So how many of us use fastrack?

[BarryZola]

It's all about personal choice really isn't it?

Let's be honest, if you're living in abject poverty you're not likely to be at Alton Towers in the first place. Considering this, we can assume that most people at Towers have some level of disposable income.

Let's consider a possible scenario:

Person 'A' is really into following the latest fashion trends, enjoys looking good and turns up at Alton Towers in his designer outfit which has set him back a couple of hundred quid. Unfortunately this person has to use the regular queue and wait 2 hours for The Smiler as he's already spent his disposable income.

On the other side of the fence on the same day is Person 'B'. This person doesn't care about fashion or the latest trends at all and quite frankly looks like a bag of poo. However, this person is REALLY into theme parks and coasters, and as he hasn't spent money on clothes he has a good level of disposable income to play with (probably doesn't spend £50 a month on the latest phone either). Therefore, person 'B' decides that he'll spend some of his hard-earned spare dosh on a couple of fast-tracks to get more rides in on the day. I'd suggest that person 'B' shouldn't be feeling too guilty about passing person 'A' in the queue just because he has CHOSEN (as they both have the right to buy) to spend his disposable income on fast-track.

That's just one example and there are plenty of faults to be picked with that, but I just thought I'd put it out there anyway. Personally, like many others, I've never purchased a fast-track but have been given 2 in the past and made use of them (one for a ride breakdown when I was at the front of the queue and one was just given to me as someone had a spare and was going home). I don't really feel the need to buy one as I get enough rides in over the year anyway so if rides are busy I'll just find something else to do on that day. Best way to avoid queues is to not go on obviously busy days (you're asking to be stuck in queue's all day if you do that) or use single rider.

 

[smudge]

^ 100% agreed on that one mr alton towers memories, that is exactly how I think about the situation.

I never take notice of people talking about how it separates guests, everyone is there, which is an extravagance in itself. (Although still respect their opinion of course)

 

[Meat Pie]

we can assume that most people at Towers have some level of disposable income.

You can assume that about people who visit multiple times a year maybe, but for average visitor who saves up to take the family, no you can't assume that at all.

Your whole argument is flawed as it assumes a world where everyone has the same level of income and ability to pay as yourself and some people just choose to spend it on something else. That is an unrealistic world view only assumed as to sustain what would be an otherwise unfair and selfish position to take.

 

[BarryZola]

we can assume that most people at Towers have some level of disposable income.

You can assume that about people who visit multiple times a year maybe, but for average visitor who saves up to take the family, no you can't assume that at all.

But does the 'average visitor' save up especially to go to Alton Towers these days? Or is this just another day trip in addition to a foreign holiday that most people feel entitled to every year?

As I said in my comments above, there are holes to be picked in what I posted, but I stick to the basic sentiment.

 

[Meat Pie]

The average family surviving on an average household income does indeed have to save up because the general decrease of wages, combined with the cost of living, and the average debt per household, makes it necessary.

Most people feel entitled to a foreign holiday? Maybe the people you know but I know very very few average income families who have had a foreign holiday in the last 5 years let alone every year.

 

[BarryZola]

Yes Meat Pie.

Unfortunately, many of the middle (or low) income families that I've lived amongst all of my life and associate with in everyday life find it a struggle at times to manage their finances sensibly. The example of the spending on the annual holiday can also be seen in the way that people spend way beyond their means on the Xmas experience. Many people will spend too much on these things even if it means getting in to debt which has to be paid for over the next 12 months or more as they feel the need to keep up the annual traditions (inevitably you hear about the struggle for money months later after Timmy has just had a new games console worth £400 and his sister has had the new Iphone).

People will go to these lengths and then feel hard done to when people who have been more sensible with their money have the option to purchase a couple of perks at a theme park for a few quid.

 

[smudge]

The average family surviving on an average household income does indeed have to save up because the general decrease of wages, combined with the cost of living, and the average debt per household, makes it necessary.

I seriously doubt an 'average' amount of families on an average income even know how to save. Especially when almost everything is available with a finance package these days.

Of course there are flaws in this comment, ( and don't want to offend, ) although on the whole, people on lower income generally have lower intelligence levels, less drive & less qualities required to bring in a 'higher' income. This in turn changes the way they live their life, instead of eating nice food or driving a nice car, or living in a big house, they choose to go to the pub every night, for example. My point is this 'low income' family choose not to be able to go to AT, they choose to buy a new games console ( good example Barry ) or choose to smoke etc etc.

NMW is in place so all families can afford to do things such as theme parks. Although if they choose to use the disposable income on something else then that's up to them.

 

[delta79]

I love the way the question "who uses fastrack" is so intrinsically linked to Socioeconomics.

 

[Sam]

It doesn't matter about the socioeconomics of it.

The principle of it is wrong. It's a paid extra where the more it is used, the worse other guest's experience is, in a very real and concrete way (it is obviously undeniable that every Fastrack used makes the main queue longer by one person).

Like Net Neutrality, which was won on principled grounds, this is similar. It is saying no, we do not want a two-tiered system in theme parks, where some guests can pay to make other's guests days worse.

This simply goes too far in trampling on the British principles of fair play, especially in regards to queueing.

 

[IanB]

And I guess that's where we agree to disagree Sam. There is nothing wrong with fast-pass if it is implemented correctly, and revenue used from it is used to benefit all guests. If the revenue is invested back in to the park, everyone benefits from it. Would you rather have a £10 million pound investment, or have to queue a little longer and get a bigger and better themed ride.

The internet comparison is an interesting one, is it fair that people who can afford to spend more on their broadband can have a higher download speed? Should everyone be limited to 2mb broadband, or should people be allowed to pay a higher price for 100mb broadband so help subsidy everyone so that there can be an affordable 10MB broadband.

Again, just it case anyone thinks I am saying how Merlin operates its fast-pass is acceptable, I am not, and I think if Merlin continue to use fast-pass to just generate pure profit for the business it should be removed.

Ian

 

[TheMan]

Just to invoke the spirit further of the annual closed season fast track class debate may I ask this?

How many against Fast Track on principle, use ethically sourced products from other Countries such as Fair Trade coffee etc?

I just feel there are more important steps we can take to equality than worrying about a few fast track tickets.

MEAT PIE, you don't need to answer that lol! I know you walk your talk.

And well done to ILC for somehow knowing how to pick a topic to get the forum going lol! ;D

Just to clarify, I am not implying anything with the question, genuinely interested in the responses.

 

[Plastic Person]

How many against Fast Track on principle, use ethically sourced products from other Countries such as Fair Trade coffee etc?

I just feel there are more important steps we can take to equality than worrying about a few fast track tickets.

Well, I do try and use ethically sourced products, incidentally, but I think this is something of a straw-man argument really. Everything is relative, and I think there's a big difference between developing communities being exploited by what are essentially imperialist corporations for cheap coffee and having to wait an extra ten minutes or so to get on Sonic Spinball. Although admittedly it doesn't feel like it when you're in the queue.

 

[TheMan]

Everything is relative, and I think there's a big difference between developing communities being exploited by what are essentially imperialist corporations for cheap coffee and having to wait an extra ten minutes or so to get on Sonic Spinball.

Precisely. That's the point I am making, getting a little perspective into the debate as it were seeing as it became a class/ethical based argument.

This:

Although admittedly it doesn't feel like it when you're in the queue.

Made me LOL ;D

 

[Sam]

There is nothing wrong with fast-pass if it is implemented correctly, and revenue used from it is used to benefit all guests. If the revenue is invested back in to the park, everyone benefits from it. Would you rather have a £10 million pound investment, or have to queue a little longer and get a bigger and better themed ride.

It is clearly not used to benefit all guests, or invested back into the park. Paid Fastrack was introduced around the early 2000s right? Just about the time where you can see a marked shift in terms of the scale, quantity and quality of investments.

Oblivion, Hex, the rapids, HH and RMT in one year and Nemesis were all built pre paid-fastrack. Would Towers ever build two such huge rides in one year these days? Would they blast a pit with dynamite, or build a 90ft deep tunnel? No. The investment in the park, relative to what's generally expected of theme parks these days, has dropped since paid fastrack was introduced.

 

[PeteA]

For me this question is a loaded one.

Do I buy fastrack at Alton? No
Do I buy fastrack at any UK park? No
Do I buy fastrack at a European or US park? Sometimes yes, most times no.

You see, for me its not about a class system, or just for the elite and or wealthy. Its about making the most of my time. When at a poorly run park, or a park that has had their fair share of capacity problems (I am looking at you Merlin here), I can see why people buy fastracks. However, because I have been to the UK parks so many times, I feel no reason to buy a fastrack. However, compare that to a family who will only visit the park once in a blue moon, is it really value for money to pay your entrance price and then stand in a Smiler queue for 3 hours?

Of course, Merlin dont help themselves by having the bogofs everywhere, so people think, well I have saved £24 on entry, lets buy some fastracks.

The thing I do find most amusing is people who have bought fastrack then find that the ride is a walk on. In one case in Blackpool as a non-fastracker I got on quicker than 2 people who had a Speedy Pass. Dont get me wrong this has happened to me at a few parks. I had ordered a pass for Magic Mountain weeks prior to my visit and found half the coasters with no queues. However for the rides that did have queues, it was the best money I have spent. For me, I will asses a park overseas first to gauge numbers and then decide to get a pass or not.

Overseas is a different question. When I am at a park that I will probably not get back to for a long time, I will do anything to make my day better. If thats buying a fastrack then so be it.

Where the Merlin parks go wrong is offering free fastrack for ANYTHING... They dont fix the problems, just give fastrack out like though they are sweets.

Oh and any park that has staff stood outside entrances to rides, over inflating ride times and selling fastrack should be ashamed. Also parks running rides on low capacity to increase queuetimes as well..

 

[Rob]

The principle of it is wrong. It's a paid extra where the more it is used, the worse other guest's experience is, in a very real and concrete way (it is obviously undeniable that every Fastrack used makes the main queue longer by one person).

Theoretically yes you are right. However the longer wait is only really noticeable when fastrack is oversold and not managed correctly. This is what happens quite a lot at Merlin parks. I have been to other parks where there is paid fastrack and it has not impacted upon the main queue noticeably as it is managed effectively. I once again go back to the example of BGW. Having used both their fastrack and main queues I saw no noticeable impact on the main queue from fastrack.

Manage it properly, ensure it is a premium product, monitor the use. Doing these things should mean that the system runs smoothly. I do not have a problem with people wanting to pay to skip a queue. When I went to the USA I bought fastrack at the parks I could as I wanted to make the most of my time at these new parks and get on the coasters multiple times. This was a huge benefit. It's the same if someone comes over from say the USA to Alton Towers for a first time trip; they may not be planning to return for a good number of years so may want to buy fastrack for their visit as to make the most of it.

Oblivion, Hex, the rapids, HH and RMT in one year and Nemesis were all built pre paid-fastrack. Would Towers ever build two such huge rides in one year these days? Would they blast a pit with dynamite, or build a 90ft deep tunnel? No. The investment in the park, relative to what's generally expected of theme parks these days, has dropped since paid fastrack was introduced.

Once again I have to disagree. Investment at Towers is very good. There is a new attraction every year (2011 was an anomaly), you cannot say the same thing for a lot of parks worldwide. BGW is my favourite theme park and it has a good reputation; they had no new ride this year and are getting no new ride next year. We have had two major coasters at Towers since 2010, I bet not many parks around the world can say that. Just because they didn't blast a hole in the ground with dynamite or dig a huge tunnel in the ground does not mean that the investments are not significant. They did the work that was required for each ride, and in both cases a substantial amount of digging took place, more than many other developments.

 

[Meat Pie]

I seriously doubt an 'average' amount of families on an average income even know how to save. Especially when almost everything is available with a finance package these days.

Of course there are flaws in this comment, ( and don't want to offend, ) although on the whole, people on lower income generally have lower intelligence levels, less drive & less qualities required to bring in a 'higher' income. This in turn changes the way they live their life, instead of eating nice food or driving a nice car, or living in a big house, they choose to go to the pub every night, for example. My point is this 'low income' family choose not to be able to go to AT, they choose to buy a new games console ( good example Barry ) or choose to smoke etc etc.

NMW is in place so all families can afford to do things such as theme parks. Although if they choose to use the disposable income on something else then that's up to them.

Poor people are stupid and it's their own fault they are poor? I can only deduce from this position that you are proponent of feudalism sent from the middle ages to show us the error of our modern socially conscious ideas and egalitarian ambitions.

I mean how could the distribution of wealth have anything to do with the fact that people are born into vastly different economic positions, and that those who have all the wealth use their power and influence to keep the masses suppressed in a life of low-income wage slavery, so that they can continue to increase their 'profit' and squeeze every last greedy penny..?

:

 

[Benzin]

How I read Meat Pie's post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxGqcCeV3qk#ws

 

[smudge]

I seriously doubt an 'average' amount of families on an average income even know how to save. Especially when almost everything is available with a finance package these days.

Of course there are flaws in this comment, ( and don't want to offend, ) although on the whole, people on lower income generally have lower intelligence levels, less drive & less qualities required to bring in a 'higher' income. This in turn changes the way they live their life, instead of eating nice food or driving a nice car, or living in a big house, they choose to go to the pub every night, for example. My point is this 'low income' family choose not to be able to go to AT, they choose to buy a new games console ( good example Barry ) or choose to smoke etc etc.

NMW is in place so all families can afford to do things such as theme parks. Although if they choose to use the disposable income on something else then that's up to them.

Poor people are stupid and it's their own fault they are poor? I can only deduce from this position that you are proponent of feudalism sent from the middle ages to show us the error of our modern socially conscious ideas and egalitarian ambitions.

I mean how could the distribution of wealth have anything to do with the fact that people are born into vastly different economic positions, and that those who have all the wealth use their power and influence to keep the masses suppressed in a life of low-income wage slavery, so that they can continue to increase their 'profit' and squeeze every last greedy penny..?

:

Oh come on! National Minimum Wage does certainly not constitute 'slavery.' Not to mention the low-income benefits UK citizens receive. I was talking UK here, not third world civilization. If you are born (or legally live) in the UK you have the same opportunities as anyone else, with few exceptions.

 

[Natalie]

I seriously doubt an 'average' amount of families on an average income even know how to save. Especially when almost everything is available with a finance package these days.

Of course there are flaws in this comment, ( and don't want to offend, ) although on the whole, people on lower income generally have lower intelligence levels, less drive & less qualities required to bring in a 'higher' income. This in turn changes the way they live their life, instead of eating nice food or driving a nice car, or living in a big house, they choose to go to the pub every night, for example. My point is this 'low income' family choose not to be able to go to AT, they choose to buy a new games console ( good example Barry ) or choose to smoke etc etc.

NMW is in place so all families can afford to do things such as theme parks. Although if they choose to use the disposable income on something else then that's up to them.

Poor people are stupid and it's their own fault they are poor? I can only deduce from this position that you are proponent of feudalism sent from the middle ages to show us the error of our modern socially conscious ideas and egalitarian ambitions.

I mean how could the distribution of wealth have anything to do with the fact that people are born into vastly different economic positions, and that those who have all the wealth use their power and influence to keep the masses suppressed in a life of low-income wage slavery, so that they can continue to increase their 'profit' and squeeze every last greedy penny..?

:

Oh come on! National Minimum Wage does certainly not constitute 'slavery.' Not to mention the low-income benefits UK citizens receive. I was talking UK here, not third world civilization. If you are born (or legally live) in the UK you have the same opportunities as anyone else, with few exceptions.

I am on minimum wage salaried and receive no benefits or tax breaks, money is tight atm but doing business and training to be an accountant has taught me how to budget with treats with some of my spare cash whilst still being able to afford to pay my finance on my car, my phone bill, my rent and also paying for my own college course. I am willing to take on a second job in the evening to have extra money once I've finished my report for college. I am 23 so I get paid full minimum wage. Sure it would be nice to get help from the government but I don't fit the criteria. I don't buy fastracks because I budget for a annual pass every year which means I don't feel the need for them, I went 43 times last year with my car which means I got my money's worth just by parking alone not to mention the discounts on food and the entry price.