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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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JAperson said:
Sorry @Matt N my post was a slight bit misleading there. I meant that we both thought the ride was highly possible and even likely to an extend although the general consensus is that it is unlikely. Sorry about that should have made it clearer.
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Ah, that’s fine; although not 100% confident by any means, I’m personally quite confident in there being a Thorpe hyper, and I don’t think the Towers proposal suggested is inconceivable by any means, either!
 
Matt N said:
and I don’t think the Towers proposal suggested is inconceivable by any means, either!
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Nor do I and I really hope all he's said comes true. I'm sure your all sick of me saying it but I'm really confident personally that B&M and Merlin have got a multi-ride deal. I would hedge bets that the next coaster for towers and thorpe will be from B&M just not sure personally what model.
 
A Cross Valley hyper would be great, it has long been an area where they have thought about putting a coaster and was even mentioned in a recent long term (or mid term, can't remember which) development plan so is very possible for SW9. Could even make it tallest ( i.e longest drop) in UK, while Thorpe's could be UK's tallest (height wise) meaning they get records which are obviously easily marketable.
 
A B&M hyper crossing the valley would be a great addition to the park and it’ll finally mean a decent airtime machine at the park. If it’s true, I wonder what potential themes they have in mind with it scaling two different themed areas? I did think about a potential retheme of the dark forest, but that would also also necessitate a retheme of Thirteen no doubt.
 
s_g_k said:
I did think about a potential retheme of the dark forest, but that would also also necessitate a retheme of Thirteen no doubt.
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Or maybe they could integrate the B&M into the Dark Forest theme somehow? Admittedly, I’m a little unsure how, but I’m sure the great minds at MMM could come up with something!

I do wonder how they’d integrate it into FV, though…
 
s_g_k said:
A B&M hyper crossing the valley would be a great addition to the park and it’ll finally mean a decent airtime machine at the park. If it’s true, I wonder what potential themes they have in mind with it scaling two different themed areas? I did think about a potential retheme of the dark forest, but that would also also necessitate a retheme of Thirteen no doubt.
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Problem is, I think Thorpe is more likely to get a hyper, and obviously Towers like to go for unique, world-first attractions, plus I don't think Merlin would want two of their RTPs to get the same coaster type in the same year. For that reason, I think it will be something else. Possibly the Surf Coaster, as it's rumoured to be a launch? A modern multi-launch would be a good fit for Towers.
 
Matt N said:
Or maybe they could integrate the B&M into the Dark Forest theme somehow? Admittedly, I’m a little unsure how, but I’m sure the great minds at MMM could come up with something!

I do wonder how they’d integrate it into FV, though…
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Yes that could be a potential. Perhaps something along the lines of The Dark Forest is trying to expand across the park (the track of the new coaster). Will you make it back before the vines grow further?
 
Based on SeaWorld Orlando’s lien, the Surf Coaster was basically confirmed to be a launch coaster of some kind; the lien cited a “Custom Launch Coaster” as the project that B&M was providing.
s_g_k said:
Yes that could be a potential. Perhaps something along the lines of The Dark Forest is trying to expand across the park (the track of the new coaster). Will you make it back before the vines grow further?
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That sounds great; I’d love to see something similar put onto a coaster!
 
For all we know, that's if its true, a B&M at towers could be a hyper model or a surf model or something else from B&M. There's nothing stopping it being a prototype.
 
Similarity didn't stop them doing Nemesis and Nemesis Inferno, nor did it stop them doing Rita and Stealth a year apart. I certainly wouldn't rule a hyper out on that basis alone.
 
Matt N said:
Similarity didn't stop them doing Nemesis and Nemesis Inferno, nor did it stop them doing Rita and Stealth a year apart. I certainly wouldn't rule a hyper out on that basis alone.
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Plus a hyper at Alton would be very different to a hyper at Thorpe. Thorpe's would be focused on the height and the big hills viewable from outside the park. The one at Alton would drop in and out of a valley racing through woodland. They'd be very different rides. The hyper coaster model is a very versatile model and there are quite a few parks out there that have two B&M Hypers. Look at Carowinds. They've got Fury 325 and Intimidator both of which are actually the same model but they do different things, although to a lesser extent to what Altons and Thorpes would be.
 
Matt N said:
Similarity didn't stop them doing Nemesis and Nemesis Inferno, nor did it stop them doing Rita and Stealth a year apart. I certainly wouldn't rule a hyper out on that basis alone.
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Nemesis and Inferno were a few years apart. These new coasters are rumoured to be in the same year.
 
B&M having 3 coaster deal with Merlin? Possible.

Thorpe getting a 225 ft hyper? Unlikely.

Towers getting a cross valley? Won't ever happen.

Towers getting a hyper? Never ever, dream on.

Both towers and Thorpe need airtime machines. Towers in particular needs a good launcher and is a park that struggles to gain velocity through height due to restrictions. Why would you build a massive B&M at either at great expense when you can build a smaller and cheaper Mack launch that'd give you airtime galore on a far smaller footprint?
 
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Massive pinch of salt obviously - but I’m intrigued, as he’s known to be quite reliable through his sources. It’s entirely possible this is true. We’ll have to wait and see though.
 
Matt.GC said:
B&M having 3 coaster deal with Merlin? Possible if not that plausible.

Thorpe getting a 225 ft hyper? Unlikely.

Towers getting a cross valley? Won't ever happen.

Towers getting a hyper? Never ever, dream on.

Both towers and Thorpe need airtime machines. Towers in particular needs a good launcher and is a park that struggles to gain velocity through height due to restrictions. Why would you build a massive B&M at either at great expense when you can build a smaller and cheaper Mack launch that'd give you airtime galore on a far smaller footprint?
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Yeah I completely agree. As I said, thorpe is more likely to get a hyper, and Towers is more likely to get a multi-launch.
I'll only believe it once I see plans and construction. :)
 
Now that this rumour has come to light, I've done a little digging on Google Earth at the site they have to play with.

In terms of the valley, I've concocted a rough path where such a coaster could go, based upon the description provided in the video:
Cross-Valley-Coaster-Plot-Path.png

If an out-and-back coaster followed that approximate path, Google Earth says that it would be approximately 504 metres long at its longest straight, and that excludes the curve left heading towards Blade.

For some idea, Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens Williamsburg, an existing B&M hyper, is 577 metres long, but also doesn't turn like this coaster could, so I certainly think a hyper would be doable if it dropped into the ravine. Or if it were a mini hyper that hugged the ground a little more. I know it wouldn't exactly be a typical hyper, but Nemesis was a unique B&M compared to others of its model, and look how that turned out in terms of reception, so who's to say that lightning couldn't strike twice if Towers had a play around with the B&M hyper hardware and that valley?

On a side note, I almost reckon they could create a sub-area for this coaster alone as opposed to having to integrate it into Dark Forest. Having had a look at Google Earth, the Darkest Depths area is surprisingly substantial; between the Dark Forest food outlets and the public pathway, there's an area of nearly an acre! Take a look:
Cross-Valley-Coaster-Plaza-Area.png

And to be honest, there's probably a greater area to play with than I've highlighted back there; I do see some trees that I didn't quite catch! As long as they didn't infringe upon the wall of the ruins to the left, I don't see why they couldn't clear some additional land back there and get to over an acre!
Matt.GC said:
Why would you build a massive B&M at either at great expense when you can build a smaller and cheaper Mack launch that'd give you airtime galore on a far smaller footprint?
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In terms of why Thorpe would go for a hyper; I'd wager that marketability would be a fairly strong selling point, personally. "The UK's tallest and fastest coaster" is something I can imagine having a fair amount of pizazz behind it marketing-wise, especially with Merlin in charge!

Also, based on my experiences, I'd personally wager that a hyper would provide more airtime than a Mack launch, as while I'd love a Mack launch, I don't think airtime is really the main focus of them, whereas it's usually quite a principal element of hypers. Don't get me wrong, Icon has a fair bit of airtime from my experience, and pretty strong airtime at that, but Mako was on another level entirely; from memory, there was airtime for days on that thing, and it also had a lot of sustained airtime, which I feel that the UK lacks even more sorely than airtime in general. A lot of the airtime the UK has is those quite abrupt pops, that only last for a second or so. A B&M hyper would offer sustained air potentially lasting up to 5 seconds or more per moment, and lots of those moments at that; I'd argue that there's nothing currently in the UK that offers that kind of experience.

In terms of Towers; I'll admit that I feel there are more likely options (a multi-launch like you suggested, for one), as well as more likely sites, but I'm not ruling a cross valley coaster out. I certainly reckon it would be doable if they had the vision and creativity!

For what it's worth, the video also mentioned the deal including a Nemesis retrack... which was already rumoured as is.
 
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I suppose the point I'm getting at is you can get a coaster with loads of airtime at Towers for far cheaper and less hassle. Yeah, it probably wouldn't be as good as a cross valley. But you can build a coaster that's much cheaper, much smaller and much less controversial in terms of planning than can do mostly what you want it to without having to plow through a sensitive valley at great expense.

Towers is little more than a regional park these days (albeit a very large very pretty and very historic one) full of boarded up restaurants. It has very little in way of flats and had to rent in cheap funfair ones disguised with cheesy 80's rock music last season. They can't afford to operate past 4pm on off peak days. Their attendance levels are similar to a Lego themed fairground down the road. Their last 2 'major" coasters consisted of a Gerst in a rectangular concrete pit that uses spray painted dust bins as theming and one of the smallest GCI's ever built.

No way are they forking out for a cross valley B&M hyper just because some yank on YouTube says so. Feel free to quote me on that in a few years time.

You also have physics to consider. What goes down, has to come back up. The station would presumably be at the top of the valley in FV? You have space to drop it all right, but where's the airtime hills and velocity to get back up the top to the station? It may look massive on a map but for a hyper there's actually very little space to do what you want it to. Unless of course you're just using it for length in an out and back layout, in which case the use of the drop into the valley is pointless and you may as well build it in the Air car park.
 
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