TBC: SW9 Speculation

[JAperson]

The park lacks decent airtime so I’d love to see a terrain hugging B&M hyper with lots of airtime hills. In terms of location, is it not beyond the realms of possibility to revisit the cross valley plans? Perhaps it could work if the bulk of the hardware was in DF and FV and the track actually in and around the valley was just runaway track, much like the restrictions placed on Thirteen.

I'd say it was possible but the park would probably have to make compromises to get the planners and locals on side. I imagine getting permission there would be very expensive and it was cancelled last time likely because of that.

How much land is available in the forest behind thirteen and could that be used

When they built thirteen they were only permitted to put a single line of track through the woods to avoid chopping down too many trees. The same restrictions would apply meaning that some space would have to be made somewhere else in the Dark forest for station, lift hill/launch, maintenance and anything else that would require significant foundations. Meaning they would likely have to remove Rita to be able to build anything substantial there.

 

[Gingerminks]

I'd say it was possible but the park would probably have to make compromises to get the planners and locals on side. I imagine getting permission there would be very expensive and it was cancelled last time likely because of that.

When they built thirteen they were only permitted to put a single line of track through the woods to avoid chopping down too many trees. The same restrictions would apply meaning that some space would have to be made somewhere else in the Dark forest for station, lift hill/launch, maintenance and anything else that would require significant foundations. Meaning they would likely have to remove Rita to be able to build anything substantial there.

Yeah I expected as much #SaveRita

 

[Matt N]

The park lacks decent airtime so I’d love to see a terrain hugging B&M hyper with lots of airtime hills. In terms of location, is it not beyond the realms of possibility to revisit the cross valley plans? Perhaps it could work if the bulk of the hardware was in DF and FV and the track actually in and around the valley was just runaway track, much like the restrictions placed on Thirteen.

I certainly think it would be possible, and I absolutely love the sound of that idea!

The key reasons the cross-valley woodie was withdrawn were noise and the amount of tree clearance required.

I think your idea would have an easier time getting through planning than the woodie did because:

• Woodies, especially large-scale ones, are typically quite noisy rides, whereas newer B&Ms can be made relatively quiet. That solves the noise problem.
• B&M hypers necessitate far less supports than any woodie, thus limiting the tree clearance required.

 

[Thameslink Rail]

If you are particularly interested in the planning restrictions at Alton Towers I would recommend reading this article https://towersstreet.com/features/articles/alton-towers-planning-restrictions/

 

[kydog1299]

Despite the social teams teasing SW9, I highly doubt they're in the know about anything right now.

Look at it from a different perspective. By tweeting in replies to people about SW9, they build speculation amongst users on social media platforms (as well as sites like this), they get their name and brand seen by more people, and ultimately their reach/engagement figures increase. In effect, you're doing the social team's job for them

I very much doubt the social teams will be in the know about this kind of stuff right now. Usually, in businesses like these, you'll have guest relations execs responding to guest comments on social media, and then a marketing team who churn out CRM, social and brand content. I wouldn't expect many to be in the know about SW9 right now.

 

[Matt.GC]

I'm not wishing to see Rita go. It's not awesome, but it's not bad. Dark Forest would be crap with or without it. Although a replacement for it could make the area great, you just know that it wouldn't be anything to do with it and would just make Thirteen look even sillier. If you knock down the food outlets and use some of the space behind the Skyride station there's plenty of room there. But I can't see it making financial sense to rip out a 16 year old coaster. It's the only place other than Kantanga where I can see them having enough room to build a coaster of acceptable length without going outside the current theme park boundary's.

I don't like the idea of Forbidden Valley either (mind you, until all the other issues with the park are fixed, I don't like the idea of SW9 any time soon full stop). I think the amount of space there for a new coaster is over exaggerated on these pages. Just look at a map of the area, even if you rip out blade and the arcade, it's very narrow and going anywhere nearer to the edge of the valley than Galactica does is out of the question so I wouldn't even bother thinking they'll do that.

The only thing I can see them fitting there is either another shuttle coaster (please no!) like they had before with Thunder Looper or something very compact and rubbish shoved in the corner over the old Burger Kitchen, Ripsaw and Blade site.

I'd still go for a Mack launch or a prototype B&M with tonnes of air time as it's something the park severely lacks (they even managed to somehow build a woodie with virtually no airtime). A decent length air time machine by either quality manufacturer would do the trick but as we know, when Merlin tend to build premium coasters they tend to build them tiny.

 

[s_g_k]

With no real space available without some major rides being removed, could we see the Galactica car park being eyed up for park expansion? I heard they also want to tarmac a couple of the fields they use too. If they use this area, they could perhaps also add a couple of support rides and a food outlet, meaning capacity would be increased more than it would be with just the addition of SW9. More capacity means a greater ROI.

Without the removal of CRR or them building into the woods, I can’t think of where else SW9 could go. I know I posted previously about a B&M hyper spanning DF and FV but I just don’t think there’s the room either side for the bulk of the hardware

 

[pluk]

With no real space available without some major rides being removed,

Really?!

They may use a nice flat empty piece of land for convenience, but there are loads places to slip in a decent sized attraction across the park.

 

[s_g_k]

SWs are huge installations by default though and without removing attractions I reckon they’d struggle to skip one in somewhere

 

[JAperson]

With no real space available without some major rides being removed, could we see the Galactica car park being eyed up for park expansion? I heard they also want to tarmac a couple of the fields they use too. If they use this area, they could perhaps also add a couple of support rides and a food outlet, meaning capacity would be increased more than it would be with just the addition of SW9. More capacity means a greater ROI.

Without the removal of CRR or them building into the woods, I can’t think of where else SW9 could go. I know I posted previously about a B&M hyper spanning DF and FV but I just don’t think there’s the room either side for the bulk of the hardware

I know it has been mentioned a few times but I can't see Merlin wanting all that hassle and cost. To be honest I think it would be more likely for them to remove one of the existing rides to make space rather than them doing that.
There is a few other spaces they can use and some were we don't know whether they're allowed to build. For example John Wardley once mentioned that before Smiler they had a plan to build a stand-up coaster in Katanga Canyon I have no idea exactly where they would have put this but they clearly had a idea. I presume some of the track would have gone between katanga canyon and gloomy wood and I see no reason, as long as they are careful that they couldn't get some permission there.

Looking at it on google earth there is some space around that area. They would have to be careful and clever about it but I'm sure that's possible:

I also still think there's room in forbidden valley although they would have to be clever with space and perhaps they would need to excavate a bit to fit more track in. I do think it's less from ideal but certainly possible

Edit: photo's won't load so I'll link them in order below:
https://ibb.co/MRH2296
https://ibb.co/SPRFBw0

 

[pluk]

SWs are huge installations by default though and without removing attractions I reckon they’d struggle to skip one in somewhere

AT must be just about the least densely developed theme park on the planet. While there are areas that would never get planning there are loads of places a major development could fit in, unless it needs to go in a big building.

If they were to develop into the carpark I'd hope it'd be for a large scale dark ride. It seems they can get away with decent sized buildings up there, but that's one thing they really would struggle with in the existing park.

 

[Matt N]

If they were to develop into the carpark I'd hope it'd be for a large scale dark ride. It seems they can get away with decent sized buildings up there, but that's one thing they really would struggle with in the existing park.

That's a really neat idea, actually; groundwork costs would be fairly low compared with any potential area in the existing park (the Air car park is flat), and it's also a big space that would lend itself well to a large-scale dark ride or indoor coaster!

I certainly wouldn't say no to that idea, anyway!

 

[s_g_k]

Forgot about the woods behind Wickerman, CRR and gloomy wood! Definitely big enough.
A big indoor coaster also sounds like a great idea. Maybe they should move Thirteen into a warehouse so it can actually operate and prey no one notices?

 

[Matt.GC]

If you completely dominate the remaining space in Forbidden Valley (which would likely ruin it) and demolish most of the buildings, this is the realistic space left below. For comparison, that's a similar size footprint to the Smiler, which is built mostly at the bottom of a hill, in a pit and known for it's tight and compact layout. It's also smaller in size than both Galactica and Nemesis, themselves not big coasters which also had the luxury of being there first and not having to fit around other coasters. Both Galactica and Nemesis also required excavation, Nemesis pit cost half the total cost of the ride itself.

In this space, you'd need to do considerable excavation due to how high up it is (Forbidden Valley slopes down from here, this is it's highest point), find space for walkways (only some of which can safely go underneath a coaster, or at great cost, above it), a considerable length queue line, a maintenance shed, a station, a gift shop, supporting attractions and some sort of retail and food & bev provision (which could go in the area by Galactica).

It's possible of course, but they'd be extremely restricted with layout, height and cost. To put a coaster here it'd likely be small, a shuttle or very costly. Of course they could use the area at the bottom by Galactica and Nemesis break run but that's even more restricted layout wise.

I'm not saying it's not feasible and that something decent can't be built there. I also wouldn't rule it out. I just don't know why cramming 3 coasters into this area seems to be such a popular choice for speculation when there are far more suitable locations around the park.

 

[Matt N]

If you completely dominate the remaining space in Forbidden Valley (which would likely ruin it) and demolish most of the buildings, this is the realistic space left below. For comparison, that's a similar size footprint to the Smiler, which is built mostly at the bottom of a hill, in a pit and known for it's tight and compact layout. In this space, you'd need to do considerable excavation due to how high up it is (Forbidden Valley slopes down from here, this is it's highest point), find space for walkways (only some of which can safely go underneath a coaster, or at great cost, above it), a considerable length queue line, a maintenance shed, a station, a gift shop, supporting attractions and some sort of retail and food & bev provision (which could go in the area by Galactica).

It's possible of course, but they'd be extremely restricted with layout, height and cost. To put a coaster here it'd likely be small, a shuttle or very costly. Of course they could use the area at the bottom by Galactica and Nemesis break run but that's even more restricted layout wise.

I'm not saying it's not feasible and that something decent can't be built there. I also wouldn't rule it out. I just don't know why cramming 3 coasters into this area seems to be such a popular choice for speculation when there are far more suitable locations around the park.

I notice that you seem to be missing the Sub-Terra space; they could use that area, and that would add more space! You could also drag it out slightly and demolish the Edge games arcade too.

I think it’s a popular suggestion because that top and eastern bit of Forbidden Valley seems to have a lot of wasted space these days (it seems a bit… empty, for lack of a better word), what with Sub-Terra SBNO, many of the food outlets shut, and Ripsaw gone (I know Funk’n’Fly is there currently, but that’s only temporary).

Plenty of parks have made great stuff with very little space (look at Phantasialand, for instance); why couldn’t Towers craft something brilliant on this space?

 

[jon81uk]

If they were to develop into the carpark I'd hope it'd be for a large scale dark ride. It seems they can get away with decent sized buildings up there, but that's one thing they really would struggle with in the existing park.

i would have thought an indoor ride would make sense on the other side of the park, as being indoors helps limit the noise.

 

[JAperson]

I notice that you seem to be missing the Sub-Terra space; they could use that area, and that would add more space! You could also drag it out slightly and demolish the Edge games arcade too.

I think it’s a popular suggestion because that top and eastern bit of Forbidden Valley seems to have a lot of wasted space these days (it seems a bit… empty, for lack of a better word), what with Sub-Terra SBNO, many of the food outlets shut, and Ripsaw gone (I know Funk’n’Fly is there currently, but that’s only temporary).

Plenty of parks have made great stuff with very little space (look at Phantasialand, for instance); why couldn’t Towers craft something brilliant on this space?

I would suspect they can use some of nemesis old queue line as well as the small space behind sub terra as well.

 

[pluk]

i would have thought an indoor ride would make sense on the other side of the park, as being indoors helps limit the noise.

Pretty sure that's a complete planning no no. Would be very happy to be wrong though.

 

[Matt.GC]

I notice that you seem to be missing the Sub-Terra space; they could use that area, and that would add more space! You could also drag it out slightly and demolish the Edge games arcade too.

I think it’s a popular suggestion because that top and eastern bit of Forbidden Valley seems to have a lot of wasted space these days (it seems a bit… empty, for lack of a better word), what with Sub-Terra SBNO, many of the food outlets shut, and Ripsaw gone (I know Funk’n’Fly is there currently, but that’s only temporary).

Plenty of parks have made great stuff with very little space (look at Phantasialand, for instance); why couldn’t Towers craft something brilliant on this space?

They could. I see Icon and the space it sits in and low height it reaches and see no reason why Towers couldn't build a better one there. But I don't see why they WOULD is my point, not the that they can't.

I left NST and the Arcade there on purpose because you'd need access into the area from Gloomy Wood, the Skyride station and the lakeside walk. They would still likely need demolishing. I also didn't go all the way down to Galactica and fill in every single space because, like I said, they'd still need filler attractions, shops, food outlets, a gift shop, walkways and queue lines.

So that outline is realistically where you could build something and unless it's only a few feet tall at the top end, it would still need heavy excavation work. All this to build a coaster on a small footprint in an area that has 2 thrill coasters already, zero dark rides and 1 flat that'd have to be removed.

Again, it can be done and it can be decent. But my question is why? All sites for it would present some problems, but surely this is less desirable in terms of location unless it's going to be tiny? And if it's tiny, we won't be getting a decent length airtime machine.

 

[jon81uk]

Pretty sure that's a complete planning no no. Would be very happy to be wrong though.

See thats what I don't get with planning, adding another generic green shed next to the Cred Street (Ice Age) theatre with a themed facade on the park side shouldn't be any more obtrusive than the other green sheds (the theatre, Nickelodeon building, Dungeon building etc). Would certainly stand out less and be less noisy than an outdoor coaster would do in that area and thats why coasters were removed from there 30 years ago.
Whereas the car park between Air and the golf would make more sense for a combination of coasters and flat rides as it is further away from residential buildings and in keeping with the existing Forbidden Valley area that is coasters and flat rides.