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The Brexit Thread

Matt N

Matt N

TS Member
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Hi guys. Sorry if this thread turns out to be a little controversial, but I thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss, as it is a very current political issue that will end up affecting most of us on this forum in some way.

So; Brexit. We all know about it a little too well at this point in time. But what do you want to see happen? Today is a very significant day in the Brexit process; MPs are being presented with 8 different options today about what to do, and Theresa May today announced that she will resign after the first stage of Brexit negotiations is over.

There are many options on the table, but which of these would you like to see? Would you like a second referendum? Or would you prefer a softer Brexit? Or maybe a no-deal Brexit is more to your taste? Or maybe even no Brexit at all? Or possibly something else entirely that I haven't suggested?

As for my opinion on the whole Brexit charade; I know I'm a bit young to have an opinion on all of this, but to tell you the truth, I never wanted to leave the EU in the first place. I like the idea of easy travel between European countries, I like the funding we get and I like being part of the culturally diverse society that the EU provides. But as for which option I'd like to see; my gut tells me that I'd like to see either a 2nd referendum or the revoking of Article 50, but that would be in violation of the result, and the government needs to honour the result of the 2016 referendum. To tell you the truth, I'm not sure which option would be best for the UK at this point.

But what are your opinions on this rather divisive topic?
 
Whatever happens I want clarity!
My role is directly affected by the outcome of brexit and brexit preparations for an unknown brexit isn't fun.
(I'm a customs clerk for a major courier company, commonly associated with the Color brown).

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Matt N said:
As for my opinion on the whole Brexit charade; I know I'm a bit young to have an opinion on all of this, but to tell you the truth, I never wanted to leave the EU in the first place. I like the idea of easy travel between European countries, I like the funding we get and I like being part of the culturally diverse society that the EU provides. But as for which option I'd like to see; my gut tells me that I'd like to see either a 2nd referendum or the revoking of Article 50
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I’m absolutely the same, Matt. Probably couldn’t have put in better words myself.
Matt N said:
but that would be in violation of the result, and the government needs to honour the result of the 2016 referendum.
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I think the issue with the first referendum is that, at that point in time it was a black and white “yes or no” question. People voted, but they voted for a fantasy scenario sold to them by politicians that is not, and was never, possible in reality. People know that now, and really, I think we should be given the right to decide wether we are happy with what is being proposed by the government (because it really isn’t what people voted for in the first referendum).
 
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I think there's only one real option here. We nuke Northan Ireland. Then we can crack on with leaving Europe in peace.
Before nuking them as well. All of them. Especially Europa Park.
 
Too many people the voted leave after reading the side of a bus and believing it, moaned that they were lied to by the leave campaign.
As i said at the time politicians lie.

It is so much of a mess now i don't know what the heck is going on.

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DiogoJ42 said:
I think there's only one real option here. We nuke Northan Ireland. Then we can crack on with leaving Europe in peace.
Before nuking them as well. All of them. Especially Europa Park.
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You have been playing too much risk.

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As much as I know you remainers out there are smiling to yourself and having regular little laughs because the people who voted for us to leave are not going to get our way (May's deal is not leaving as was outlined by Cameron before the vote), in a quiet moment somewhere down the line in a year or so you're going to have a moment of clarity where you admit to yourself that you have indeed laughed along whilst what was left of democracy in this country was destroyed by most of our politicians, egged on by a proportion of the public who couldn't accept that the vote didn't turn out the way that they wanted it to.

Imagine being offered the 'once in a lifetime' chance to vote on something and being told it would be carried out if enough people voted for it. Imagine that enough people voted for this outcome. Imagine if a general election was then held and a party was voted in on a manifesto confirming that they would carry out the result of said vote. Imagine the leader of that party telling you that we would be leaving on a certain date over and over and over and over again. Imagine then that the nearer you get to this date, the more that politicians start making new rules up and voting between themselves time and time again until they've pretty much completely ignored the decision that the public made, simply because the majority of said politicians wish to remain themselves.

Imagine that out of those 17.4 million people that at least one lunatic wacko isn't going to do something outrageous due to the anger that has been caused by the biggest betrayal of the public that I can personally remember. I mean, I'm a cynic and I've always known that politicians can be corrupt etc, but this is on a whole new level. I never expected them to do it so blatently and publicly. We've lost any right to tell any other country that they need to be more democratic.
 
We never even left, so any sh!t hitting the fan is most probably a result of in-decision caused by people throwing a spanner in the works every 5 minutes. The truth is no-one will ever know if it would have been a miserable failure or an eventual success, because people couldn't stand to giving it a go. Experts may have called some things correctly, and may also have got some predictions wrong. But that's besides the point anyway. The majority of people voted to leave, and they have been ignored. I'm not comfortable with that, but each to their own.
 
The options on the ballot paper were leave and remain

We are (probably) leaving. If and when that happens it's promise kept (though at the time it wasn't a promise).

Nobody was asked how we wanted to leave, those promoting leave were never in a position to deliver it. Hardly surprising then that the manner of exiting won't please every leaver. I don't buy the idea of a betrayal of the masses either, as it assumes all those who voted leave did so for the same reasons and wanted the same sort of relationship with Europe in the future which, given that people on both the far-left and far-right supported brexit, seems rather unlikely.
 
Just for openness. I voted to remain, and said at the time 'if the vote is to leave, then i am backing a good brexit'

So i am not moaning that we are leaving. I am moaning that noone has a flipping clue on how to deliver it.

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In case you missed it; none of the 8 options won a majority in the House of Commons this evening. The two most popular options were a permanent customs union and a second referendum; it is being heavily hinted that we will see another vote regarding these on Monday.

After tonight's vote, I definitely think a second referendum would be a good thing, as Parliament now seems a little stuck with regards to a direction to go in for Brexit. A second opinion from the people may give Parliament a little more motivation to support something and limit down their options a little. If a second referendum goes and Brexit is voted for; that's fine! It shows that there is still motivation for the country to leave and I will happily accept our non-EU future, despite my own preference to remain. If a second referendum goes and we vote to remain; that's also fine! I personally think that we need another opinion from the people now that we know a little more about what Brexit might actually entail than what we did in June 2016.

But one thing I will say is; stick with it, guys! I'm sure it will all be fine in the end, whether we remain or leave!
 
Every Brexit deal you've ever dreamed of rolled into one; Brexiteers and Remainers alike would love it! ;)
 
Matt N said:
I like being part of the culturally diverse society that the EU provides
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I'm not trying to blame you or anything, but this is the biggest misconception about the EU. The EU does not provide Europe with the amazing, diverse and rich culture it has enjoyed for centuries. It is a political union and should be treated us such.

I think it's very sad how misled and conflated the whole debate is in the media. And the 'group think' thing that plagues politics today (maybe it always has, I dont know).

If you're "A Leaver" then youre a caricature, you "only voted that way because of Nigel Farage" or "because of Boris Johnson", and you're closed minded towards Europe (what, the whole continent?).
Or if you're "A Remainer", then your mind is a rainbow, like its the obvious choice for today's society and anyone who says differently must be bigoted somehow. What a ridiculous way to frame a political debate.

Those being the flag-bearers for both sides tend to caricature themselves equally badly in the media too.

These 'leaver'/'remainer' terms and assumptions for why people voted are completely irrelevant. I think that's just the effect of media on the whole, but it always ends up derailing any real debate. There are good points to be had on both sides of the argument, but so rarely does the actual EU seem to get discussed!

I adore Europe. I'm not particularly patriotic, but I really appreciate the great things about this country. I don't think any of that has anything to do with the EU. In an ideal world, maybe the EU really would just be a friendly union working together for continental peace, but that's very naive now.

But I admit I have no idea which way I would vote today. It's tough!
 
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