Social Media

[pluk]

Like I say, I'm not averse to having a slanging match with someone in the street who chucks litter in my garden (before they stab me, probably) ...

If it's good enough for adults ... It's no wonder playground bullying has now gone online where it's anonymous and doubly damaging.

To many the in person slanging match is a much more aggressive, and therefore unacceptable, way of dealing with that situation. Neither approach to challenge it is necessarily wrong, littering is though.

I struggle to see how this is is in any way equitable to bullying, which by definition is an act with intent to harm or intimidate. Posts like this are surely just holding someone to account for their actions?

I'm not trying to say there aren't massive issues with people's use of social media; downright lies and untruths without supporting evidence shared by unthinking masses, not allowing people to apologise and make amends, downright criminal harassment. It all goes on. But this example feeds into a general bugbear of mine of people not being willing to be held to account for the consequences of their actions. That the problem is with the person catching them, not them for doing it. If you are going to throw litter on the floor you damn well better be able to deal with the consequence of that, which absolutely should be people pointing at you and saying don't do that, be that in person or online.

Actions having consequences shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Rick]

I agree with a lot of what you say @pluk, to a point. However ...

To many the in person slanging match is a much more aggressive, and therefore unacceptable, way of dealing with that situation. Neither approach to challenge it is necessarily wrong, littering is though.

Right ... but in the case of two average Joes having a disagreement about something needs to go beyond those two people. In that case the disagreement between the two of them is the start and end of it, if they go down the online route, the 'victim' forms a coalition with other social media users who without doubt hound said individual, start the death threats etc. No one kicks that process off in the hope that it'll all blow over and people won't respond.

I struggle to see how this is is in any way equitable to bullying, which by definition is an act with intent to harm or intimidate. Posts like this are surely just holding someone to account for their actions?

Holding them to account at what cost, though? I am sure the person who reported the girl on the previous page didn't expect her to die - but what did they expect and how did they know it wouldn't have a tragic consequence, with them knowing nothing about her circumstances. The fine for dropping litter is £150 (which she was happy to pay), but she paid the ultimate price - I struggle to compute that.

If there is an issue or disagreement between two people and within a few hours it's 1000 people vs. 1, that is a form of bullying - especially since 999 of them are only there to kick them whilst they're down?

I'm not trying to say there aren't massive issues with people's use of social media; downright lies and untruths without supporting evidence shared by unthinking masses, not allowing people to apologise and make amends, downright criminal harassment. It all goes on. But this example feeds into a general bugbear of mine of people not being willing to be held to account for the consequences of their actions. That the problem is with the person catching them, not them for doing it. If you are going to throw litter on the floor you damn well better be able to deal with the consequence of that, which absolutely should be people pointing at you and saying don't do that, be that in person or online.

Again ... I don't disagree, but when it ends in a suicide, I just think there is a better way to solve it.

Actions having consequences shouldn't be a surprise.

Again, completely agree but I challenge that the consequences of this approach are not proportional to the action in a lot of cases.

Would be interested to hear your views on some of the cases raised in the podcast I posted above and if it changes your mind at all.

 

[pluk]

I agree with a lot of what you say @pluk, to a point. However ...

Right ... but in the case of two average Joes having a disagreement about something needs to go beyond those two people. In that case the disagreement between the two of them is the start and end of it, if they go down the online route, the 'victim' forms a coalition with other social media users who without doubt hound said individual, start the death threats etc. No one kicks that process off in the hope that it'll all blow over and people won't respond.

While it might be one person littering and one person seeing them litter in person, that's not really the point of the issue. Society has to put up with and deal with the litter, the wider public will have an opinion on it and have every right to be angry at the litterer. It is not an issue between two people.

Yes, it gets silly when people are commenting on a small local issue from around the world, but the opinion of those people is not wrong and they are probablysick of the same issue near them. We can't know, but I would think this person was less interested in what strangers on the other side of the world thought and was more concerned about her neighbours, friends and family.

I am sure the person who reported the girl on the previous page didn't expect her to die - but what did they expect and how did they know it wouldn't have a tragic consequence, with them knowing nothing about her circumstances. The fine for dropping litter is £150 (which she was happy to pay), but she paid the ultimate price - I struggle to compute that.
...
Again ... I don't disagree, but when it ends in a suicide, I just think there is a better way to solve it.

...
Again, completely agree but I challenge that the consequences of this approach are not proportional to the action in a lot of cases.

This wasn't a child, this was someone who had a couple of decades to work out right and wrong but CHOSE to behave in such a way. I'd guess the intent of the poster was to have them see the error of their way and behave differently in future, because their current decision making process clearly didn't factor in general decency to others and their neighbourhood.

I completely understand the horrific disconnect between the 'crime' and the outcome, but that there is such disconnect highlights how the poster could not have foreseen the actions of the deceased. Their response is totally irrational. Like all suicide, a permanent solution to a temporary problem, in this case a problem of their own making. The action they are ashamed of is their own action they chose to make.

To push any responsibility on to the person who has done no more than record and share the deceaseds own actions is the really dangerous game to be playing.

Where social media is truly dangerous is when posts are lies and gross exaggerations, where accusations are not backed up by documentary evidence. This (if is as reported) is not that. Holding people to account for their own actions has to be a good thing.

The consequences of such a post is purely the spread of information and knowledge about the person's own behaviour. The secondary consequences are purely up to the subject. If you literally cannot live with others knowing the the things you do that effect them, you should provably be making changes before you get caught.


It'll be no surprise my experiences at work heavily informs my opinion here, which is obviously a completely different thing but also has distinct similarities. I'm told literally multiple times daily that it's my fault that I'm sending someone to court/prison for having the audacity to catch them doing wrong, rather than them recognising they've done wrong themselves. If they hadn't they couldn't have been caught. They often tell me they'll be killing themselves and I'll have to live with it because I've ruined their life, when the truth is they've ruined it for themselves, and the even greater truth is their life is not ruined at all and whatever is going on is likely a relatively minor blip. In this position I have a clear conscience, as should anyone sharing documentary evidence of any truth.

 

[Hew878787]

I have a love hate relationship with social media, I’m just glad it wasn’t a thing growing up.

You can’t even go to clubs anymore without a crowd of people stood there filming the DJ in their iPhones.

Can’t dance like a rhythmless knob anymore without the possibility of someone recording you like a creep. We need to be more like some venues in Germany and ban the use of phones. Lost your mate? Meet at the bottom of the grotty spiral stair case like the old days.

 

[Sauron97]

Just saw these two tweets, and thought they explain perfectly about how the world works nowadays.


Both spot on, and apparently they relate to something psychologists are calling 'concept creep'. I know everything has a label nowadays, but there is some truth to it i think, personally.

I think the underlying problem here is social media. Even 10 years ago comedy was more carefree, but once Social media usage really kicked in and groups started enforcing moral agendas, all of that went out the window. And these moral agendas can be pretty subjective too, which is where the culture wars and 'picking sides' come in, imo.

Blackface is obviously racist and it isn't even pretending not to be (and i agree that it's always been like that, there were just less consuquences of people doing blackface in the past), but when people on social media start saying wearing bronze makeup on magazine covers that gives you a tanned skin look is the equivilant of blackface, even when the crude intention isn't there, and nobody is intended to be harmed, you start getting silly pointless (and subjective) arguments on both sides. Some people will start bringing up some reference to "white chicks" , and other people will respond by saying that's a different situation because the oppression from decades ago or hundreds of years ago isn't behind it or something along those lines. And then the cycle of being offended and calling people out will continue. All over someone wearing bronze makeup, probably for no other reason than their own satisfaction.

In older days I guess we had religion to give us more objectively defined collective morals. Nowadays there are no such rules in place , and perhaps this "concept creep" will know no bounds, as social media finds something new to morally enforce and push upon us. Maybe wearing things that make you look poor will be 'classist', maybe singing certain songs will be considered appropriating another countries culture. There are truly no bounds. And I think we are only seeing the beginning of it. When the current younger generation get older I think it will be like now but on steroids.


Would be interesting to know others thoughts on this and if they agree or disagree with this.

 

[Rick]

Five years clean of all that shit. Delete them all and don't look back.

We'll look back and wonder what we were doing.

 

[Matt.GC]

I agree with @Rick. I've missed most of this stuff and only know it's a thing when I hear about it on the news.

I was an early adopter of Facebook back in the 2000's when it was in its infancy and it seemed, back then, as like a younger people's version of a free Friends Reunited.

I don't understand Twitter and never have (seriously, what is the point in it? I don't get it?). I watch YouTube from time to time but it's usually stuff I choose to watch (like music and theme park related stuff) and I don't take any opinions or views on it very seriously or subscribe to this wierd phenomenon of "Stars" on there. As for Facebook, I still have an active account which I use mainly for messenger to keep in contact with people who may not have my phone number (and of course to view the odd Towers Street post). I've no idea what this Instant Gram is all about and Tick Tock just seems to be a website of people posting short videos showing off bull crap stuff with the same "Oh no no no no no" music playing in the background as everyone else has (my partner and my daughter use it on case you're wondering how I know).

I think the effect of social media also seems to be infecting this forum. These last couple of years in particular, I've seen social media links posted (many of which I can't access) sparking debate about nonsense stuff regarding WD40 cans and the opinions of "people in the know" being presented as pure fact as opposed to speculation. Thankfully, as this is a forum and not a bullring like social media, many of us have been free to challenge these "facts". But challenging conversation based on nonsense has become harder and harder due to, what appears to be, some members genuine belief in what they've read from someone somewhere out there in the digisphere.

I've wound down my social media usage to the point where it's now almost non-existent. I feel much more free than I did in the 2000's and 2010's to make more informed decisions and opinions. As a "white" working class young man, I found things such as blackface scenes in Bo Selecta and Little Britain funny at the time I'm ashamed to say.. I suppose social media (and of course life experience through broadened horizons) has opened up my eyes to how offensive and hurtful this trash is to real people. But at the same time, social media in recent years seems to have not only given bullying a new vehicle, but has also lead to the rediculous cult like behaviour that followed (or follows) Donald Trump and Jeremy Corbyn. These echo chambers reinforced by algorithms where anyone who disagrees with you must be an enemy.

I'm happy that most of the controversy of the last 6 or so years has gone over my head and that I seem to be able to see some of this nonsense for what it is. I'll always remain politically biased to a certain extent (I'll never loose my convictions even if someone who largely agrees with me goes down a certain route I don't feel comfortable taking) and my mental debility will always see the world in a slightly different light to many people anyway (I'm Bipolar with BPD). But I'm sure as hell glad that very few of my opinions and judgements are based on what some unknown person I've never met has said; and then said opinions being reinforced by platform algorithms.

I know this sounds ironic since I'm posting this on the internet to try and influence others, but try freeing yourselves from social media as much as possible. It's quite liberating and you may find that your fear of missing out is misplaced eventually. I feel that the only stuff I've missed out on is the emotional torture and fear of things that either end up being not true or work out fine in the end; or having to look something up or wait for the news to come on the telly to find something out. It can be quite blissful not being a slave to the latest click bate BS that thrusts itself upon your phone screen.

 

[James]

When specifically looking at a show like Little Britain. There’s so much focus on blackface but people forget to consider the wider context of the show. Little Britain made jokes of people from all walks of life. People who live on council estates, gay people, overweight people, people from different ethnic groups… the show was meant to be outrageous and ridiculous, that’s what made it so funny. Anyway, that’s a debate for another thread.

I’ve found myself posting on social media less and less in recent years, I feel better for it and hope I can try cut it out entirely one day. The only thing that keeps me from doing that is keeping in touch with friends/family and work groups. I find out more about changes in work from Facebook than I do from my actual work emails.

 

[MaxPower]

I have an Instagram account to follow some musicians I like and that's it. Used to have Bebo and MySpace back in the day but never had Facebook, Twitter or TikTok.

I find it really quite sad that people have become so obsessed with social media that it's as if that world is more important than the real one and much of the stuff people are willing to put out there for everyone to see is just crazy. I certainly wouldn't want my wife putting bikini photos on a public Insta page or twerking on TikTok and I'm sure the world wouldn't want to see my hairy beer gut.

I only have a small circle of friends at this point so if we want to meet up for a pint or go to the football, we text eachother.

 

[rob666]

I get my hairy beer gut out quite regularly at theme parks, but I don't do any social media.
Double win, at least for me.

 

[Matt N]

I must admit, I wouldn’t say my social media usage is that high for someone of my age.

I have a Facebook account, but I don’t really post anything and typically only have a brief glance through it once a day. I send things like birthday messages to people I know via Facebook, and I do use Messenger as a way of contacting people privately. However, most of my public timeline, particularly in recent years, simply consists of things I’ve been tagged in by family members.

I technically have a Twitter account, but I only got that so that I could read things linked to on the forums without getting pestered to sign up to Twitter. I’ve never posted anything on Twitter, I never look on Twitter unless someone links to it on the forums or elsewhere, and I only followed a few pages because Twitter told me I had to find “preferences” when I first signed up.

I don’t have anything like Instagram, Snapchat, or TikTok. They all look a bit fancy for me, and they don’t personally appeal to me.

What it ultimately boils down to for me is that I simply do not feel a desire to share the detailed minutiae of my everyday life in an untargeted way with people I’m not that close to in many cases. Some people I know absolutely love social media and love sharing every little detail of their life, and that’s fine by me, but that doesn’t really appeal to me, personally.

I was actually quite precocious in getting a Facebook account, being signed up by my parents when I was 9, but I was only given a Facebook account in the first place so that I could play Facebook games (Candy Crush, Bejeweled et al) with my family. My account was quite heavily micromanaged by my parents until I went to secondary school, and I had to use an alias on there until that point so that only my family would know who the account belonged to.

I don’t regret getting a Facebook account, as it is a useful vehicle to allow me to keep in touch with a number of people whom I wouldn’t see otherwise. However, I am certainly glad that I’m not more involved in social media, in spite of most people my age having a significant social media presence and owning accounts on many different social networks.

People say that it’s young people who are glued to social media, but in my case, it often works the opposite way around; my 66 year old Nan often asks me why I haven’t responded to what she’s tagged me in on Facebook or why I haven’t liked the photo she posted on Facebook, and it’s mostly because I simply haven’t seen it! I do often feel a bit bad about that… I should probably make more of an effort to look more often.

My parents often ask why I haven’t joined any theme park Facebook or Twitter groups, but I must admit that theme park social media doesn’t look like my thing at all from what I’ve seen of it, and I am glad to be on the forums instead… I know that forums are arguably somewhat old fashioned now, but something about them appeals to me far more than social media groups.

 

[BigShadowtinytree]

It certainly isn’t just young people who are addicted to social media. Plenty of older people are very invested in it, Facebook in particular seems to appeal more to the middle age/older age bracket these days, whereas when I first joined as a teenager it was what all the kids were doing when MySpace fell out of favour. The youngsters these days see Facebook as something their parents and grandparents use, it’s not cool or trendy anymore. Messenger is just about acceptable.

I’ve toned down my social media usage a lot over the last few years. I deleted twitter and instagram a while back, don’t have a tictok or snapchat and not really interested in either. I do have Facebook but haven’t made any posts in a couple of years now, I mainly use it for keeping in the loop with family, reading various groups about topics that interest me and sometimes boredom scrolling, it’s littered with ads though these days. Feels like every other post on my feed is an advert. Boring.

I used to post on social media fairly regularly, pictures, status updates etc. I don’t know when exactly but at some point I started to realise that it’s all a bit pointless. What was I gaining from sharing my life on there? I no longer wanted people, some of whom I’d not seen or spoken to in years, to know such details about my life. Not that I shared every waking moment, but I just started to feel a bit uncomfortable with it all. I also realised that no one actually cares, I don’t mean that in a ‘woe is me’ way, but I was posting things on the assumption that people wanted to see them. Now I’m sure that might be true for my close family and maybe even friends, but I doubt Sonia who I went to school with 15 years ago really cares that I took my kid to the park and we had a lovely time, just like I don’t really care about her life, yet I was allowing her and others a view into my life anyway, giving away my privacy, opening myself up to criticism, sharing things that in a pre-social media world, only those who really knew me would know. I’m not sure I’m explaining very well as I’m currently full of a head cold and various cold medication, but I hope that makes sense in some way.

Of course forums are a form of social media, they are different to the more ‘mainstream’ ones though, mainly because they are anonymous (to a point) and discussion based rather than being some sort of popularity contest. The concept appeals to me more I think because it’s less about the individual and more about the topics being discussed, again hope that makes sense.

 

[Matt N]

Of course forums are a form of social media, they are different to the more ‘mainstream’ ones though, mainly because they are anonymous (to a point) and discussion based rather than being some sort of popularity contest. The concept appeals to me more I think because it’s less about the individual and more about the topics being discussed, again hope that makes sense.

You make perfect sense, and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with regard to why I prefer forums to social media. I’ve noticed that personal dramas can take precedent on social media over the topics themselves; even in topic-dedicated groups, I’ve noticed that quite a bit of personal politics can be present. I’ve heard of quarrels and rivalries in theme park social media circles that make some of the worst arguments seen on here look like relatively minor disagreements. Even when TowersStreet opened a Discord server, I remember there being issues encountered, and it was closed down pretty promptly because of this.

Whereas forums, by their very nature, are more focused on the topics being discussed, with a lower emphasis on personalities. That may not appeal to some, and I’m aware that they are arguably a slightly outdated format, but I personally like the greater onus on the topics themselves. I’m a bit sad to see the influence of forums being diluted because I think that they still have a place in society for people who want more in-depth, structured discussion on topics.

I also far prefer the organisation of forums. With everything being in its own neat little topic or sub-forum, it helps to keep discussion relatively orderly and cohesive, which I don’t think is necessarily the case on social media.

That’s not to say that social media is bad or doesn’t have advantages, though. I’m simply expressing why forums appeal to me personally more than social media does.

 

[Matt.GC]

Wait, Facebook is seen as an old people thing? Well I never.

Do people still put attention seeking dramatic posts on there in the hope that someone will comment "U OK hun?"

 

[Matt N]

Do people still put attention seeking dramatic posts on there in the hope that someone will comment "U OK hun?"

I wouldn’t call them attention seeking posts, as I think the person seems to be genuinely a bit down in the dumps from the examples I’ve seen, but yes, I do still see posts with lots of comments of that vein on them.

Some people simply like to use Facebook as a place to vent and a comforting shoulder to cry on. If they need that outlet to help them get through issues, I don’t see an issue with it or any ill intent behind it, personally.

To be honest, if I see a post like that, I will often send the person a private message via Messenger just to check on them and see if they’re OK. When someone cries for help or expresses sadness on Facebook, I feel compelled to respond and extend them an olive branch.

 

[rob666]

My sister keeps in touch with her kids and grandkids via facebook.
They tried and failed to drag me in...
I have no need to see what other people are having for lunch in the pub thank you, I can live very happily without such photographic information.

 

[Danny]

When it comes to social media and theme parks, there's too much 'gatekeeping' and 'social hierarchy' implemented (including by certain individuals within Merlin yas queen) to make it not only fun, but also accessible to new enthusiasts. Forums are much better for in depth discussion that doesn't get lost and removes the hierarchy element. The downside is when false information gets across from social media channels onto the forum (the culprits reading this will know damn well who they are ).

The nature of my job means I'm far more immersed in social media than I care to be. It's a powerful marketing and community building tool, but also saps the fun out of it when you're spending hours and hours a day/week/month planning and preparing content, responding to people, and trying to justify certain strategies on top of everything else involved in the job.

My other biggest gripe is people who shape their lives by social media, and I have a few friends who are hideously obsessed with it. Opening Facebook and seeing 160282 posts a day about their life as if it's a story book, or trawling through 20 million Instagram stories from hipster bars that cost a fortune to depict life as if it's perfect. Live your damn life the way it's meant to be lived; not by the way you want people to see it digitally on social media.

 

[Matt.GC]

The downside is when false information gets across from social media channels onto the forum (the culprits reading this will know damn well who they are ).

You're saying that some of the social media rumours from "people in the know" and "reliable sources" may not be true and many are completely made up? I refuse to believe it. I'm clutching my WD40 can and you can't get it from my tight grip. Keeping the hope alive!

Although I have concerns that some of the culprits don't know who they are and are actually suckered in by some of it.

 

[Matt N]

You're saying that some of the social media rumours from "people in the know" and "reliable sources" may not be true and many are completely made up? I refuse to believe it. I'm clutching my WD40 can and you can't get it from my tight grip. Keeping the hope alive!

Although I have concerns that some of the culprits don't know who they are and are actually suckered in by some of it.

I’m not sure it would be fair to imply that every rumour from this type of source is untrue. Many rumours stemming from social media have turned out to be true as of late.

That’s not to say that some social media rumours aren’t ultimately proven inaccurate, because plenty certainly are; social media isn’t necessarily correct all the time. I don’t deny that plenty of stuff said on social media does not come true. It’s always worth taking things from social media with a pinch of salt, as you would any rumour.

However, some seem to dismiss a rumour as 100% incorrect the second social media is mentioned as the source in spite of many social media rumours having been proven correct lately, and I’m not entirely sure why.

 

[Matt.GC]

I’m not sure it would be fair to imply that every rumour from this type of source is untrue. Many rumours stemming from social media have turned out to be true as of late.

That’s not to say that some social media rumours aren’t ultimately proven inaccurate, because plenty certainly are; social media isn’t necessarily correct all the time. I don’t deny that plenty of stuff said on social media does not come true. It’s always worth taking things from social media with a pinch of salt, as you would any rumour.

However, some seem to dismiss a rumour as 100% incorrect the second social media is mentioned as the source in spite of many social media rumours having been proven correct lately, and I’m not entirely sure why.

That wasn't a dig at you Matt as I know you usually do see the scepticism of validity coming and go to lengths to research the poster. But a rumour is as good as 100% not true until there's some evidence beyond 1 persons post. This goes back to problems of social media Vs the scrutiny of a forum. Social media is public and used to broadcast ones self and you never really know the intentions of the poster. Challenge it and to go back to Danny's point, because there's many more layers to the types of people on social media, it gets lost in the crowd and again, you never know the intentions of the respondents.

You don't get that as much in a forum. Some of us know each other in real life. Many of us don't know each other from Adam. There's less of an incentive to broadcast with alterior motives, there's a more captive audience who are at least reading the same book even if they're not on the same page.

I'm not sure your confidence in social media posts being correct much of the time is true. Some of yours personally maybe, but there's a reason why WD40gate has become such a running joke. Look closer and you'll find more nonsense has been posted from Twitter and Facebook links than concrete genuine stuff. Then you have the blurred lines of how things are run away with. I've seen threads where 1 persons opinion has quickly turned into a "rumour" which has then quickly transitioned to being discussed as fact. This then confuses other members who join conversations further down the line. Who remembers the Jazz land stuff? Exodus being described as having "insane airtime" from a social media post before the plans were submitted, let alone a single footer being laid.

Some of these things will always exist (and did) before social media. But social media amplifies them and is often relied upon as a "source". Sub Terra may well reopen, but not because someone spotted a can of well know brand aerosol oil on site.

Discussion of things others post outside the forum is fine that's what sites like this are all about. But it's important to keep a perspective on what's opinion, what's rumour and what is fact. I don't take social media posts with a "pinch of salt", I start from the point that they are opinion, of one person, who's motives I'm not sure of, until I see more evidence.