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The Brexit Thread

Brexit is not a yes and no question. Brexit has numerous aspects that cannot be answered easily whatsoever. Regardless of how you feel about brexit, a deal or no deal occurring will change nothing. Brexit is going to continue in the news because for instance, there are major trade deals that need to be done and how the EU-UK relationship operates.
 
It's taken us over 2 years to have a thread on here about Brexit. My god, we're later to the party than Parliament!

Brexit is one big jolly mess. Do I want us to leave? No. Do I think that the result of the referendum has to be respected? Probably otherwise there will no doubt be riots and yet more division. Do I see a solution in sight? No way!

There should never have been a referendum in the first place but Cameron put himself ahead of the interests of the country. May has negotiated a deal that some say is good and others say is bad. As far as I am concerned, a deal is better than no deal.

So to be honest, I think I just want them to go ahead with her deal and get on to negotiating our future relationship with the EU. In terms of the whole process this is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end!
 
Matt N said:
the government needs to honour the result of the 2016 referendum
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At the point of the referendum there were many unknowns and exaggerated truths along with some blatant lies.

I consider myself politically aware and follow current affairs but the situation we are now faced with is entirely different to how it looked at the time, even after watching the many televised debates and listening to everyone’s opinions, however informed they might have been.

I therefore think that a second referendum, or confirmatory vote, is the proper way forward here.

It’s a very divisive issue - I’ve argued about Brexit with friends and family with whom I’ve never argued before.

One thing it has confirmed to me is that the majority of politicians are scoundrels who will do whatever they need to do and flip sides to get what they want or progress their political careers. Boris and Rees-Mogg have both been very vocal Brexiteers and now the position of PM is available they suddenly support her deal.

I feel we should remain in the EU for many reasons but mostly because I don’t trust our politicians and without the EU keeping them in check who knows what they might do.
 
Rob said:
Do I think that the result of the referendum has to be respected? Probably otherwise there will no doubt be riots and yet more division.
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I've heard this a few times, but I think whatever happens there will be civil unrest because so many millions of people will be unhappy. Whether we leave or not, the country is in big trouble because it's so divided. Nothing will bring it together again.

The indicative votes tonight I think represent the country, i.e. there's no clear consensus of what to do next. It was irresponsible to offer a choice of remain or leave, when leave actually meant so many variables that were undefined and still remain undefined. Perhaps formulating a plan first then holding a referendum on that would've been wiser...
 
Time for a new election. After first shooting every single current MP to ensure they can never screw us over again. Ban political parties and make everyone stand for what THEY want, rather than being forced to obey the party whip.

Or just make me your overlord.
 
Alsty said:
Perhaps formulating a plan first then holding a referendum on that would've been wiser...
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Even if we had a plan and all of the likely options laid out before, a referendum means we’re still asking the bloke in the pub or your grandma to make decisions on issues that aren’t even fully understood by those with degree level education, based on what they feel.
 
On the point of democracy, a democracy can change its mind. We had no idea what Brexit would look like in the initial vote so I think it's only fair another vote is held on the Brexit deal. I also think it should be put to 16 and 17 year olds this time round, as I was too young to vote last time

My opinion is travel should be easier and we need to work towards closer international relations, thus I support being in the EU and Scotland being in the UK despite neither being perfect.
 
Sure. :) I say we keep the little buggers locked in cages as well. With no internet access.

Getting back to Brexit, the only logical way to resolve the current deadlock is to gather all MPs in the commons and lock the doors. Last one left alive gets to pick what happens.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
Sure. :) I say we keep the little buggers locked in cages as well. With no internet access.

Getting back to Brexit, the only logical way to resolve the current deadlock is to gather all MPs in the commons and lock the doors. Last one left alive gets to pick what happens.
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I thought you would say that :D

TBH your idea is probably the only way we'll make progress on this ...
 
Many views here on both sides and both have reasons for believing them that we should all listen to! I think the important thing is that we all accept we have different viewpoints and avoid stereotyping or allowing emotions to cloud our judgement! Neither side is stupid, and neither side can be jumped in to a single group, as much as the media would like us to think that.

I did vote leave and have supported leaving since 2014, do believe the EU works for and is heavily lobbied by big business interests rather than its population, and that it is not democratic and cannot ever, ever be reformed. But am I short sighted enough to assume I'm some all knowing being who possesses pure factual scientific knowledge. No, I'm a human being, I have subjective views, and despite my strong sense of belief in these issues, I should still try to understand why others form their own viewpoints.

Of course, a bit of rowdy debate here and there can be good, as through disagreeing at least we can be honest and open about how we feel about these things. But I don't think politics needs to be as toxic as some people think it does. I think some will probably sigh when they see this as a topic or imagine some huge row breaking out, but perhaps it isn't actually all that bad, and we are all decent civil people!
 
The problem with this whole sorry saga was never a case of "you remainers " vs "Brexiteers". The problem was the shambolic referendum itself.

It was called for grossly innopropriate reasons, at the wrong time, by a weak prime minister, asking the wrong question which lead to an outrageously farcical campaign on both sides.

That's why, in my view, Cameron was the most incompetent prime minister since.Jim Callaghan.

It's also why, as someone who actually wants to leave the EU, I ended up voting remain. Not because I wanted to stay part of this ever more oppressive regime, but because I knew there was no plan or competence in the government in which to carry it out. So I voted for the status quo.

To use a metaphore, I saw the option on the ballet paper as kip in the back seat of the car in the pub car park a little longer, or give my keys to the guy who's bean at the bar with me all night and is smashed in the hope he'll somehow get me home safely.
 
I voted remain and will do so again.

The whole Brexit debate has very much divided the country and I'm sure that the only thing that we all can agree on, is that the past two years of negotiations have been a complete shambles.

Leaving the EU was always going to be complex and the last two years are only the start of it. If we ever do leave, there will be many more years of negotiating to come before this mess is completely sorted out, by then, I will be six foot under.
 
My biggest issue with Brexit, is what do people want from Brexit? I just don't get what people see the benefits of it are, but I guess people who want to leave dont see the benefits of staying in.

And once you know what people want from Brexit, how do you choose which version to go for?

Of the 17.4 Million that voted to leave, if only 25% of them get the Brexit they want, that is 29 million people who voted not getting what they were hoping for. This is the problem with giving people 4 options to choose from, if you offered people No Deal, Mays Deal, Labour Deal or Remain. Remain would probably win, but it could end up with less votes than the three Leave options, but since that is how our FPP voting system works for electing MPs, maybe its not such a bad way of doing it?

This was the biggest problem with the referendum. If you voted remain, you knew what you were getting and the remain side could only sell what we already had. The leave side, you could make it up and promise what ever you want, and they did this, and it worked. The leave side also overspent on their campaigns and broke data protection laws in the process. Brits living abroad, who will be most affected could not take part in the vote, and those who will have to live with it the longest, 17 and under also could not vote.

It therefore makes sense to me, to hold a confirmatory vote once parliament agrees what ever Brexit it comes up with. It will then be a informed vote, with voters knowing very clearly what they will get if they agree that what ever deal parliament has come up with.

The petition to revoke Article 50 has nearly hit 6 million, if you have not signed it, go and get it signed here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 while the leave petition is struggling to get to 600,000.

The remain march through London attracted over 1 million people, while the leave march barely manages 100.

Both Labour and Conservatives are in favour of leaving the EU, and with it constantly being used to say 80% of those who voted in the last election voted in favour of leaving the EU, I can only hope that in the next general election, people who want to remain in the EU will not vote for those two parties. You already have the Lib Dems and Greens, and hopefully the Independent Party will offer a third choice for voters as well.

Not that I think a general election will solve anything.
 
delta79 said:
Too many people the voted leave after reading the side of a bus and believing it.
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That's a myth presented as fact by the "People Vote" campaign.

Aparantly I'm thick and didn't understand what I was voting for, strange because I knew exactly what I was voting for, and it had nothing to do with hysterical half-truths written down the side of a bus, and because of this we need another go according to them, so I can make my decision knowing all the facts this time - guess what? I wouldn't vote any different and I don't know anybody who did vote Leave that would.

As Rob said there should never have been a referendum in the first place, Dave should have acted like every other adult in the Country when taunted by an old class mate and ignored him or taken him to a dark room and beaten the shit out of him, he shouldn't have let the scraggy little man taunt him into what he did, but there was, and despite Parliment needing a 2/3rd majority on most things, Dave decided this would be a simple yes/no vote swayed by s single vote if needed because he was so delusional in his own beliefs he couldn't possible see more people wanted out than in, and the result was Leave, under his terms.

And that's all I'm going to say of this subject since the last person to find out how I voted reported me to the Police for a hate crime over it.
 
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Sauron97 said:
I did vote leave and have supported leaving since 2014, do believe the EU works for and is heavily lobbied by big business interests rather than its population, and that it is not democratic and cannot ever, ever be reformed.
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If we think the EU is bad for business interests, just wait until our American friends get to pick the carcass of the UK (and mostly the NHS)... All while the likes of Rees-Mogg swan off with £7million in the pocket due to their own business interests...

The thing about it is at the end, we as a country had a say, yet the way it's going we'll remain in the group but with zero say... What is the point in that?

None of the parties have covered themselves in any glory in this; though it is funny to see May being denied by the thing keeping her in charge (DUP)...
 
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