Security at Theme Parks and Other Public Places

[delta79]

I believe this is more a disabilities awareness issues. I hope they are going to be given so extra training and support for interactions with guests.


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[pluk]

You consider it reasonable for security to temporarily gag disabled guests?

Yes, absolutely. It's a necessity.

Security checks and searches are inconvenient and intrusive to everyone, especially so for you clearly and I don't envy you that for a second, but they need to be done.

In terms of legality, you voluntarily consent to search by conditions of entry. If you don't consent you are free to chose not to enter. This will therefore come under general equality legislation which simply calls for 'reasonable adjustments' to accommodate people with different needs. It would simply not be reasonable for anyone to evade the security search on the basis of disability due to the obvious significant risk such evasion would leave. This obviously leaves you in a position of discomfort for a short period, as it does everyone being searched to a much lesser extent, it's up to you to decide whether that is worth it for you but it is not the fault of Thorpe Park or the staff that that discomfort is caused.

I'm sure not every member of security at every location is going to be perfect in every situation, but from this and your previous posts on security checks it feels like you approach the situation looking for a problem, of expecting an adjustment that is simply not reasonable. These people are just getting their job done, I'm sure it'd go more smoothly if worked with them rather than against them.

 

[imanautie]

Yes, absolutely. It's a necessity.

Security checks and searches are inconvenient and intrusive to everyone, especially so for you clearly and I don't envy you that for a second, but they need to be done.

In terms of legality, you voluntarily consent to search by conditions of entry. If you don't consent you are free to chose not to enter. This will therefore come under general equality legislation which simply calls for 'reasonable adjustments' to accommodate people with different needs. It would simply not be reasonable for anyone to evade the security search on the basis of disability due to the obvious significant risk such evasion would leave. This obviously leaves you in a position of discomfort for a short period, as it does everyone being searched to a much lesser extent, it's up to you to decide whether that is worth it for you but it is not the fault of Thorpe Park or the staff that that discomfort is caused.

I'm sure not every member of security at every location is going to be perfect in every situation, but from this and your previous posts on security checks it feels like you approach the situation looking for a problem, of expecting an adjustment that is simply not reasonable. These people are just getting their job done, I'm sure it'd go more smoothly if worked with them rather than against them.

I'm autistic, they're typically not. There are going to be clashes.

I don't go out looking for conflicts with security, but being autistic tends to make you look dodgy.
And again my issue isn't the search itself if you read my previous comments.

Edit: so I'm crystal clear, all I'm asking for is them to place my device at the admissions end of the table once they've checked it, not the car park end-that doesn't stop them searching so should? Be considered reasonable

 

[RoyJess]

@imanautie don't you carry a spare AAC (non electronic, paper/card form) with you, as a back up, just in-case your Electronic AAC stops working, gets damage or you lose it?

You could carry on you some communication cards, here are a couple that Stickman Communications sell or you can design your own, print off and laminate yourself. You can also search her website for more communication card ideas

https://stickmancommunications.co.uk/product/aac-card/

https://stickmancommunications.co.uk/product/write-card/

https://stickmancommunications.co.uk/product/asd-eye-contact-card/


I fully understand how you feel with the anxiety going through security. Jess and I have the same anxiety when going though security. Jess has a medical condition which can easily be affected if people don't know what they are doing around her. Many security are good around her, but it only takes the one that can be a bit heavy handed with her. We have 5 bags (4 of which are attached to her wheelchair) all containing medical and disability medicines, medical and personal needs. Some of the things we carry can be quiet personal and sensitive and which are things that you don't really want to get out in public. We carry detail medical paperwork explaining every thing.

Spoiler

Luckily all the bags attached to the wheelchair looks like that are part of the wheelchair and get overlooked. Her hand bag gets overlooked, it is one of those stuffed cuddly toy type back packs, to the security it just looks like she is bringing in a cuddly toy Are we a security risk, well I've been visiting many attractions including Themeparks for the past 50yrs, if I was a security risk, I would have done something bad by now

If we go in somewhere where the security would like to do a thorough bag search, we are quiet happy to comply and if necessarily, we ask if we can have a search in private for Jess' dignity.

Fortunately the security at Alton knows us and we have very little problem there, however the only time we have issues there and that is usually for the fireworks event where they contract in the security specially for the event.

 

[imanautie]

@imanautie don't you carry a spare AAC (non electronic, paper/card form) with you, as a back up, just in-case your Electronic AAC stops working, gets damage or you lose it?

You could carry on you some communication cards, here are a couple that Stickman Communications sell or you can design your own, print off and laminate yourself. You can also search her website for more communication card ideas

https://stickmancommunications.co.uk/product/aac-card/

https://stickmancommunications.co.uk/product/write-card/

https://stickmancommunications.co.uk/product/asd-eye-contact-card/


I fully understand how you feel with the anxiety going through security. Jess and I have the same anxiety when going though security. Jess has a medical condition which can easily be affected if people don't know what they are doing around her. Many security are good around her, but it only takes the one that can be a bit heavy handed with her. We have 5 bags (4 of which are attached to her wheelchair) all containing medical and disability medicines, medical and personal needs. Some of the things we carry can be quiet personal and sensitive and which are things that you don't really want to get out in public. We carry detail medical paperwork explaining every thing.

Spoiler

Luckily all the bags attached to the wheelchair looks like that are part of the wheelchair and get overlooked. Her hand bag gets overlooked, it is one of those stuffed cuddly toy type back packs, to the security it just looks like she is bringing in a cuddly toy Are we a security risk, well I've been visiting many attractions including Themeparks for the past 50yrs, if I was a security risk, I would have done something bad by now

If we go in somewhere where the security would like to do a thorough bag search, we are quiet happy to comply and if necessarily, we ask if we can have a search in private for Jess' dignity.

Fortunately the security at Alton knows us and we have very little problem there, however the only time we have issues there and that is usually for the fireworks event where they contract in the security specially for the event.

I really should carry some non high tech back ups with me, it just sucks I've got to think about low tech backups because some people place my device on one end of a table after being asked to place on the other.

 

[jon81uk]

I really should carry some non high tech back ups with me, it just sucks I've got to think about low tech backups because some people place my device on one end of a table after being asked to place on the other.

People are human, they probably weren't paying attention and put something down that they have no idea what it is or why it is important to you. I doubt they were deliberately trying to be difficult but just made an error.
I don't know what your condition is like so I apologise if this situation wouldn't work, but you could say that you cannot put the device down until they confirm they will put it where you need it. Once that is agreed then you carry on.

 

[imanautie]

People are human, they probably weren't paying attention and put something down that they have no idea what it is or why it is important to you. I doubt they were deliberately trying to be difficult but just made an error.
I don't know what your condition is like so I apologise if this situation wouldn't work, but you could say that you cannot put the device down until they confirm they will put it where you need it. Once that is agreed then you carry on.

I don't think they were deliberately trying to be such a problem but when people find out your non speaking the shift in demeanour is obvious, so I'm in little doubt they read the note.

I do now have a phase prepped asking them to place it past the scanner but haven't had the issue come up again as most of the time they don't even ask me to take it off.

 

[tayspru]

It does appear that the staff acted perfectly reasonably within the remit of their job, but being unfamiliar with your specific situation perhaps did not make the most accommodating of choices .

However other security procedures would do the same . I work at an Airport, any portable electronic devices no matter their function are placed on a tray and are retrieved at the far side of the baggage hall , much further away than the end of a table. As others have mentioned unless you specifically let them know you would need access to the device as soon as practical , they weren’t to know.

 

[pluk]

And again my issue isn't the search itself if you read my previous comments.

Edit: so I'm crystal clear, all I'm asking for is them to place my device at the admissions end of the table once they've checked it, not the car park end-that doesn't stop them searching so should? Be considered reasonable

No, your original post was complaining about the search happening at all.

FFS THORPE security no you don't take someone's AAC device away from them put it in a basket away from them then insist they walk through metal detectors and you check their bag (read look at it...) Before faffing about and giving it back to them.

Now you want to complain about the length of a table. A few steps further to collect your device. Really? The invonvinence to you of not having your device for any amount of time is not lost on me, but you are being quite unreasonable in your expectations and its not nice to see you rubbishing people on here for doing a difficult job.

 

[imanautie]

No, your original post was complaining about the search happening at all.



Now you want to complain about the length of a table. A few steps further to collect your device. Really? The invonvinence to you of not having your device for any amount of time is not lost on me, but you are being quite unreasonable in your expectations and its not nice to see you rubbishing people on here for doing a difficult job.

1. Read the first bit of my post, my issues as I said was it being placed away from me NOT the search itself


2 Considering my history at bag search can you really blame me for potencially not having a way to quickly answer securities questions about what's in my bag?


Until you depend on a device to do something as basic as speaking you won't get just how painful it can be being without it for longer then needed, especially in a situation related to a previous truamatic event.
I will complain quite publicly when all they need to do is place it on the other side of a table, it's such a small thing for them to do but it has such a major impact on how smoothly I can handle the search.

 

[tayspru]

Considering your history at bag search, did you ask them to leave the device in an accessible place ?

 

[imanautie]

Considering your history at bag search, did you ask them to leave the device in an accessible place ?

I showed them this and pointed at the admissions end of the table.

 

[tayspru]

See there’s no direct request for what you’re expecting there . While yes it would be nice if they had been more accommodating, it’s unfair to lambast them for doing their job in the way that they are trained to do it. Let’s not forget Thorpe has had high profile security incidents in the past so they are likely trained not to deviate from protocol.

A lesson learned for next time I hope, you’ll have the time to add a custom message so that this doesn’t happen to you again.

 

[RoyJess]

From what I understand, they have the right to search any disability equipment, but I also get where @imanautie is coming from, taking his ACC away is like temporary taking someone hearing aid, vision glasses or even a wheelchair away and expecting them to still be able to hear, see or walk like normal.

What the non disable don't understand, that any mobility equipment is classed as an extension of the disable person. It is classed as their personal space, even if they are currently not using it. So having an ACC examined and moved out of reach, the person it belongs to would have felt very much violated. It might seem like a trivial thing to a non disable person, but this really is a big thing to the disable person.

I don't fully know the law regarding security guards, I know they are allowed to search disability and medical equipment. But what I also know that moving mobility equipment out of reach of the user is an offence.

The ACC might have only been moved out of reach for a brief moment in time, but in the mind of someone with Autism, this may seem like an eternity.

@imanautie you could write a letter to the security company with an complaint. You should have 6months minus a day from the date of the when it happened to complain to them.

You could also contact the disability rights for advice https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/equality-act-and-disabled-people

or the Equality Advisory Support Service (EASS) who have helped us in the past http://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/.

or you could try the equality human rights https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/equality-and-human-rights-helpline-advisers.

Let us know how you get on

 

[imanautie]

From what I understand, they have the right to search any disability equipment, but I also get where @imanautie is coming from, taking his ACC away is like temporary taking someone hearing aid, vision glasses or even a wheelchair away and expecting them to still be able to hear, see or walk like normal.

What the non disable don't understand, that any mobility equipment is classed as an extension of the disable person. It is classed as their personal space, even if they are currently not using it. So having an ACC examined and moved out of reach, the person it belongs to would have felt very much violated. It might seem like a trivial thing to a non disable person, but this really is a big thing to the disable person.

I don't fully know the law regarding security guards, I know they are allowed to search disability and medical equipment. But what I also know that moving mobility equipment out of reach of the user is an offence.

The ACC might have only been moved out of reach for a brief moment in time, but in the mind of someone with Autism, this may seem like an eternity.

@imanautie you could write a letter to the security company with an complaint. You should have 6months minus a day from the date of the when it happened to complain to them.

You could also contact the disability rights for advice https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/equality-act-and-disabled-people

or the Equality Advisory Support Service (EASS) who have helped us in the past http://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/.

or you could try the equality human rights https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/equality-and-human-rights-helpline-advisers.

Let us know how you get on

I went and logged a case with island help and information on the day (19th April) got given two priority passes and told someone would follow up.
No one has, Ive been expecting them to phone me about it (Which would be ironic) but nothing, not even an email


Edit: exactly @RoyJess like many disabled people I don't view my aac voice as seperate from me hence me saying my voice (even through I do often call it Scott)

 

[delta79]

This is a emotive subject. And @RoyJess has written a very good post explaining how this affects equipment users.
From my point of view, it was not a preplanned act. More of a oversight or failure to link training to real world.
A pre set line saying 'this is my voice, i need it back as soon as possible.' May help.

Staff can not be trained in every possibility. However training them to ask key questions and to act in a caring way can be.



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[RoyJess]

I went and logged a case with island help and information on the day (19th April) got given two priority passes and told someone would follow up.
No one has, Ive been expecting them to phone me about it (Which would be ironic) but nothing, not even an email

At least you got some form of result. I mentioned elsewhere on here last year that Jess and I took someone to court and which we won the case back in 2019. One of the lessons that I learnt from it, and that is to get everything in writing. If you have a verbal conversation or physical visit which getting it in writing is not possible, I would now follow this up by sending the company/person an email/letter* summarising the details of what happened or/and what was said. That way you have some form of a record of what happened just in-case you need to chase it up or take further legal action. If you want a reply, I always end the message with I await your response. Might have also been useful to take down the name of the person that dealt with your situation on the day (both the security name as well as the person at the island help and information).

*if sending a letter, make a copy and when you send, get it signed for

 

[imanautie]

This is a emotive subject. And @RoyJess has written a very good post explaining how this affects equipment users.
From my point of view, it was not a preplanned act. More of a oversight or failure to link training to real world.
A pre set line saying 'this is my voice, i need it back as soon as possible.' May help.

Staff can not be trained in every possibility. However training them to ask key questions and to act in a caring way can be.



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Exactly, it needs staff who don't act on auto pilot, and yes I probably should add that this is my voice... Bit as a phase in predictable

 

[RoyJess]

@imanautie, I would message the Guest services to follow up. Make sure you write it as and make it clear to them that your message is just a follow up and not a complaint.

Keep it short and brief about

> what happened that day
> make it clear that the ACC is your disability aid and is an extension of your personal space. What your ACC is and why you need it.
> how the incident affected you
> tell them that you did visited the guest services on the day and made a complaint and that you did recived two priority passes
> you were informed that they would be contacting you regards the situation and that you are simply following up on it and you await their response.

Give them a week to reply and if they don't, then chase them up again

 

[imanautie]

@imanautie, I would message the Guest services to follow up. Make sure you write it as and make it clear to them that your message is just a follow up and not a complaint.

Keep it short and brief about

> what happened that day
> make it clear that the ACC is your disability aid and is an extension of your personal space. What your ACC is and why you need it.
> how the incident affected you
> tell them that you did visited the guest services on the day and made a complaint and that you did recived two priority passes
> you were informed that they would be contacting you regards the situation and that you are simply following up on it and you await their response.

Give them a week to reply and if they don't, then chase them up again

I haven't yet sent this email (waiting for the weekend when I'm at THORPE again), but with Varney's recent bragging about merlin accessibility I brought it up in a reply to him (not that it's actually him behind said account...) and THORPE replied asking for my contact information.



(ironically I believe it's the same person who basically brushed me off in my last DM about it).