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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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Similar to the post above.....I think Merlin have started to realise what makes money. Why build a 1.4m thrill machine every 4 years that only a fraction of your guests will even ride. Plenty of visitors are not 1.4m and not all the ones that are want high thrills either.

If they built world class 1.2m family thrill coasters that satisfy the thrill seekers enough but also attract a lot more riders they are on to a winner.

I think every other SW should be a 1.4m coaster from now on.
 
Benjsh said:
Similar to the post above.....I think Merlin have started to realise what makes money. Why build a 1.4m thrill machine every 4 years that only a fraction of your guests will even ride. Plenty of visitors are not 1.4m and not all the ones that are want high thrills either.

If they built world class 1.2m family thrill coasters that satisfy the thrill seekers enough but also attract a lot more riders they are on to a winner.

I think every other SW should be a 1.4m coaster from now on.
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To be fair, The Smiler has been very, very successful, and that is a 1.4m coaster. Ditto with Nemesis, Oblivion and Air/Galactica, although they were admittedly from a different era.

Thrill coasters can definitely bring success, in my opinion. And I don’t think that having loads of thrill coasters is a formula for failure, either; look at places like Cedar Point. As long as you don’t completely alienate the family market, I think thrill parks can work.

Although with that being said, Wicker Man is currently by far my favourite coaster on park, so I definitely wouldn’t complain if they built more coasters like it!
 
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I would agree that Towers needs probably a world-class coaster. Something along the lines of an Intamin/RMC/Vekoma is something that I think the park needs (ideally as SW9 before 2025), but they also need to sort out the rest of the park and add some flat rides, shows, and sort out the SBNO rides.
 
Matt N said:
To be fair, The Smiler has been very, very successful, and that is a 1.4m coaster. Ditto with Nemesis, Oblivion and Air/Galactica, although they were admittedly from a different era.

Thrill coasters can definitely bring success, in my opinion. And I don’t think that having loads of thrill coasters is a formula for failure, either; look at places like Cedar Point. As long as you don’t completely alienate the family market, I think thrill parks can work.

Although with that being said, Wicker Man is currently by far my favourite coaster on park, so I definitely wouldn’t complain if they built more coasters like it!
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I think the industry is changing and I'm not advocating for no more 1.4m thrill coasters. I just don't think they need anymore until they replace any of the existing ones.

I think more high quality 1.2m coasters would do more for the resort. Resorts bring in families after all.

Thorpe is finding out that the hard way. A park of thrill coasters is good for coaster enthusiasts but not so much for the bank balance.

On my trip to Cedar Point few years ago I was shocked to see how many family rides they had there. It's a lot more than you think.
 
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Benjsh said:
I think the industry is changing and I'm not advocating for no more 1.4m thrill coasters. I just don't think they need anymore until they replace any of the existing ones.

I think more high quality 1.2m coasters would do more for the resort. Resorts bring in families after all.

Thorpe is finding out that the hard way. A park of thrill coasters is good for coaster enthusiasts but not so much for the bank balance.

On my trip to Cedar Point few years ago I was shocked to see how many family rides they had there. It's a lot more than you think.
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It is also worth bearing in mind that many of the more modern coaster/Train designs allow for thrilling rides, yet still maintain that 1.2m high restriction. Untamed is a prime example.
 
Connor98 said:
It is also worth bearing in mind that many of the more modern coaster/Train designs allow for thrilling rides, yet still maintain that 1.2m high restriction. Untamed is a prime example.
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Exactly.

My lad turns 7 in 4 months. Towers hasnt been worth a trip for us last few years as there's not much for him to do. He's too old for Cbeebies and not big enough for a bulk of the coasters there.

They really need to target rides and areas that are for all the family and still add the odd 1.4m coaster every now and then to keep it fresh.
 
Benjsh said:
Exactly.

My lad turns 7 in 4 months. Towers hasnt been worth a trip for us last few years as there's not much for him to do. He's too old for Cbeebies and not big enough for a bulk of the coasters there.

They really need to target rides and areas that are for all the family and still add the odd 1.4m coaster every now and then to keep it fresh.
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I think the park really needs to look at what is missing and works well for the 7-10 year olds. Gangsta Granny is a step in the right direction, but there needs to be more similar non-coaster type additions that are good for the older than CBeebies crowd.
 
There's plenty of scope to provide more rides/attractions that can be suited for all ages, it's just whether Towers will bother. The Dungeons can easily be scrapped with a more appealing theme in place. The 4D cinema could easily return. Plenty of more empty buildings in Cloud Cuckoo Land to house indoor, 'for all the family' attractions. Duel could be given a retheme, or house a trackless dark ride aimed at families. The park could do with a water ride (or a new log flume ride).

Towers is a bit on either end of the spectrum at the moment. You get all-out thrill or rides just for the little ones, not a whole lot available that closes the gap. Wicker Man is a good start. Gangsta Granny should hopefully mark the start of a few years of CCL being rejuvenated.

In terms of the next 'big investment', whether that be SW9 or not, a log flume/water ride or Duel retheme/trackless ride in the same building would be at the top of my list.
 
I'd like to hope that with COVID probably stopping large scale investments for a while such as SW9, that we might see flats coming in as a much cheaper option whilst still providing new investments. Also sort Sub-Terra out, the ride system is still in place so wouldn't require too much effort. We need ideally two replacements in FV (get rid of Blade), one in X-Sector (maybe two replacing Enterprise?) and add one to Dark Forest. In terms of the next coaster investment, maybe 2024/2025?
 
Problem with opening loads of filler rides is they have to be staffed and that costs money. There's a cost vs potential return assessment made and most of the time it just isn't economical to do it.

NST won't ever return for me but if it ever did it would need to be reworked to cut down on staff massively.

David Williams Gangster Granny Ride I can see being very popular though. Just hope the throughput will be better than I fear.
 
Benjsh said:
Problem with opening loads of filler rides is they have to be staffed and that costs money. There's a cost vs potential return assessment made and most of the time it just isn't economical to do it.
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Most well designed flat rides only need 1-3 staff though, things like Blade often run only with one person on off-peak days.

Its things with several poorly designed pre-shows or other elements that are more staff intensive. Although compare Hex with NST, Hex needs one at the entrance queue and then just 2-3 at the madhouse ride, the show rooms don't need staff. Whereas NST seemed to need several for each section of pre-show and for the ride area, plus baggage room etc. It just was poorly thought out.
 
I can't see any way staff could be cut from Sub-Terra without causing detriment to the experience. It's very poorly designed. I think it would be viable for it to become a peak-day only or seasonal attraction.

I would welcome it as a Scarefest addition with an extended maze at the end, offered as a premium scare experience - or it could be included as a free Scarefest attraction which would certainly keep its popularity up.
 
It does make sence to have s-t as a scarefest attraction but the only thing i cant wrap my head over is thats alot of down time for a good ride
Granted it takes a heck of alot of staff to run it effectively to give the real experience but to try and run it as another attraction for the rest of the year would be a major undertaking and one hell of a headache,but what other options are available for a part time attraction?
Just my thoughts^^
 
So, with SW9 originally being rumoured for 2022, and presuming it has been pushed back by (at least) a year to 2023, if we follow the planning application timescale of Wicker Man we should see plans early summer this year.

I can’t decide if I’m being too optimistic, Merlin have signalled they still intend to pursue new investments with the likes of Croc Drop proceeding and the new Peppa Pig park/land in Florida, however there is still every chance that the ride could have been pushed to 2024. Do we think 2023 is still realistic for SW9?
 
MakoMania said:
So, with SW9 originally being rumoured for 2022, and presuming it has been pushed back by (at least) a year to 2023, if we follow the planning application timescale of Wicker Man we should see plans early summer this year.

I can’t decide if I’m being too optimistic, Merlin have signalled they still intend to pursue new investments with the likes of Croc Drop proceeding and the new Peppa Pig park/land in Florida, however there is still every chance that the ride could have been pushed to 2024. Do we think 2023 is still realistic for SW9?
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With Merlin’s investments; it’s worth noting that Croc Drop was ordered and under construction pre-COVID, so I don’t think their investment strategy would have been represented by Croc Drop still opening in 2021. You raise a good point with the Peppa Pig park in Florida, however, as the planning permit for that went in post-COVID, and it’s also worth remembering that Shaman at Gardaland is currently undergoing a full retrack (arguably a far riskier thing to do than building a new coaster, in commercial terms), so I don’t think Merlin is scrimping on investment by any means.

I think 2023/2024 is a realistic expectation, personally. Most operators are pushing back plans by a year or so as opposed to cancelling them or pushing them so far back into the future, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we do see SW9 at some point around then. There were indications that the park had already been planning SW9 pre-COVID (for example, there were rumours that the ride had already started early planning when Wicker Man was in the late stages of construction, and at an RCCGB event in 2019, it was said that more info could be expected in 2020 and that it “wasn’t wood”), so I wouldn’t be surprised if we did see something in 2023 or 2024.

On the flip side, there have been no real rumours about anything specific, or a strong indication that anything is brewing behind the scenes, which there definitely was at this point in 2016 with Wicker Man. However, stranger things have happened in the past, and we may well have some signs and rumours begin to appear later in the year.

Another thing to back up that we might see SW9 in 2023 or 2024 is that social distancing should have been abolished by then (by Boris’ roadmap, it might potentially have been abolished after 21st June), so the park would be able to see a decent return on any investment it makes. The park may even want something big once social distancing has been abolished, to “come back with a bang”, as it were.

So, in conclusion, I think 2023 is definitely a realistic hope for an SW9 opening. If it, or an equivalent major investment, hasn’t happened by 2025, I’d be quite surprised.
 
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People will still want to see new rides and attractions, the pandemic won't stop that and if things are back to normal by the summer as the goverment hope then the need to invest to keep customers returning will come back.
 
Honestly I don't see 2023 being a realistic opening for any new major ride based on everything that has happened over the past year. I think the best way to go forward would be to invest in flat ride replacements, starting small/medium investments and building back up to the next coaster when finances have recovered/have started to recover.

Who knows though, anything could be possible.
 
I don't think 2023 is that unrealistic, however we would start hearing rumours and see some movement on the proposed site pretty soon for that to be the case. I can see towers maybe going down the same route they did with galactica, a re-vamp & re-theme of a current attraction. More than likely that would be Nemesis if the rumoured re-track does go ahead, we could also see some new theming and extensive marketing to go along with it.
 
It's a bit painful to imagine a whole season without Nemesis in the line-up. I really think we'd notice queue times across the park suffer pretty massively as a result.
 
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