The Brexit Thread

[Dave]

Maybe, just maybe, discouraging tourism in all directions will be the saviour of the planet long term.
We have just had the second hottest year ever, without a "real" summer.
Also one of the wettest years ever, with crisis conditions for all our farmers.
Holidays aren't essential, they are the icing on a cake that is being very, very overcooked...
And nobody seems willing to help turn the oven off.
Selfish desires, burn like fire.

Valid argument for air travel but a 60 minute ferry crossing is the more environmentally friendly method of travel.

Stopping all tourism isn’t going to happen, I would rather we find solutions to the environmental impact than make travel a preserve of the wealthy.

 

[rob666]

Travel is already the preserve of the wealthy.
And if it was only a single trip abroad in a year the argument would remain valid...
Repeated foreign travel by a tiny percentage of the global population is the real issue.
Nothing personal to anyone, but we really should be breaking routines.

Eight named storms in a single season...people being stopped from living their normal lives because of sudden climate change, unbearable conditions for people around the tropics, and poor bloody gardeners who haven't had a single dry week in six months to get their work done.
Mowing swamps in winter, instead of lawns in autumn, is here and now for me.
Long distance tourism should be limited through fair taxation on all carbon based fuels...but we won't go down and round in that circle again.

 

[GaryH]

Travel is already the preserve of the wealthy.

Erm…. Ryanair

Hardly the preserve of the wealthy!

 

[rob666]

The poor can't afford even ryanair and easyjet prices.
Not the preserve of the poor.
But yes, if aviation fuel was appropriately taxed there would be no £30 flights.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Repeated foreign travel by a tiny percentage of the global population is the real issue.

I've only got data for 2019, but it backs you up.

12% of people flying took 66% of the flights in the US.
2% of people flying took over 50% of flights in France.
In India 1% of people took 45% of flights.
In England, 10% of people flying took more than 50% of international flights.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...aviation-climate-damage-flights-environmental

Erm…. Ryanair

Hardly the preserve of the wealthy!

Ryanair isn't the preserve of the wealthy, but it is the preserve of the comfortably off and middle classes. The flights may be cheap, but then you've got travel to the departing airport, travel from the arrival airport to your destination, accomodation fees, living costs whilst you're out there, insurance, passport and visa fees. The majority of households in this country will not have a holiday abroad this year, or the next, and it's entirely down to affordability.

Anecdotally you may know a lot of people who are going abroad, so it may seem as though everyone can afford it, but the reality and numbers don't bear out this fiction I'm afraid.

 

[rob666]

The travel guy on R4 in the middle of the night recently summed it up nicely.
More than 50% of the British population are planning a foreign holiday this year.
Just over 30% can afford the holiday without resorting to credit.

 

[GaryH]

Just getting back on topic and away from holidays which no doubt we could talk about for ages - I went to Vienna in November and had no issues with passport checks both in Vienna or Heathrow airports. Yes there was a longer queue in Vienna compared to the Euro automatic gates but most we waited was 25 mins due to the number of desks they had open.

Maybe it depends on which country you visit, and let’s be honest, the French are notorious for causing delays wherever possible.

 

[rob666]

Yup, last weeks delays were caused by another french revolution, this weeks long delays are caused by severe flooding and gales, probably caused by...climate change.
Of course Blair did suggest to our European brothers and sisters that aviation fuel really should be taxed in a similar manner to road fuel, but they have been thinking about it ever since.
You think they would have worked it out a few decades later, but they are still busy thinking about it.

 

[Dave]

Just getting back on topic and away from holidays which no doubt we could talk about for ages - I went to Vienna in November and had no issues with passport checks both in Vienna or Heathrow airports. Yes there was a longer queue in Vienna compared to the Euro automatic gates but most we waited was 25 mins due to the number of desks they had open.

Maybe it depends on which country you visit, and let’s be honest, the French are notorious for causing delays wherever possible.

There are always peaks in border controls, I have made it through US customs in 10 minutes once but the other three times I waiting 1-2hrs.

There is no getting around the fact it’s far more hassle getting through border checks since Brexit. It’s not in my top 10 biggest issues with Brexit (constantly dealing with drug shortages at work is my number 1) but it’s still a fact.

 

[BigT]

There’s no difference coming back into the UK than before Brexit.
The only difference going into the EU is you get your passport stamped, we weren’t in the Schengen zone before so you still had to go through passport control.

 

[Dave]

There’s no difference coming back into the UK than before Brexit.
The only difference going into the EU is you get your passport stamped, we weren’t in the Schengen zone before so you still had to go through passport control.

You could use EU eGates and EU member lanes when a part of the EU, which invariably where much faster routes as the customs official did not need to check how long you had spent in the EU in the last 6 months due to freedom of movement.

Schengen is not related to the movement of EU citizens, it just allowed multiple EU countries to share border processing so say an America. Citizen could enter in 1 Schengen country and move around the others without presenting their passport again, whereas when we were in the EU they would have to do so at the UK border.

 

[BigT]

You can still use the e gates at a lot of EU airports, they have a stamp booth after.
I know how Schengen works, I was in different EU countries for around 100 days last year.
On the whole it’s made minimal difference from before Brexit when travelling to the EU, there were delays at channel ports before when the French workers decided a protest was in order.
Importing goods? Now that’s a different story.

 

[Dave]

You can still use the e gates at a lot of EU airports, they have a stamp booth after.
I know how Schengen works, I was in different EU countries for around 100 days last year.
On the whole it’s made minimal difference from before Brexit when travelling to the EU, there were delays at channel ports before when the French workers decided a protest was in order.
Importing goods? Now that’s a different story.

Well why where you conflating the two?

I have seen a marked increase in wait times since Brexit and it’s likely to get worse once ETA is implemented as they will be doing fingerprints. But as I say cross border travel isn’t in my top 10 reasons why Brexit is stupid list.

 

[BigT]

It should actually get better once the ETA is introduced as you won’t need your passport stamping any longer as the Schengen zone computer system will finally be able to work it out.
I wouldn’t hold my breath it happens anytime soon though, the EU has a long history of these things taking years and years and it has already been delayed many times.
We do agree though, it’s not in my top ten either.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

It should actually get better once the ETA is introduced as you won’t need your passport stamping any longer as the Schengen zone computer system will finally be able to work it out.
I wouldn’t hold my breath it happens anytime soon though, the EU has a long history of these things taking years and years and it has already been delayed many times.
We do agree though, it’s not in my top ten either.

You will still have to have your passport stamped with ETIAS, in much the same way as you will still have your passport stamped when entering the US with ESTA.

ESTA has not made entering the US a breeze for UK citizens, there's still a long border wait, the same will be the case with ETIAS upon implementation.

 

[BigT]

You will still have to have your passport stamped with ETIAS, in much the same way as you will still have your passport stamped when entering the US with ESTA.

ESTA has not made entering the US a breeze for UK citizens, there's still a long border wait, the same will be the case with ETIAS upon implementation.

General information

The Entry/Exit System (EES) is an automated IT system for registering non-EU nationals each time they cross an EU external border. This is done regardless of whether or not they need a short-stay visa. Refusals of entry are also recorded in the system.

travel-europe.europa.eu

EES will replace passport stamping, it will work alongside ETIAS.

 

[GaryH]

Perhaps better passport checks across the UK and EU isn’t a bad thing in the current world climate.

 

[AstroDan]

I also waited 1 hour at the Hook of Holland for passports - so it's not just the French.

The French border staff weren't dragging their heels. The fact is, to scan entry/exit stamps takes longer. It took approx. 30-45 seconds for me. 4 in a car, that's 2- 3 minutes per car. A ferry can hold 700 cars.

Ports are definitely worse affected than airports. If these checks are necessary, then infrastructure must be improved to cope.

Also, there was also a queue at the UK border (around 80 for EU exit and 45 for UK entry).

 

[BigT]

Ferry ports were always worse, I’ve been going to Lemans 24 hour every year for god knows how many years and there really isn’t much difference between now or before Brexit, okay I use Portsmouth not Dover so maybe there is a difference there.

It also depends how you hit it, first off the boat and your through fairly quick, last off then you are waiting a good hour or so.

 

[AstroDan]

Ferry ports were always worse, I’ve been going to Lemans 24 hour every year for god knows how many years and there really isn’t much difference between now or before Brexit, okay I use Portsmouth not Dover so maybe there is a difference there.

It also depends how you hit it, first off the boat and your through fairly quick, last off then you are waiting a good hour or so.

I can't let you get away with this, sorry. How can you say there isn't much difference post-Brexit?

There's huge difference. The UK is now a third country and the EU's external border dictates that passports must be stamped and checked on every entry and exit. Before Brexit they literally didn't care due to free movement. UK border there's less difference as we always had Schengen exemption.

I've been going to France three times a year my entire life. I've lived there. My parents live there.

Never has this been such a regular problem.

150 minutes pal. 150.