TBC: SW9 Speculation

[JAperson]

I suspect they could put track in that area but not sure about station buildings and maintenance. i believe they are allowed to build 'run off track' like with thirteen but they aren't allowed to cut down many trees. I think it would be quite cool to have a ride racing through the woods at high speeds. Thirteen has an element of it put its a littlie slow, even if it feel fast. If thirteen feels fast imagine what a ride that's actually going quite fast would feel like.
In the other areas of the woods nearer the valley I'm not really sure what they're allowed to build. Obviously they can't build in the gardens and I imagine they have to be very careful about chopping down trees in that area but as @rob666 has said there are area's that track could be squeezed in without needing to chop down many if any trees.

 

[BarryZola]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure the only place they'd have a chance of getting planning for the ride would be for it to go through the area in the original plans. Not too close to the bottom of the valley to be too close to the village and not too high to be close to the Pagoda and gardens. You'd struggle to get planning any further around Abbey Wood in the direction of the back of Burger kitchen etc due to the old iron age fort earthworks amongst other things like noise into the village. You don't get that with the original plans as the track would just dip down into the valley through a cover of trees on both sides. All you have to do then is place the stations etc on each side of the valley in suitable positions which also comply with planning restrictions. I believe I explained this through a map on here in the past but if I get bored I could do it again or see if I kept a copy. But just believe me, the track would have to pretty much go through where it was originally planned to stand ANY chance.

 

[Skyscraper]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure the only place they'd have a chance of getting planning for the ride would be for it to go through the area in the original plans. Not too close to the bottom of the valley to be too close to the village and not too high to be close to the Pagoda and gardens. You'd struggle to get planning any further around Abbey Wood in the direction of the back of Burger kitchen etc due to the old iron age fort earthworks amongst other things like noise into the village. You don't get that with the original plans as the track would just dip down into the valley through a cover of trees on both sides. All you have to do then is place the stations etc on each side of the valley in suitable positions which also comply with planning restrictions. I believe I explained this through a map on here in the past but if I get bored I could do it again or see if I kept a copy. But just believe me, the track would have to pretty much go through where it was originally planned to stand ANY chance.

They would almost certainly have fill the track with sand to reduce noise too.

Another issue with the area shown in the video is that the Skyride would be in the way (the right-hand end of the diagram is right next to the Forbidden Valley station, and covers the FV-DF section).

 

[DistortAMG]

Multipack deals often tend to reduce the price by a fair bit; the more rides purchased, the bigger the saving! Take Six Flags, for instance; many would probably have said that an Oceaneering dark ride system would have been way too expensive for Six Flags to afford, and if bought individually, they would probably be right. However, because they bought many Justice League dark rides, the price per ride became far more palatable.

Merlin has also done this with B&M before; it’s worth remembering that Raptor, Krake, Swarm, Flug der Damonen and Oblivion the Black Hole were all installed between 2011 and 2015, so I don’t think it would necessarily be inconceivable for quite a few B&M rides to be built within a short timeframe once again. The first 3 were all built in 2011 and 2012, so the timeframe was quite similar to that suggested in the video (The Nemesis retrack never had a particular year allotted to it, so that could be a bit further down the line). I don’t know about you, but the fact that Chessington and numerous Chinese Legolands are confirmed to be receiving B&M rides certainly points to a similar deal having been signed again, if you ask me.

Merlin may well have loosened the purse strings on CAPEX now they’re private again. Many said that Chessington’s new coaster definitely wouldn’t be a B&M because Merlin were “too cheap” to fork out for a B&M, but look how that turned out!

I understand people’s skepticism, but my point is; anything could happen.

Can you back these 'substantial' multiride deal discounts up with actual data, unless you can provide a source for this from either the manufacturer or park itself, it is just heresy. I am not saying the do not happen, but people seem to think these deals are the same as popping to Sainsburys and buying 3 bottles of Pepsi. Margins are not that massive as it is in rides. So substantial discounts do not exist. They cant, it makes no economical sense. Maybe a small discount, but not massive.

 

[BarryZola]

They would almost certainly have fill the track with sand to reduce noise too.

Another issue with the area shown in the video is that the Skyride would be in the way (the right-hand end of the diagram is right next to the Forbidden Valley station, and covers the FV-DF section).

Not even watched the vid yet. Will go and see how likely it looks. It's probably helping the person's Youtube views or whatever though haha.

Edit - The area shown in the vid is pretty much the same as in the original plans from years ago, so if it has been made up just to create hype, at least they've chosen pretty much the only viable area for a fabled cross-valley.

 

[Skyscraper]

Can you back these 'substantial' multiride deal discounts up with actual data, unless you can provide a source for this from either the manufacturer or park itself, it is just heresy. I am not saying the do not happen, but people seem to think these deals are the same as popping to Sainsburys and buying 3 bottles of Pepsi. Margins are not that massive as it is in rides. So substantial discounts do not exist. They cant, it makes no economical sense. Maybe a small discount, but not massive.

Plus there would be hours of negotiations to strike these deals too. They don't just happen!

 

[BarryZola]

I've knocked this up just to illustrate the point a bit more. You can see that where the original plans showed track going through the valley, it's got tree coverage all around and is more away from the village (and the iron age earthworks in Abbey Wood). If the cross-valley were ever to happen, the track needs to be in this position to be far enough away from the Pagoda and gardens but also to enjoy the coverage in the valley and to be able to hit the sides of FV and DF. Where the track goes when it hits either sides would be up for debate, as well as the station buildings etc. You can see how it could creep up through the gap left by Ripsaw though and on the opposite side of the valley it could land on the unused stretch of land behind where the Waltzers were which as Rob666 mentioned is a decent size.

 

[Matt N]

Can you back these 'substantial' multiride deal discounts up with actual data, unless you can provide a source for this from either the manufacturer or park itself, it is just heresy. I am not saying the do not happen, but people seem to think these deals are the same as popping to Sainsburys and buying 3 bottles of Pepsi. Margins are not that massive as it is in rides. So substantial discounts do not exist. They cant, it makes no economical sense. Maybe a small discount, but not massive.

I know you can get multi-ride deals with manufacturers. For instance, I’ve heard it said before that Phantasialand got Taron due to a 2-ride deal struck with Intamin following Chiapas, which I believe the park may have confirmed in the past.

I have also heard it said that Merlin did strike a deal with B&M in the early 2010s, which was what resulted in the construction of Raptor, Krake, Swarm, Flug der Damonen and Oblivion the Black Hole. At very least, I know that Merlin bought 2 Wing Coasters at once as part of a deal, because John Wardley said in Making Thorpe Park that Thorpe’s 2012 coaster was originally going to be a B&M Hyper Coaster, but Merlin HQ forced the Wing Coaster design upon them due to having a Wing Coaster going spare from a deal struck with B&M.

In terms of the discounts, I have heard it said that the reason why Six Flags was able to afford the Justice League dark rides was due to buying so many of them at once. Hence why you often see Six Flags cloning things between parks and buying in bulk. In terms of how much of a discount, though, I’m not sure on that one; I may have to get clarification on that one.

 

[Brad97]

I thought the cross valley woodie was only meant to have one station on the Dark Forest side? Or am I mistaken? I remember seeing a recreation that showed it having only one station, with two lift hills on either side of the valley.

Obviously it was a fan made video but having two stations seems a bit weird to me. You'd have to get off on one side and queue up to ride the rest of it? I can't imagine that would have been very popular.

 

[BarryZola]

I thought the cross valley woodie was only meant to have one station on the Dark Forest side? Or am I mistaken? I remember seeing a recreation that showed it having only one station, with two lift hills on either side of the valley.

Obviously it was a fan made video but having two stations seems a bit weird to me. You'd have to get off on one side and queue up to ride the rest of it? I can't imagine that would have been very popular.

You're most probably right. I havn't looked at the plans properly for years

 

[s_g_k]

The more and more I think of the cross valley plans, I think the ride itself would be dull. You’d have 2 drops, and surely that would be it? Surely it would just crawl out of the station, enter the first drop and then crawl up the hill potentially with the help of a chain lift or tyre kickers, then do exactly the same. It just doesn’t seem like enough for SW9. If it incorporated other areas to include some air time and twists then maybe, but where would all that extra track go?

 

[BarryZola]

Maybe have an indoor experience whilst seated in the coaster and then some sort of launch into a corkscrew at the bottom of the valley. Lovely airtime off the top of the valley. Or something...

 

[Matt N]

I thought the cross valley woodie was only meant to have one station on the Dark Forest side? Or am I mistaken? I remember seeing a recreation that showed it having only one station, with two lift hills on either side of the valley.

Obviously it was a fan made video but having two stations seems a bit weird to me. You'd have to get off on one side and queue up to ride the rest of it? I can't imagine that would have been very popular.

I think it did only have one station, but that actually brings me to an idea I once had regarding the cross valley coaster.

I know you say about how getting off and queueing for the other side wouldn’t be popular, but what if you thought about it in a different light… what if you thought of it as a high thrill alternative to the Skyride? Market it as “the world’s first high thrill transportation system”, and market it towards those who think the Skyride is too dull as a means of getting between areas.

I’m not personally one of those, as I often rather value a ride on the Skyride, and I think it’s a good way to catch a break between rides, but there are bound to be people who think that sort of thing. And to be fair, I can imagine it being pretty cool to be able to ride a coaster to get between Forbidden Valley and Dark Forest…

The more and more I think of the cross valley plans, I think the ride itself would be dull. You’d have 2 drops, and surely that would be it? Surely it would just crawl out of the station, enter the first drop and then crawl up the hill potentially with the help of a chain lift or tyre kickers, then do exactly the same. It just doesn’t seem like enough for SW9. If it incorporated other areas to include some air time and twists then maybe, but where would all that extra track go?

I’ll admit I wasn’t salivating over the plans like many do upon looking at them last night. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure it would have been a great ride, but it looked to lack substance beyond the two drops to me. Yes, the drops would have been huge, which would likely have provided a big rush, but there was nothing to it besides those.

Controversially, I actually think that Wicker Man is a more interesting ride to me than the cross valley woodie would have been. As much as it’s nowhere near the size, the layout has far more substance to it, and I think it’s more varied than the cross valley would have been, and I’m actually kind of glad we got Wicker Man instead of a cross valley coaster, regardless of how unique a cross valley coaster would have been.

 

[Skyscraper]

I’ll admit I wasn’t salivating over the plans like many do upon looking at them last night. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure it would have been a great ride, but it looked to lack substance beyond the two drops to me. Yes, the drops would have been huge, which would likely have provided a big rush, but there was nothing to it besides those.

Controversially, I actually think that Wicker Man is a more interesting ride to me than the cross valley woodie would have been. As much as it’s nowhere near the size, the layout has far more substance to it, and I think it’s more varied than the cross valley would have been, and I’m actually kind of glad we got Wicker Man instead of a cross valley coaster, regardless of how unique a cross valley coaster would have been.

As the old saying goes, "size doesn't matter"!

 

[rob666]

Not according to my wife.

 

[s_g_k]

Let’s stop talking about our own secret weapons and get back on topic - SW9.

Whilst I did get excited about that video, I’m still none the wiser as to what will actually happen at Alton. I do however think that SW9 may be the most interesting and surprising development at the park

 

[pluk]

The more and more I think of the cross valley plans, I think the ride itself would be dull. You’d have 2 drops, and surely that would be it? Surely it would just crawl out of the station, enter the first drop and then crawl up the hill potentially with the help of a chain lift or tyre kickers, then do exactly the same. It just doesn’t seem like enough for SW9.

Don't forget they can go up to the treeline at the top of the valley before they drop down into it, and/or launch into it, to give enough speed to get up the other side. It could be a hell of a drop and still be thrilling coming up the other side.

 

[Skyscraper]

Don't forget they can go up to the treeline at the top of the valley before they drop down into it, and/or launch into it, to give enough speed to get up the other side. It could be a hell of a drop and still be thrilling coming up the other side.

Would still be a one-trick pony though, so-to-speak.

 

[Matt N]

Don't forget they can go up to the treeline at the top of the valley before they drop down into it, and/or launch into it, to give enough speed to get up the other side. It could be a hell of a drop and still be thrilling coming up the other side.

They could well use the Darkest Depths space on the Dark Forest side; there’s a surprising amount of space there, and there is a surprising amount of forest space beyond Dark Forest before you reach the valley itself.

Out of the two sides, I certainly think DF has more potential in terms of a non-valley layout for such a ride than FV. You have quite a bit of potential blank space around Dark Forest, whereas Forbidden Valley is more densely populated.

 

[pluk]

Would still be a one-trick pony though, so-to-speak.

Why? They can do all sorts of things with it either end if they chose to, no less than with any other coaster that didn't also go into the valley. Primarily big drop and air time is fine by me though!