Six Flags Quiddiya

[Zeock]

The UAE has laws discriminating against women and LGBT+ people, yet plenty of enthusiasts go there without a moment's hesitation. China are run by an authoritarian government who impose wide-ranging restrictions on their citizens' lives and have previously resorted to tactics such as barricading people inside their homes during COVID and invading Hong Kong, yet plenty of enthusiasts still visit China without flinching. Even the USA has arguably done ethically questionable things. Large parts of the country recently outlawed abortion following the overturning of Roe v Wade, its lax gun laws are an ever-contentious issue, and around 50% of states still have the death penalty. Yet you don't see any enthusiasts questioning whether they want to go to the USA or any of these countries.

I wouldn't go to the UAE, but I am not sure about China. I would say that the USA is nowhere near as ethically questionable as Saudi Arabia.

 

[Matt N]

I wouldn't go to the UAE, but I am not sure about China. I would say that the USA is nowhere near as ethically questionable as Saudi Arabia.

I'm not saying that it is. However, I do sometimes wonder; where would people draw the line?

It's a tough one, for sure.

 

[AT86]

I'm not saying they shouldn't by any stretch of the imagination. As I said at the start of my post, it is entirely up to the individual to decide whether they'd like to or not, and I respect their choice either way.

However, I just thought that it was an interesting point to consider.

In your post you said:

Yet you don't see any enthusiasts questioning whether they want to go to the USA or any of these countries. [UAE etc]

The implication was that this means they shouldn't question Saudi Arabia either. However if I misunderstood I apologise.

I would however strongly disagree with that statement. People do question whether they should visit these countries, I know that because I am one of them. Perhaps some of the straight male enthusiasts don't. But it is not the case for all of us.

 

[Matt N]

In your post you said:



The implication was that this means they shouldn't question Saudi Arabia either. However if I misunderstood I apologise.

I would however strongly disagree with that statement. People do question whether they should visit these countries, I know that because I am one of them. Perhaps some of the straight male enthusiasts don't. But it is not the case for all of us.

That implication certainly wasn't intended, and I do think that I worded that phrase slightly poorly, in hindsight. I apologise.

Perhaps they do. Perhaps a better thing for me to say would have been that people don't tend to outwardly question whether they should visit countries in quite the same way that loads of people have been openly declaring that they'd never visit SA since the announcement of this coaster.

I absolutely respect people's choice either way; it's a very personal decision, and a very tough ethical dilemma. Indeed, I myself do sometimes wonder about it. I also fully appreciate that as a white, cisgender male who isn't in a homosexual relationship, I am, for lack of a better term, inherently privileged within society as it currently works. As such, I will probably have a slightly different perspective on the issue to someone who is more personally persecuted by Saudi Arabia's draconian laws.

 

[tayspru]

This rollercoaster is going to be a maintenance nightmare. That is a fact.

The very harsh environment alongside the extreme engineering challenges are going to bring alot of problems, plus, Intamin yada yada yada...only one company who could take a project like this one though.

The thing they do have though, is large amounts of cash which will be thrown at this to help minimise any issues.

Looks like I'm going to Saudi Arabia, riding a coaster as extreme as this is simply not an opportunity I can pass on. It is like something you would build drunk on Planet Coaster. Get me on that plane, this could be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Once in a lifetime as I’d be put to death shortly after my ride thanks to their archaic laws

 

[MellowPasta]

Track inspection on that thing is surely to be a nightmare?!

Regarding human rights, as a gay man I can’t imagine myself ever making the trip. I reckon half these nuts secretly want it up the chute anyway.

May go in years to come and at least die doing what makes me happy. Have a fling with a closeted Arab, ride the worlds tallest coaster and then off with his head, not before getting some though.

 

[Deleted member 17985]

I've been to SA before and wouldn't otherwise rush back, for a myriad of reasons. I definitely didn't hate it though, and certainly didn't get killed, it just wasn't for me. Everyone was extremely friendly though, and I never felt uneasy or in danger. I don't declare my sexuality when walking down the street, nor do I do so when I'm traveling. Honestly, you'd probably have a higher chance of being in danger in some of the cities of the UK, but I understand its absolutely not for everyone, and a real cultural leap if new to that part of the world.

My gay ass will absolutely be going out there again when it opens. This project is just absolutely bonkers - the sort of thing kid me would laugh at - and so I must go and laugh in person, ride it and likely never go back, unless they build another bonkers project.

 

[Wildboy1983]

I too am conflicted about this whole project. As a rollercoaster enthusiast this ride looks to be the ultimate ride experience and draws me to it in the same way that Kingda Ka and Formula Rossa have in the past. It looks to be an essential credit by what I have seen.

I am gay but I don't really believe a visit to SA as a tourist would actually jeopardize my safety any more than being on holiday in other parts of the world with the reassurance of the government stance on accepting gay tourists.

My partner recently refused to come with me on a trip to Poland due to the attitudes towards LGBTQ and so I went with my brother instead. We had a great time and there is no reason to believe that I couldn't do the same with this place too but there is a moral battle of principles which is holding me back.

Questions I am asking myself, is it right to sponsor a country/economy where people really do get murdered for being gay?

Is it fair that as a person that has total sexual freedom, I should be allowed to travel around the country unchallenged and take advantage of that 'privilege' when SA gay people are so severely oppressed?

Would i feel comfortable knowing that I have an untouchable status just because I came from somewhere else almost akin to visiting a refugee camp to eat all the food.

I know that I could visit and experience it if I really want to but I'm still battling with the question of should I...

 

[Tim]

A few pages back a comparison was made between North Korea and Saudi Arabia. Something about it bothered me and I just realised what it is.
Both places treat their workers terribly but the middle eastern states are doing it to impress us! They build these grand projects to convince the rest of the world it's a great place to be, in the hope we'll come spend our money there (and support their economy once the oil runs out).
A few people have already questioned how they are building the coaster on the side of a mountain and in the middle of a desert. Answer; they'll probably be sending underpaid workers up there with no care if they lose a few people while building it. Just like what was seen with the FIFA stadiums.

For that reason I think there is a fair moral question on if we should be considering visiting.
I'm Male, Straight and from the UK, so if I did decide to visit I'd have no reason to be concerned for my own safety. But I still don't think I'd chose to go there for a holiday because the region is such an ethically grey area it makes me feel uneasy.

 

[Deleted member 17985]

Sorry if this is veering off topic (reign me in!) - I spent most of my adult life doing the activismy boycotty things and it literally did nothing other than getting me likes on social media. It wasn't until I actually went to SA I realised how easy it is to be swung into hysteria - the reality of it was basically like visiting a new country - shiny hotels, shiny shops, shiny people, smiles and welcomes. Definitely not a holiday location unless you're into all that, though I was lucky to be able to go see some archeological sites which was cool.

I was irrelevant to their economy and I can't stop human rights abuses happening in my own town, never mind in another country. Women are killed every two days in the UK! Boycotts and ethical tourism lead to needing to be hardline across the board. No products made in China, no petrol in your car, no sweeties from the service station full of palm oil, hell, I'd even say no visiting London...a city full of trafficking, Russian and arab families with households full of women and children sold into slavery. I've heard stories of foreign nationals being found living in outhouses for years, in servitude to families here in Ireland! Man-made horror is everywhere, unfortunately.

To get back on topic - on the subject of the construction of FF, surely Intamin would be involved directly, more than just clipboards on the ground? I can't imagine them greenlighting a first of its kind project like this knowing potentially unskilled, underpaid migrant workers would be building it? The potential for a PR disaster alone would be high, surely? I don't know enough about coaster construction, so happy to be corrected!

 

[tayspru]

Sorry if this is veering off topic (reign me in!) - I spent most of my adult life doing the activismy boycotty things and it literally did nothing other than getting me likes on social media. It wasn't until I actually went to SA I realised how easy it is to be swung into hysteria - the reality of it was basically like visiting a new country - shiny hotels, shiny shops, shiny people, smiles and welcomes. Definitely not a holiday location unless you're into all that, though I was lucky to be able to go see some archeological sites which was cool.

I was irrelevant to their economy and I can't stop human rights abuses happening in my own town, never mind in another country. Women are killed every two days in the UK! Boycotts and ethical tourism lead to needing to be hardline across the board. No products made in China, no petrol in your car, no sweeties from the service station full of palm oil, hell, I'd even say no visiting London...a city full of trafficking, Russian and arab families with households full of women and children sold into slavery. I've heard stories of foreign nationals being found living in outhouses for years, in servitude to families here in Ireland! Man-made horror is everywhere, unfortunately.

To get back on topic - on the subject of the construction of FF, surely Intamin would be involved directly, more than just clipboards on the ground? I can't imagine them greenlighting a first of its kind project like this knowing potentially unskilled, underpaid migrant workers would be building it? The potential for a PR disaster alone would be high, surely? I don't know enough about coaster construction, so happy to be corrected!

Intamin design and fabricate, but most coaster companies contract out construction.

Your “I’m alright jack” is a delightful way to go through life, however

 

[Poisson]

This looks absurd and also like it'll rip itself to shreds in under 5 years. Very Intamin.

 

[Deleted member 17985]

Intamin design and fabricate, but most coaster companies contract out construction.

Your “I’m alright jack” is a delightful way to go through life, however

It is, I've done my time.

 

[Wildboy1983]

An update I thought some of you may be interested... My cousin spent two years in SA as a feminist, writing a book about women's rights so I put forward my thoughts/ questions to her and this was her response...

Hello my darling cousin!

Ah a predicament indeed. I am rather jet-lagged, do forgive me if my response is at all clumsy, but these are my thoughts.

Homosexuality in Saudi Arabia is a complicated issue. Gay rights are indeed, not recognised. It is at the same time, in a way, the gayest place I’ve ever been. The enforced segregation of the sexes means same-sex relationships are extremely prevalent. The subject simply isn’t discussed in public. While I do not wish to minimise my repugnance at the fact the law still exists, to my knowledge, capital punishment for homosexuality has not been practiced for more than twenty years.

The government is in a somewhat tricky position of wanting to be more progressive, while being aware that they still have a very conservative population and culture changes slower than laws. Thus you get these kind of paradoxes; the official Saudi tourism website welcomes LGBTQ vistors - but only in its English version; the capital punishment law exists, but is not used. I was actually just talking to a Saudi princess the other day about how much she’d particularly like LGBTQ rights to move faster. As a rule, Saudis tend to be extremely polite and hospitable in public to outsiders, so I don’t think you’ll experience any unpleasantness, and the religious police are almost extinct.

My only real concern would be booking a hotel room. When I was in the country, even a hetrosexual couple could not stay together without showing their wedding certificate. I know that law went out a few years ago, but customs tend to continue in the backwaters. I would choose a big chain, where staff are more likely to be international and prepared for these changes, and maybe even a twin room (in the nice chains you normally get two doubles, so wouldn’t change much for you in practice). I would also avoid PDAs. This is not just a gay issue, it would also be shocking to see a straight couple being affectionate in public.

I don’t want to pretend that LGBTQ and women’s oppression are the same thing (although both certainly the product of rigid patriarchal power structures), but I guess I can relate on the level that when I decided to move there, when things were still much harder for women, a lot of people were surprised that I, as a feminist (and as kafir - non-believer) would choose to live in such a society. But that was kind of my reason for going, I wanted to understand. At the root, I strongly believe that we all have more in common than we do apart, and I also don’t think cultures change or grow when they are kept in a vacuum. I know that women who thought non-Muslims were “bad” and feminism a dirty word, changed their preconceptions a lot in the course of our friendships (and I learnt something from them too). I don’t pretend you could build that kind of rapport in a few days, but someone will probably twig you guys are a couple, realise you’re actually nice, normal people, and their own beliefs will soften a bit. Accepting gay people from outside is the first step in normalising LGBTQ relationships in their own communities. For me that would be “the other side of the coin” you mentioned.

In sum, if you do decide to go, I certainly wouldn’t judge you. I would place you more in the trailblazer than the traitor category . At the same time, if you feel it’s not time yet, I quite understand.

Well that was a very long, and possibly not very helpful response! If you have any more questions, you want a call, or you’d like me to speak to someone I know in the country about current attitudes, very happy to do so.

 

[DistortAMG]

Intamin design and fabricate, but most coaster companies contract out construction.

Your “I’m alright jack” is a delightful way to go through life, however

Exactly this, Intamin are very skilled mechanical and electrical engineers, construction engineers they are not. Best practices will prevail, Intamin will no doubt be involved with boots on the ground, but it is always a great idea (more so than ever in extreme engineering like this) is to leave what you do best to yourself and leave what they do best to them.

Nothing would spell more of a disaster for a project of this calibre than sticking your big fat, succulent, King Charles sausage fingers into parts of the pie you are neither skilled, competent or qualified in.

 

[RicketyCricket]

Aside from the obvious issues - I'm not interested in visiting because it looks like the most boring country in the world. Milton Keynes with mega money.

That's not to say I'll never visit, but I'd rather spend my money going somewhere I'm allowed to have a pint without bribing someone.

 

[Zeock]

Here is the construction progress of yet another Six Flags rollercoaster with the name Iron Rattler. Credit: u/Straight-Hold-4444 on r/rollercoasters.

From: https://www.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/comments/182fhlz/iron_rattler_at_six_flags_qiddiya_progress/

 

[DanJB]

The Vekoma tilt coaster has started testing:

 

[dave___]

Looks to me like the back row is the place to be on that

 

[IDB]

There’s a video of their giant gyro swing (Zamperla Giga Discovery) being tested. I’d post the link, but the Twitter account in question has I think scalped the video and posted it without original credit.