and there's a lot more work to be done to solve such an issue.


Unfortunately with Merlin RAP it's become a far bigger beast that originally. Think a lot of that is down to it never being really implemented correctly (I had to explain it to guests a number of times at Chessie because GS just WOULDN'T), and a lot of abuse from certain parts of the MAP community with the whole "It'S fReE fAsTrAcK!".

Then again, people take advantage of things for disabled people all the time. Amount if times we can't use a blue badge space because of able-bodied people using it is disgusting. But no one really cares so they do it anyway for their own small advantage.

 

[AT86]

Merlin seem to have taken steps to amend the process for applying for RAP so that it is harder to abuse the system - needing to apply in advance to a third party provider who specialise in medical needs and disabilities as opposed to on the day via 17 years olds in guest services making those calls feels like a step in the right direction in terms of making it fairer for all.

The missing link in the process is that there is no control over how many RAP guests can enter the queue at any given time. Meaning 50 people can show up at once which helps no one. As has been mentioned many times - flipping the system to require a return time before entering a RAP ride entrance would mean they can easily control the numbers arriving and therefore the wait times, improving the experience for everyone.

There is even ready made technology available for this to be implemented in use at other Merlin parks, which makes it all the more frustrating that is hasn’t been done.

 

[rob666]

Multitude of reasons. Wife's is a physical disability so that's kinda a given why she can't stand in queues (hell somedays she can barely make it up and down stairs at home).

The mental health disabilities are naturally harder to fit into a one size fits all system that RAP (and other disabled systems) attempt to solve. I can't really speak from personal experiences on these terms but I can imagine that there's a lot of potential for triggers and meltdowns at theme parks and neurodivergence people can often really struggle to come to terms with certain things. And sometimes it's difficult to reset from what I've seen and heard.

I would wager some of the RAP queues are more bearable than being in say, Smiler's or Rita's queues. Though we don't go on Rita and we use the wheelchair lift for Smiler so we avoid them in general.



Wife gets asked on a few rides if she can do certain tasks (like evacuate if necessary), this is separate from the GS issuing the bands. So they do check for physical disabilities and would definitely limit say amputees from certain rides.

Again mental disability is very different, and harder to judge how or when they could suffer from it. End of the day that's the risk both rider and park take with these systems, but it shouldn't be a cop out method.

20 years ago things like Autism or ADHD weren't really classified as things. Usually put down to being "slow" or "quiet" or just "badly behaved". Niece-in-law is currently going through the system and she can have a lot of really bad moments, she is at least hopefully going to get the right help she needs but no chance would I have had that at her age. Massive difference.

There's been a massive change in how mental health particularly is dealt with in the country and there are far more calls for accessibility for all than ever. The world is not designed for disabled people (trying to just get to Asda sometimes due to dodgy pavements and the like is hellish), and there's a lot more work to be done to solve such an issue.


Unfortunately with Merlin RAP it's become a far bigger beast that originally. Think a lot of that is down to it never being really implemented correctly (I had to explain it to guests a number of times at Chessie because GS just WOULDN'T), and a lot of abuse from certain parts of the MAP community with the whole "It'S fReE fAsTrAcK!".

Then again, people take advantage of things for disabled people all the time. Amount if times we can't use a blue badge space because of able-bodied people using it is disgusting. But no one really cares so they do it anyway for their own small advantage.

Sorry, I worked with ADHD and Autism, through all the spectrum, forty years ago for over two decades...they were classified as "things", and slow, quiet or badly behaved had been long thrown out of the window professionally.
There was massive pressure on child mental health services back then, as now, and autism, adhd and Aspergers had already been around for decades, terminology has changed, but all those terms were already in regular use and had been for years.
Back then, it wasn't considered an excuse for speedier access to rides, which is what rap became because of misuse and poor management.

 

[Squiggs]

Ah yes, the 80s; often known as the golden age of neurodivergence.

I think you might need to better define the term 'professionally' there. Many people going through the education system in that decade may have a rather different recollection.