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Scarefest 2013: Discussion
Croftybaby
TS Member
More cuts and F ups than the Tory government!
I wasn't planning on going anyway, this just acts as further justification. Totally agree with some of the other comments, Merlin seem to have some sort of backwards thinking, instead of trying to attract business to the quiet days they would rather just leave it as it is and save costs.
I'm seriously doubting Altons position as a top UK visitor attraction these days. The local parks don't seem to have a lot to fear.
I wasn't planning on going anyway, this just acts as further justification. Totally agree with some of the other comments, Merlin seem to have some sort of backwards thinking, instead of trying to attract business to the quiet days they would rather just leave it as it is and save costs.
I'm seriously doubting Altons position as a top UK visitor attraction these days. The local parks don't seem to have a lot to fear.
EuroSatch
TS Member
What an absolute farce. Current management are running the park into an untimely death with current decisions. It's rapidly becoming a laughing stock of the theme park world, and they seem to think it's a justified business model?!
At times like this I always think of the wise words spoken to Kevin Costner. "If you build it, they will come"
I'm not going to Scarefest this year. I've had enough, and it has been losing the edge that made it special since 2009. I doubt I'll be visiting much next year either
At times like this I always think of the wise words spoken to Kevin Costner. "If you build it, they will come"
I'm not going to Scarefest this year. I've had enough, and it has been losing the edge that made it special since 2009. I doubt I'll be visiting much next year either
Dave
TS Founding Member
Going to put a thought out there...
Now i could be pushed to support earlier closing on the quiet week, i suppose it can be argued that the park loses money if it operates with a low number of guests for 11 hours. Certainly not many parks offer fixed opening times even on their event days (including EP and Disney ect).
HOWEVER
My issue is that this is:
1) done mid season when people may already have booked based on a fair assumption that the park would be open late
2) There is no obvious drive to put the money saved into making the event better.
Unfortunately there are no signs that the event will be any better, i guarantee there will be no decent lighting, i'm certain the team behind the mazes will do their best to make them better but wont get a budget to do it properly and the family offering will be limited.
I don't have a huge issue with the closing time per-say (though 8pm would be better), its the fact the event is being reduced. Make it a bit longer of plough more into the event to make it spectacular. I could accept certain days been reduced in length if i felt that budget was going elsewhere in the event to make it truly amazing.
And then when you have sorted that out look at how you can boost the parks attendance in the first week and slowly move to increase the opening time to match the increase.
The issue with Merlin's parks are that risk taking is not allowed as staff are too scared in-case they don't meet budget, fail their targets and lose their jobs. Without risk though there is no innovation!
Now i could be pushed to support earlier closing on the quiet week, i suppose it can be argued that the park loses money if it operates with a low number of guests for 11 hours. Certainly not many parks offer fixed opening times even on their event days (including EP and Disney ect).
HOWEVER
My issue is that this is:
1) done mid season when people may already have booked based on a fair assumption that the park would be open late
2) There is no obvious drive to put the money saved into making the event better.
Unfortunately there are no signs that the event will be any better, i guarantee there will be no decent lighting, i'm certain the team behind the mazes will do their best to make them better but wont get a budget to do it properly and the family offering will be limited.
I don't have a huge issue with the closing time per-say (though 8pm would be better), its the fact the event is being reduced. Make it a bit longer of plough more into the event to make it spectacular. I could accept certain days been reduced in length if i felt that budget was going elsewhere in the event to make it truly amazing.
And then when you have sorted that out look at how you can boost the parks attendance in the first week and slowly move to increase the opening time to match the increase.
The issue with Merlin's parks are that risk taking is not allowed as staff are too scared in-case they don't meet budget, fail their targets and lose their jobs. Without risk though there is no innovation!
John
TS Member
Yet another example of how Alton Towers is being systematically run into the ground.
These cutbacks are completely unsustainable in the long run. Guests aren't stupid and are ever more aware of how the price no longer reflects the quality of the product. As the park's reputation sinks it'll be extremely difficult to turn it around - returning guests make up a huge proportion of the total visitor numbers, and future gate figures are sure to suffer as more and more people leave the park feeling aggrieved.
The way the park is operated makes me genuinely fear for the future.
These cutbacks are completely unsustainable in the long run. Guests aren't stupid and are ever more aware of how the price no longer reflects the quality of the product. As the park's reputation sinks it'll be extremely difficult to turn it around - returning guests make up a huge proportion of the total visitor numbers, and future gate figures are sure to suffer as more and more people leave the park feeling aggrieved.
The way the park is operated makes me genuinely fear for the future.
Croftybaby
TS Member
GaryH said:
Some parks may offer flexible closing as Dave suggested but the difference here is TRUST. I can rely on some of the other parks to adjust hours accordingly if there is a need, with Merlin I wouldn't expect them to change hours unless it was a last resort and then it would probably only be by half an hour.
One point that could be discussed, why not just open later in that week, then they can close later and the guests can still experience the event as it should be, in the dark! They could also save money on electric running rides in off peak times after 7pm... you hear that Merlin SAVE MONEY
Croftybaby
TS Member
They finished all the Halloween decorations already!!? ;D
Slugjc
TS Member
Ive been thinking, and here is what im suggesting to you all. I'm not saying these are right and you may disprove me (like I said before its like cluedo) Here we go...............
1) I'm not too annoyed that they are shutting the park at 7. Having been a few times over the years I've seen scarefest busy and also dead after 6. So it does seem sense that they should shut the park if they have noticed that the place is going to be a ghost town. (No pun Intended)
2) I've booked to go during one of weeks where they keep it open till 9. After staying at the hotel once, and then feeling like someone had run away with my wallet , I decided to stay at the Chained Oak. I am your side if you booked early and before this was announced. I would be sulking like the rest of them. Here's hoping that if you have booked to stay in the hotel that they provide DECENT entrainment for you, and that your trip wont be too ruined. however booking before is running a bit of gauntlet, I was worried that they would do this after last time I went in 2011.
3) There are some hardy souls who will travel to AT in late October/November and be there 10-9. I cant see any families doing this (most families would have run out of money/patience with there kids by around 5) if the weather is bad they would just want to get home. If like me you travel north you have to get to the M1.............. oh dear. Damp, cold car journeys are awful enough without being stuck in Derby.
4) You have to think that all MAJOR branded companies these are cutting cost just for the sake of it. Example being I bought a regular Twix the other day. How small are they now. AT will have focus groups and they will look at turn over during the event in the past. If the demand isn't there on these days. Then they will not bother supplying it simple as that. Cost cutting happens everywhere if we like it or not. With pressure and if they see that the demand will be there that week to keep it open, I hope that they do a U-turn. It would be more sense to us as a bunch of enthusiasts.
5) Scarefest is looking tied, its had a peak and its sliding down. I'm not sure weather people will bother coming no matter how hard they try and change it. The things that they provide at AT for and extortionate price can be done better cheaper and more nearby (Yorkshire scare ground for example that even use the same look on there flyers as AT) Plus I think once you have gone through a maze like some WW1 soldiers after a gas attack. No matter what story you put................. it'll still be the same.
There we go, this may be muddled but I was in a rush. Like I said you may agree disagree but I just wanted to put something down. Sit on the fence if you like.
But please god Merlin/AT just leave the park how we like it and love.
1) I'm not too annoyed that they are shutting the park at 7. Having been a few times over the years I've seen scarefest busy and also dead after 6. So it does seem sense that they should shut the park if they have noticed that the place is going to be a ghost town. (No pun Intended)
2) I've booked to go during one of weeks where they keep it open till 9. After staying at the hotel once, and then feeling like someone had run away with my wallet , I decided to stay at the Chained Oak. I am your side if you booked early and before this was announced. I would be sulking like the rest of them. Here's hoping that if you have booked to stay in the hotel that they provide DECENT entrainment for you, and that your trip wont be too ruined. however booking before is running a bit of gauntlet, I was worried that they would do this after last time I went in 2011.
3) There are some hardy souls who will travel to AT in late October/November and be there 10-9. I cant see any families doing this (most families would have run out of money/patience with there kids by around 5) if the weather is bad they would just want to get home. If like me you travel north you have to get to the M1.............. oh dear. Damp, cold car journeys are awful enough without being stuck in Derby.
4) You have to think that all MAJOR branded companies these are cutting cost just for the sake of it. Example being I bought a regular Twix the other day. How small are they now. AT will have focus groups and they will look at turn over during the event in the past. If the demand isn't there on these days. Then they will not bother supplying it simple as that. Cost cutting happens everywhere if we like it or not. With pressure and if they see that the demand will be there that week to keep it open, I hope that they do a U-turn. It would be more sense to us as a bunch of enthusiasts.
5) Scarefest is looking tied, its had a peak and its sliding down. I'm not sure weather people will bother coming no matter how hard they try and change it. The things that they provide at AT for and extortionate price can be done better cheaper and more nearby (Yorkshire scare ground for example that even use the same look on there flyers as AT) Plus I think once you have gone through a maze like some WW1 soldiers after a gas attack. No matter what story you put................. it'll still be the same.
There we go, this may be muddled but I was in a rush. Like I said you may agree disagree but I just wanted to put something down. Sit on the fence if you like.
But please god Merlin/AT just leave the park how we like it and love.
Croftybaby
TS Member
Good post but really it highlights the failings of Towers rather than justify the early closing times.
It's all greed, pure greed and it will come back and bite them in the ass.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/tsco/9010238/Tesco-CEO-Philip-Clarke-promises-big-investment-in-UK-business-despite-plunge-in-share-price.html
How embarrassing to have to go on TV and apologise to your customers for treating them like...
Why are people going home early? why does the event not attract the crowds? Why is it looking tired? Why are people choosing local venues for their Halloween experience?
Towers/Merlin need to stop looking at their crappy PDA surveys and focus groups of people who are probably just out for a free jolly; Would you call alton crap after hey have invited you and your family in for free for the day? (not sure how the FG works)
The best thing they could do is nip over to one of the more professional outfits and pinch the ideas and pull them off to a similar standard, not just rip them off as cheaply as possible.
Merlins attitude is arrogance, we don't give a toss, we got your money and you have no choice as we own nearly everything.
Again, I point you back to a certain other company who have recently had to swallow a massive portion of humble pie spending millions if not billions on refitting, re-branding, new marketing style all because they went around sticking two fingers up at their bread and butter customers.
Either do Halloween properly or don't bother at all, at least if there is no event then people can't complain about how bad it was. ;D
It's all greed, pure greed and it will come back and bite them in the ass.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/tsco/9010238/Tesco-CEO-Philip-Clarke-promises-big-investment-in-UK-business-despite-plunge-in-share-price.html
How embarrassing to have to go on TV and apologise to your customers for treating them like...
Why are people going home early? why does the event not attract the crowds? Why is it looking tired? Why are people choosing local venues for their Halloween experience?
Towers/Merlin need to stop looking at their crappy PDA surveys and focus groups of people who are probably just out for a free jolly; Would you call alton crap after hey have invited you and your family in for free for the day? (not sure how the FG works)
The best thing they could do is nip over to one of the more professional outfits and pinch the ideas and pull them off to a similar standard, not just rip them off as cheaply as possible.
Merlins attitude is arrogance, we don't give a toss, we got your money and you have no choice as we own nearly everything.
Again, I point you back to a certain other company who have recently had to swallow a massive portion of humble pie spending millions if not billions on refitting, re-branding, new marketing style all because they went around sticking two fingers up at their bread and butter customers.
Either do Halloween properly or don't bother at all, at least if there is no event then people can't complain about how bad it was. ;D
AstroDan
TS Team
I agree that the park should do a job well or not at all.
Sadly, we often see Alton Towers doing things but not as well as could have been:
- Dark Forest Retheme
- Scarefest Lighting/Atmosphere
- Cloud Cuckoo Land Painting
- Oblivion refurb
- X Sector toilets
The list could go on. The ONLY two things that Merlin have done in the park since taking over which I genuinely believe were done to the best of their ability are Battle Galleons (although it was the wrong ride, it looks great) and the outstanding Sharkbait Reef.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Sadly, we often see Alton Towers doing things but not as well as could have been:
- Dark Forest Retheme
- Scarefest Lighting/Atmosphere
- Cloud Cuckoo Land Painting
- Oblivion refurb
- X Sector toilets
The list could go on. The ONLY two things that Merlin have done in the park since taking over which I genuinely believe were done to the best of their ability are Battle Galleons (although it was the wrong ride, it looks great) and the outstanding Sharkbait Reef.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
I'm considering writing to Merlin and AT management - granted it may not change anything, but the more people who voice their opinions and concerns, the more chance someone there may sit up and listen and do something - after all a company that does not listen to its customers is eventually dead in the water.
Thinking of writing something along these lines (this is just a drafy by the way):
Dear ----- (who's the manager again?)
I write to you as a concerned customer and enthusiast of Alton Towers, a customer who has been visiting the park each year without fail since 1993 and who visits at least eight times during the year. Every year brings unique memories and some good and bad times in terms of developments in the park, though i'm writing to you on this occasion with reference to the Scarefest 2013 event and if you dont mind, one or two minor niggles which you need to be aware of:-
Firstly, Scarefest 2013. You may or not be aware but for many people Scarefest is the highlight of the theme park calendar. Its an event for which many book months in advance (I have already booked two nights in Alton Towers hotel for four guests for the Scarefest event) and its an event which usually guarantees fun, scares and more importantly, the unique Scarefest atmosphere you only get at night time in the park.
I've visited every Scarefest event and since its pinnacle of "excellence" in 2010/11 myself and others (read some of the Tripadvisor and enthusiast forums) have unfortunately seen the whole event get worse and worse. While last year's event saw the introduction of the excellent "Sanctuary" the rest of the park was ignored, and many people commented on how the place just felt like "Alton Towers at night" rather than a Scarefest and Halloween event.
Much of the lighting and effects we have seen over the years had been removed, for example the highly atmospheric lighting leading up towards Hex with the green and white writing on the walls, the red lighting on Nemesis, green lighting around Haunted Hollow, Halloween music, smoke machine on Rita, and characters walking around the park in costume we all absent. The Scarefest atmosphere of past had been completely erradicated.
Obviously, its been with great interest that myself and others have awaited news on this year's Scarefest event to see what is in store, and if any improvements will be made to get Scarefest back up to the standards of past. Unfortunately, with the recent news regarding reduced opening times and 5pm/7pm closures during Scarefest, it would seem this year's event may be even worse than last years.
While we all appreciate that the economic climate for all businesses is difficult, surely you must realise that if you continue to "downgrade" the visitors experience, that all these repeat customers, and all these people who renew their annual passes each year will get to the point where they will lose interest and no longer give their custom to you. You only have to read the various fan forums and public forums such as TripAdvisor to hear the general frustration with the park, in particular, with regards the cost of visiting, the opening hours and the lack of feeling like the person is getting a value for money day out. People are willing to pay high prices if they come away feeling like they have had a memorable experience.
While I appreciate budgets may be tight, the atmosphere on park and the feeling that is actually a Halloween event is crucial to your visitors. The odd coloured light here and there may not cost a great deal but adds a great deal to a persons visiting experience. Therefore, for 2013 please, please bring back the Scarefest atmosphere, re-introduce the lighting like in previous years, have the odd character roaming the park in character (e.g. people in the Thirteen "forest" area), and one thing which commonly is heard is how sad people are at the loss of all the "live" events, such as Hex Live, Duel Live etc. Again, placing a few characters in costume at key points througout a ride may not cost a great deal (particularly if its only for a few hours in the evening) but it adds a lot to someones vistiting experience. Haunted Hollow is also an area which is ideal for the Scarefest event, but I recall it only being used in one year for Scarefest, which was excellent (characters along the path, smoke, lighting) but it has never returned.
Myself and others fear that the reduction in opening times for Scarefest is a worrying sign that years "event" will just be another day in the park. Your website advertises Scarefest as an opportunity to ride the rides in the dark, its open 10am - late your website says. How angry are people going to be who have booked to stay in your hotels during the week only to find the gates will be closing at 7pm just as darkness is falling. I seriously urge you to reconsider this decision, and to think carefully about this years Scarefest, as if it keeps deteriorating as it is, there will less people visiting and the event may as well get cancelled in the future.
With regards the other minor niggles, the first issue is with The Smiler. As everyone agrees, this is a great addition to the park and the effort which has gone into the ride in terms of its themeing and presence is very much appreciated. However, the first concern is with the queueline - in the summer the queueline has no shade from the sun, its located below the ground level and surrounded by concrete. I have heard of instances where people have nearly passed out due to the heat and you should consider in places along the queue line having some form of shelter placed on top of the queueline fences just to provide some shade. The second issue is with the ride reliability. While we appreciate new rides will take time to bed in, and down time will occur, as I write this, the Smiler has been closed since yesterday (30th July) and remains closed today, but looking through your website, your Twitter feed, your Facebook feed - there is no mention whatsoever of this. Dont you think guests who may be travelling some distance to ride (given the amount of TV Adverts on at the moment) deserve to be told if the ride is not operating?
The second issue is with regards Fast Track sales this year. While no one disagrees Fast Track tickets can be a good idea on busy days, the high volume being sold this year, not just at the park entrance and Information kiosks, but also in actual ride queuelines, and just outside ride entrances, has done nothing but alienate guests waiting to get on the ride, and add to the lengthy wait times. On occasion, some Fast Track queues themselves have been in excess of 30 minutes. While I dont have the answer, the selling of Fast Track tickets should not occur in queue lines or just outside ride entrances, and perhaps giving guests time allocations (AM or PM) and only selling a set number of passes for morning or afternoon, so at least those paying £46 to visit and not buy Fast Track's will still have chance to get on more than 2 or 3 major rides during their day out.
I have written this as a loyal customer who has always felt the "magic" of Alton Towers everytime they have visited. I renew my Annual Pass every year and spend a considerable amount of money on travel, hotel stays and merchandise when I do visit and i'm writing to you today as I do not want to see the park I love continue to go further and further down hill. Myself and others can provide further details of "ideas" for Scarefest from events past which would not cost a great deal to implement, but which would retain and enhance the event's presence and ensure guests continue to return each year in greater numbers for the event - if your interested in hearing them of course....
Regards
Me)
Thinking of writing something along these lines (this is just a drafy by the way):
Dear ----- (who's the manager again?)
I write to you as a concerned customer and enthusiast of Alton Towers, a customer who has been visiting the park each year without fail since 1993 and who visits at least eight times during the year. Every year brings unique memories and some good and bad times in terms of developments in the park, though i'm writing to you on this occasion with reference to the Scarefest 2013 event and if you dont mind, one or two minor niggles which you need to be aware of:-
Firstly, Scarefest 2013. You may or not be aware but for many people Scarefest is the highlight of the theme park calendar. Its an event for which many book months in advance (I have already booked two nights in Alton Towers hotel for four guests for the Scarefest event) and its an event which usually guarantees fun, scares and more importantly, the unique Scarefest atmosphere you only get at night time in the park.
I've visited every Scarefest event and since its pinnacle of "excellence" in 2010/11 myself and others (read some of the Tripadvisor and enthusiast forums) have unfortunately seen the whole event get worse and worse. While last year's event saw the introduction of the excellent "Sanctuary" the rest of the park was ignored, and many people commented on how the place just felt like "Alton Towers at night" rather than a Scarefest and Halloween event.
Much of the lighting and effects we have seen over the years had been removed, for example the highly atmospheric lighting leading up towards Hex with the green and white writing on the walls, the red lighting on Nemesis, green lighting around Haunted Hollow, Halloween music, smoke machine on Rita, and characters walking around the park in costume we all absent. The Scarefest atmosphere of past had been completely erradicated.
Obviously, its been with great interest that myself and others have awaited news on this year's Scarefest event to see what is in store, and if any improvements will be made to get Scarefest back up to the standards of past. Unfortunately, with the recent news regarding reduced opening times and 5pm/7pm closures during Scarefest, it would seem this year's event may be even worse than last years.
While we all appreciate that the economic climate for all businesses is difficult, surely you must realise that if you continue to "downgrade" the visitors experience, that all these repeat customers, and all these people who renew their annual passes each year will get to the point where they will lose interest and no longer give their custom to you. You only have to read the various fan forums and public forums such as TripAdvisor to hear the general frustration with the park, in particular, with regards the cost of visiting, the opening hours and the lack of feeling like the person is getting a value for money day out. People are willing to pay high prices if they come away feeling like they have had a memorable experience.
While I appreciate budgets may be tight, the atmosphere on park and the feeling that is actually a Halloween event is crucial to your visitors. The odd coloured light here and there may not cost a great deal but adds a great deal to a persons visiting experience. Therefore, for 2013 please, please bring back the Scarefest atmosphere, re-introduce the lighting like in previous years, have the odd character roaming the park in character (e.g. people in the Thirteen "forest" area), and one thing which commonly is heard is how sad people are at the loss of all the "live" events, such as Hex Live, Duel Live etc. Again, placing a few characters in costume at key points througout a ride may not cost a great deal (particularly if its only for a few hours in the evening) but it adds a lot to someones vistiting experience. Haunted Hollow is also an area which is ideal for the Scarefest event, but I recall it only being used in one year for Scarefest, which was excellent (characters along the path, smoke, lighting) but it has never returned.
Myself and others fear that the reduction in opening times for Scarefest is a worrying sign that years "event" will just be another day in the park. Your website advertises Scarefest as an opportunity to ride the rides in the dark, its open 10am - late your website says. How angry are people going to be who have booked to stay in your hotels during the week only to find the gates will be closing at 7pm just as darkness is falling. I seriously urge you to reconsider this decision, and to think carefully about this years Scarefest, as if it keeps deteriorating as it is, there will less people visiting and the event may as well get cancelled in the future.
With regards the other minor niggles, the first issue is with The Smiler. As everyone agrees, this is a great addition to the park and the effort which has gone into the ride in terms of its themeing and presence is very much appreciated. However, the first concern is with the queueline - in the summer the queueline has no shade from the sun, its located below the ground level and surrounded by concrete. I have heard of instances where people have nearly passed out due to the heat and you should consider in places along the queue line having some form of shelter placed on top of the queueline fences just to provide some shade. The second issue is with the ride reliability. While we appreciate new rides will take time to bed in, and down time will occur, as I write this, the Smiler has been closed since yesterday (30th July) and remains closed today, but looking through your website, your Twitter feed, your Facebook feed - there is no mention whatsoever of this. Dont you think guests who may be travelling some distance to ride (given the amount of TV Adverts on at the moment) deserve to be told if the ride is not operating?
The second issue is with regards Fast Track sales this year. While no one disagrees Fast Track tickets can be a good idea on busy days, the high volume being sold this year, not just at the park entrance and Information kiosks, but also in actual ride queuelines, and just outside ride entrances, has done nothing but alienate guests waiting to get on the ride, and add to the lengthy wait times. On occasion, some Fast Track queues themselves have been in excess of 30 minutes. While I dont have the answer, the selling of Fast Track tickets should not occur in queue lines or just outside ride entrances, and perhaps giving guests time allocations (AM or PM) and only selling a set number of passes for morning or afternoon, so at least those paying £46 to visit and not buy Fast Track's will still have chance to get on more than 2 or 3 major rides during their day out.
I have written this as a loyal customer who has always felt the "magic" of Alton Towers everytime they have visited. I renew my Annual Pass every year and spend a considerable amount of money on travel, hotel stays and merchandise when I do visit and i'm writing to you today as I do not want to see the park I love continue to go further and further down hill. Myself and others can provide further details of "ideas" for Scarefest from events past which would not cost a great deal to implement, but which would retain and enhance the event's presence and ensure guests continue to return each year in greater numbers for the event - if your interested in hearing them of course....
Regards
Me
)