Smiler vs Nemesis

[BarryZola]

I've got to say, I also remember it being fast and forceful in its opening year. It's always had me coming off with that bit of dizziness. I can't say I've noticed it getting noticeably faster or more forceful over the years. If it has, it's been very marginal. It's always been a beast, which is why it's had a great reputation from the beginning. Looking forward to getting back on it and I'm sure it'll still be an absolute beast. And yes, it's better than The Smiler.

 

[DistortAMG]

I am sure Nemesis did take your photo on the first corkscrew, first time I rode it was around 2002. It was an absolute beast back then.

 

[mo237]

For me, the short answer - Nemesis any day of the week.

The long answer...

If we're taking things such as nostalgia into account, then theoretically, Smiler should easily win this battle. I first visited in the back end of 2012 and wondered what would end up in that pit, and used the build as a way into theme parks - so I owe a lot to it really. It was mysterious, tempting - what on earth could they do next? What will 14 inversions feel like? How on earth did they cram so much ride into such a small space?

Considering just the layout, it's visually one of the most compelling rides out there - having two trains weave in and out of this massive structure, in a way that's difficult to follow, yet they both somewhat mirror each other - genius. Much like Ripsaw, it's a great ride for spectators, and it almost certainly inspired what Phantasialand would do with Taron a few years later. It took me a good few years to build up the courage to actually ride the coasters, but I'd always get a kick out of the sheer scale of The Smiler.

When I did eventually ride it, I will admit that I did feel a little let down at first. The constant inverting, with nothing between to add some variation - it felt pretty predictable, and a little too nauseating, with a little rattle that at first, wasn't too bad - but this eventually developed into something that would be intolerable. A little jankiness here and there can add a lot of character - heck, this is why wooden coasters are popular - but there's a difference between out-of-control craziness and flat out pain, which is something The Smiler has often darted between. In recent years, it's definitely taken to the latter - well, even in the early days, I remember people talking about the third train in hushed tones due to it riding much, much worse than the others. And that's an issue itself - if you have to hope that you're not getting the uncomfortable train, then there's a fundamental flaw in the ride, and it becomes a lottery of hurt.

Progressing through the years, it seems that most of the trains ride like the infamous third one now. The whole thing feels like a shopping trolley with square wheels that's falling apart and being moved around too aggresively on a cobbled street. Again - rides don't have to be perfectly smooth - but I don't want to come off one with a headache and to feel a bit ill. Then there's the odd bumpy transition - the bottom of the first drop, the cobra roll - that judder the body in such an uncomfortable way that - even if you've been blessed with a relatively smooth ride up until this point - there'll always be these jolts to bring it back down a little.

If we're speaking about the wider experience as well - it has all the charm of a run-down council car park. It's dumped in a big concrete box that's soggy and rotting, and the queue is just a claustrophobic, chaotic cluster that really isn't fit for purpose. One of my least favourite memories of the park as a whole is being stuck in this slow moving queue one night - being shuffled around with no sense of progression, with highly irritating music for an hour - it really isn't great.

All of this is made the more confusing, when on the other side of the park is something as exceptional as Nemesis, which predates The Smiler by almost two decades, and does everything to such a high quality that just isn't seen in X-Sector.

Before you can even see Nemesis, there's a sense of drama in the air - slowly descending towards this huge arch with the distant rumbling of the ride, and then the path opening up to the chasm of natural rock, track and this grotesque creature - already the experience exceeds the aformentioned Gerstlauer.

Nemesis may be short, but the pacing is relentless - each being ridiculously intense, with the inversions spread out enough so you don't feel too sickly. And the way it's paced, man is it creative - starting with the corkscrew and building up to the crazy zero-g roll before the loop, and just when you think it's mellowing, another corkscrew to see you home. And because it is short, it makes it easier to lap - although I've never really been able to do more than five or six in a row before the effects of one Smiler ride set in. It did get a bit rough towards the end of it's life, but I never found it to be that bad - and to be fair, when a ride has been running for almost three decades, it's to be expected.

The setting of the ride as well - such a unique setup. Which other park would blast a canyon to house an inverted coaster? Which other park would theme a ride to an boney alien which may or may not be dead? It's entirely Alton. And whilst Smiler's theme is certainly unique, any park can put a coaster in a concrete pit. Only Alton Towers would do something as bizarre and terraform to this level for Nemesis.

Nemesis is a ride I can daydream about, and be grateful that we have something so special in this country. The Smiler - I can't wait to see it go.

 

[Connor98]

I am sure Nemesis did take your photo on the first corkscrew, first time I rode it was around 2092. It was an absolute beast back then.

You never told us about your Time Machine !

 

[DistortAMG]

You never told us about your Time Machine !

2002! Fixed it. Haha.

 

[Ethan]

For me, the short answer - Nemesis any day of the week.

The long answer...

If we're taking things such as nostalgia into account, then theoretically, Smiler should easily win this battle. I first visited in the back end of 2012 and wondered what would end up in that pit, and used the build as a way into theme parks - so I owe a lot to it really. It was mysterious, tempting - what on earth could they do next? What will 14 inversions feel like? How on earth did they cram so much ride into such a small space?

Considering just the layout, it's visually one of the most compelling rides out there - having two trains weave in and out of this massive structure, in a way that's difficult to follow, yet they both somewhat mirror each other - genius. Much like Ripsaw, it's a great ride for spectators, and it almost certainly inspired what Phantasialand would do with Taron a few years later. It took me a good few years to build up the courage to actually ride the coasters, but I'd always get a kick out of the sheer scale of The Smiler.

When I did eventually ride it, I will admit that I did feel a little let down at first. The constant inverting, with nothing between to add some variation - it felt pretty predictable, and a little too nauseating, with a little rattle that at first, wasn't too bad - but this eventually developed into something that would be intolerable. A little jankiness here and there can add a lot of character - heck, this is why wooden coasters are popular - but there's a difference between out-of-control craziness and flat out pain, which is something The Smiler has often darted between. In recent years, it's definitely taken to the latter - well, even in the early days, I remember people talking about the third train in hushed tones due to it riding much, much worse than the others. And that's an issue itself - if you have to hope that you're not getting the uncomfortable train, then there's a fundamental flaw in the ride, and it becomes a lottery of hurt.

Progressing through the years, it seems that most of the trains ride like the infamous third one now. The whole thing feels like a shopping trolley with square wheels that's falling apart and being moved around too aggresively on a cobbled street. Again - rides don't have to be perfectly smooth - but I don't want to come off one with a headache and to feel a bit ill. Then there's the odd bumpy transition - the bottom of the first drop, the cobra roll - that judder the body in such an uncomfortable way that - even if you've been blessed with a relatively smooth ride up until this point - there'll always be these jolts to bring it back down a little.

If we're speaking about the wider experience as well - it has all the charm of a run-down council car park. It's dumped in a big concrete box that's soggy and rotting, and the queue is just a claustrophobic, chaotic cluster that really isn't fit for purpose. One of my least favourite memories of the park as a whole is being stuck in this slow moving queue one night - being shuffled around with no sense of progression, with highly irritating music for an hour - it really isn't great.

All of this is made the more confusing, when on the other side of the park is something as exceptional as Nemesis, which predates The Smiler by almost two decades, and does everything to such a high quality that just isn't seen in X-Sector.

Before you can even see Nemesis, there's a sense of drama in the air - slowly descending towards this huge arch with the distant rumbling of the ride, and then the path opening up to the chasm of natural rock, track and this grotesque creature - already the experience exceeds the aformentioned Gerstlauer.

Nemesis may be short, but the pacing is relentless - each being ridiculously intense, with the inversions spread out enough so you don't feel too sickly. And the way it's paced, man is it creative - starting with the corkscrew and building up to the crazy zero-g roll before the loop, and just when you think it's mellowing, another corkscrew to see you home. And because it is short, it makes it easier to lap - although I've never really been able to do more than five or six in a row before the effects of one Smiler ride set in. It did get a bit rough towards the end of it's life, but I never found it to be that bad - and to be fair, when a ride has been running for almost three decades, it's to be expected.

The setting of the ride as well - such a unique setup. Which other park would blast a canyon to house an inverted coaster? Which other park would theme a ride to an boney alien which may or may not be dead? It's entirely Alton. And whilst Smiler's theme is certainly unique, any park can put a coaster in a concrete pit. Only Alton Towers would do something as bizarre and terraform to this level for Nemesis.

Nemesis is a ride I can daydream about, and be grateful that we have something so special in this country. The Smiler - I can't wait to see it go.

This is a great post and tbf I agree with most things you’ve said. I do think the experience as a whole is better for Nemesis, but the absolute chaos and marvel of twisting metal in every direction is what I love so much about the smiler. It’s an absolute engineering masterpiece that you can barely take your eyes off when it’s duelling

 

[Danscott22]

I prefer The Smiler but it depends how Nemesis Reborn rides (no I've never found The Smiler rough). I'm genuinely surprised this thread hasn't been a complete car crash though based on previous experience

 

[Connor98]

This is a great post and tbf I agree with most things you’ve said. I do think the experience as a whole is better for Nemesis, but the absolute chaos and marvel of twisting metal in every direction is what I love so much about the smiler. It’s an absolute engineering masterpiece that you can barely take your eyes off when it’s duelling

It’s very very impressive to look at. I wish there was a plaza/bar area where you could sit and watch the ride operate. But when it comes to engineering it has its flaws, the fact it’s trying to pull itself out the ground shows that. But it is amazing how they managed to fit that amount of track into such a tight area. Am I right in saying it holds the record for most amount of coaster track per square metre

 

[AT86]

Unless I'm completely misremembering it, didn't Nemesis used to have the on-ride photo taken on the first Corkscrew? Those four reflective strips on the box section seem to confirm my memory. Does anybody remember when it moved to the current location after the helix?

Yes the photo was originally at the first corkscrew, it moved around 2004/5 to after the helix. Not sure why they moved it.

 

[rob666]

It’s very very impressive to look at. I wish there was a plaza/bar area where you could sit and watch the ride operate. But when it comes to engineering it has its flaws, the fact it’s trying to pull itself out the ground shows that. But it is amazing how they managed to fit that amount of track into such a tight area. Am I right in saying it holds the record for most amount of coaster track per square metre

There was to be a plaza, for non rider viewing, within the actual ride footprint, in the original plans...in front of the station area.
I think it was dropped because of clearance issues.

 

[Katy]

Don't forget the "viewing window" in the shop floor over the indoor inversion section, which you can't really see anything through

 

[Ethan]

I'm genuinely surprised this thread hasn't been a complete car crash though based on previous experience

It has been. But that was to be expected

 

[AT86]

I'm genuinely surprised this thread hasn't been a complete car crash though based on previous experience

 

[Matt N]

I’m sorry to resurrect this contentious thread, but I was pondering the topic after my visit to Alton Towers yesterday.

I can’t remember whether I posted in the thread before. My opinion on the matter has been the same for years; in the comparison of Nemesis vs Smiler, I’d certainly vote Nemesis, and there’s absolutely no competition between them for me. However, I’ve struggled to quantify too many reasons for quite why Smiler doesn’t rub me over the right way; for years, my answer to the question of “Why do you prefer Nemesis to Smiler?” wouldn’t have extended much beyond “I just do”.

After my visit yesterday, I think I’m able to quantify more accurately why I’d vote Nemesis so decisively and why I’m not a massive fan of Smiler.

I really, really want to like The Smiler. On paper, I really like the layout and think it’s very creative.

However, the execution just doesn’t live up to the concept for me. I was in the back row yesterday, and it was the weakest ride I’ve had on The Smiler in a good while. It was pretty rough, with the cobra roll and final inversions really hurting and there being a couple of other bad jolts during the layout and a general harsh rattle. I also found the OTSR very uncomfortable; by the end of the ride, it was really digging into my thighs, so when combined with the roughness, I stepped off with my thighs, shoulders, and neck all feeling a bit worse for wear.

But even notwithstanding the roughness and uncomfortable restraints, I don’t think the layout rides as well as you’d expect on paper. In the ride of 14 inversions, I’d honestly say that my favourite element is probably the second airtime hill, and I’d struggle to think of any overly memorable or impactful sequences of inversions. It’s admittedly intense, but I don’t find it a particularly rerideable or enjoyable kind of intense. It just makes me feel a bit disorientated and nauseated, with not much payoff. I’d liken it to an intense spinning flat ride with lots of repetitive-feeling motions, which I’m also generally not a huge fan of.

With all these factors considered, I think Smiler is an odd coaster in that it’s less than the sum of its parts for me. On paper, it has a lot going for it, but I’m just not a huge fan.

With Nemesis, on the other hand; I just love it! The ride is intense, but I find it to be such an enjoyable and rerideable form of intense; it delivers its intensity in an exciting and memorable way that is highly exhilarating, yet not vaguely nauseating! It’s thrilling and forceful, but also smooth and rerideable, and I just find some of those element sequences so impactful! In particular, I absolutely love that sequence from the first drop through to the zero-g roll; I can never fathom where it gets so much speed from, and the speed just keeps building and building! I don’t think any sequence of inversions on Smiler quite matches the sheer awesomeness of that initial sequence on Nemesis.

In terms of the overall enjoyability and rerideability of the ride, I just find that Nemesis provides this in droves for me! I rate things that are fun, thrilling and rerideable, and Nemesis is smooth and comfortable while still providing a huge kick of exhilaration, in my view! It is intense and forceful, but I don’t find it nauseating or disorientating, and I think it’s a very fun and rerideable coaster! It’s not quite a top 10 coaster for me, and it is a 9 rather than a 10 in my overall rating system. It’s not even quite my favourite Alton Towers coaster (Wicker Man and Oblivion beat it for me). However, this is largely due to me tending to rate things focused on negative g’s higher these days; Nemesis is an absolutely excellent coaster nonetheless!

So in summary, as much as I want to like Smiler, the execution doesn’t live up to the concept for me and it just never quite rubs me over the right way. Whereas Nemesis is a smooth, thrilling and rerideable hit with such impactful elements that never fails to deliver for me!

 

[Ethan]

The problem with Smiler is consistency. I genuinely think it might be undefeated on the front row as it’s by far the best row on the ride. 2nd and 3rd row are ok but not as good as the front. The back… is diabolical. The back row is so bad that I question how it’s even possible that there is that big a difference from row 3 to 4. I’ve got to the point with the back where I won’t bother getting on anymore if they put me in that row. I’ve had my best ever towers rides on front row at night but I’ve also had my worst towers rides on the back row. It doesn’t even feel like the same coaster the difference is night and day

 

[Matt N]

The problem with Smiler is consistency. I genuinely think it might be undefeated on the front row as it’s by far the best row on the ride. 2nd and 3rd row are ok but not as good as the front. The back… is diabolical. The back row is so bad that I question how it’s even possible that there is that big a difference from row 3 to 4. I’ve got to the point with the back where I won’t bother getting on anymore if they put me in that row. I’ve had my best ever towers rides on front row at night but I’ve also had my worst towers rides on the back row. It doesn’t even feel like the same coaster the difference is night and day

I’ll fully agree that it’s pretty inconsistent. Last year, I had a fairly decent ride in the front; smooth, floaty, not too nauseating, and overall pretty great by Smiler standards! I had one the day after in row 2 or 3 that was less good, but still not too bad at all. But this year, I had a back row that was not good; quite rough, nauseating, uncomfortable restraints, and was just not that great.

However, I’d still argue that it’s not an absolute favourite of mine even when it runs well. My critique about the sensations of the layout and such often still stands even when the ride is running smoothly, and even when it runs smoothly, I’d argue that it definitely still has its moments in terms of roughness.

And to an extent, I’d argue that I rate a ride lower if it is so wildly inconsistent that it’s a complete lottery every time you get on. Sure, all rides vary between rows, seats, times of day and such to some degree, but with my favourite coasters, they provide a guaranteeably brilliant, consistent experience wherever you sit, whatever time of day you ride it and such.

In Alton Towers, I’d argue that my top 3 coasters in the park, Wicker Man, Oblivion and Nemesis (in that order), all fill that criteria; they have their better rows and such, but they always provide an excellent experience regardless of where you sit, what time of day you ride, what train you ride on and such. And from my experience, Smiler is just too inconsistent for me to say that about it.

 

[Ethan]

In Alton Towers, I’d argue that my top 3 coasters in the park, Wicker Man, Oblivion and Nemesis

In terms of smoothness I’d agree with Nemesis and Wicker man. I’ve found oblivion a bit inconsistent this year. Front row is always good but I’ve had a few back row rides where it’s pulling out the drop and it’s extremely juddery

 

[Matt N]

In terms of smoothness I’d agree with Nemesis and Wicker man. I’ve found oblivion a bit inconsistent this year. Front row is always good but I’ve had a few back row rides where it’s pulling out the drop and it’s extremely juddery

I was more talking about my top 3 coasters in the park overall rather than in terms of smoothness specifically there, but I guess you could also say the same about smoothness for me!

I haven't found Oblivion anything other than smooth, personally. I had 5 goes on Oblivion on Sunday, in both the front and the back and often on outer seats, and all of those rides were very smooth for me.

 

[Matt.GC]

I've never poured as much scorn on the Smiler as many others. It's popular with the public, it's quite iconic, and I usually enjoy it.

I also dislike the new Nemesis more than others do. The station is awesome, but almost everything else about it is inferior to the original for me. The name. The "theming". The awful state of the pit. The overuse of the colour black. Whilst not "rough" at all, the vibrations and rattling sounds of the second half that weren't there before are far more distracting than the slight ear bashing the original could deal out to you. Maybe it's because I learnt how to ride the original?

That said, I was allowed back in my favourite row 8 a number of times a few weeks ago, and the excellent layout of Nemesis felt as intense as the original, almost to the point where I'd say my favourite part of the ride is now better than it's ever been thanks to the new smoothness and lack of ear bashing (the corkscrew, downwards helix and pull up into the zero-g), even if the loop onwards is worse than before. And I had my worst ride ever on the Smiler on the same day. Row 4 and I came off in pain and feeling sick, and I don't get all precious and tearful over "roughness" like some others do. I wasn't bothered about going on it again for the rest of the trip, whereas Nemesis I was.

The country mile may have shrunk slightly, but I'd far sooner lap rattly warzone themed Nemesis all day rather than have another back row ride on the Smiler.

 

[Balddadgra]

Honestly nemesis is world class and always will be. Rode it multiple times. I LOVE it, maybe my favourite ride of all time. However if you take rose tinted glasses and nostalgia out of the equation, then I’d PROBABLY say the smiler… I say probably as i literally cant pick between the two…but IF i had to.

I can’t phrase this any other way, so I apologise in advance. a lot of people on here sound complete wimps when it comes to experiences on the Smiler and nemesis etc. (Sorry don’t mean to offend anyone)…yes there are MINISCULE rattles etc. and yesI have rode the certain seats and carriages in question…but the Smiler is NOT too rough or forceful. Same for Nemmie. Same for Nash, infusion at pleasurebeach etc. people are just wimpy. I’ve come off rides with bruises and mild whiplash but at the end of the day its fun and who cares. I LOVE the fact the smiler is the only ride i go on at towers that physically forces your limbs back to the ground etv. I always have my hands in the air for most rides and I love that you come off smiler aching. It shows how intense and forceful it is and the G’s it must pull.

So I’d say the Smiler. Just. Amazing ride. (And yes i LOVE the theming, the initial drop and black tunnel, the unsafe pitch-black shop coridoor etc.) it’s a work of art and doesn’t get the love it deserves. Nemmie is a top 10 coaster for most, i feel the Smiler should be too.