The Brexit Thread

Discussion in 'Corner Coffee' started by Matt N, 27th Mar 2019.

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  1. D4n

    D4n TowersStreet Member

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    @rob666 with literally the best justification for Brexit I have ever read right there.

    I still disagree as to its overall benefit, but a worthwhile argument in fairness.

    Better justification than any of the politicians supporting Brexit ever came out with, literally.
     
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  2. Plastic Person

    Plastic Person TowersStreet Member

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    Good point, just our own to deal with now.

    Echoing the sentiments of @D4n, that's a very strong post featuring better arguments than many of those who lobbied for this in the first place. Nonetheless, I just don't trust the current government not to exploit the situation. I am glad, and sad, to be living in Europe right now and for the foreseeable. Mainly for the coasters, but not entirely.
     
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  3. rob666

    rob666 TowersStreet Member

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    I have no worries about the idiot right wing in this country, they aren't electable.
    Boris excluded of course...
    The post communist beasts in the east are the ones I fear.
     
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  4. AstroDan

    AstroDan TS Forum Team Team Member

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    Good to read your views, Rob. Force feeding the environmental cause is certainly good for the planet. And the CAP, whilst well intentioned, does indeed have setbacks and has caused a lot of controversy, particularly in the UK. I don't think anyone would ever proclaim that everything the EU did was good, or right. I just think on balance... you know.

    I worry how the typically right-leaning England, who tend to favour Tory governments, will come out of it, though. We may have unelectable extremes in this country, which is a good thing, but I don't quite see how the Tories will improve the picture here. And it certainly is questionable for the future of the United Kingdom's makeup.
     
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  5. rob666

    rob666 TowersStreet Member

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    I blame Blair...his massive shift in Labour policy did more damage to the left wing cause after Thatcher than anything.
    The stomping on the radical left was fine, but he basically accepted the status quo of Thatchers legacy.
    He could have renationalised basic infrastructure in industry to a degree, and raised taxation to restore a degree of equality.
    He did neither, he was a Tory in red, and the nation shifted to the right.
     
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  6. AstroDan

    AstroDan TS Forum Team Team Member

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    If there was one thing lost over Brexit that you could have, what would it be?

    For me? Movement.

    As someone who did a French degree, spent an Erasmus year in Strasbourg where I studied in 2004 and 2005 (and where I discovered Europa-Park for the first time) and whose parents retired to France - free movement is a tragic loss for our people's freedoms and choices. Life is simply less rich without it.

    It gets me quite upset when you start thinking about it.

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: 14th Jan 2021
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  7. rob666

    rob666 TowersStreet Member

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    You still have free movement, tis only Covid stopping it at the moment.
    Three months in every six isn't it?
    Foreign holidays were all the rage before we joined the EU you know...
     
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  8. AstroDan

    AstroDan TS Forum Team Team Member

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    That isn't free movement.

    I am talking about the ability to freely live, work and study in Europe. 90 out of 180 days is not that. Until December 31st, we had 365/365 rights.

    My parents, for example, have had to go through very long, costly and challenging residency processes in order to be able to live in their house in Central France, which they worked all their life to be able to afford and buy in 2007. Many have not been able to do that.

    I am well aware you can still go on holiday! I am not an idiot.
     
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  9. rob666

    rob666 TowersStreet Member

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    I didn't accuse anyone of being an idiot.
    If you had been a little more clear about the loss of employment rights, instead of simply "movement", I would have understood your point.
    Time to go back to read only on this topic...
     
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  10. AstroDan

    AstroDan TS Forum Team Team Member

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    Forgive me reading your "Foreign holidays were all the rage before we joined the EU you know..." post as a light touch of flagrant sarcasm. If it wasn't intended as such, I apologise. I was quite keen to read your earlier posts, and, fundamentally it's good that this isn't an echo chamber.

    It would have been nice to see folk actually respond to the initial query made: If there was one thing lost over Brexit that you could have, what would it be?

    I must insist, though, that your statement that "you still have free movement" is just not the case.
     
    Last edited: 14th Jan 2021
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  11. pluk

    pluk TowersStreet Member

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    The other side of the same coin is why should I be able to spend all my life paying into one countries economy and then go and be a financial burden on another country when I chose to? The freedom of residence to me should be a privilege based on a mutually beneficial arrangement to both the resident and the state rather than an all encompassing right.

    It seems fashionable to only acknowledge the benefits of EU migration to the UK, of which there are many, but ignore the negative sides which are also not insignificant. While there have always been possible mechanisms under EU rules to control EU migration, successive UK governments have failed to act on these while openly admitting that huge mistakes had been made when borders were opened up and the numbers who would come here were woefully underestimated. It's easy to understand how Brexit came to be, how voters saw it as an opportunity to make a change, if you view the world from those living in areas that have been so rapidly transformed by a huge influx of largely unskilled and frequently out of work Europeans.
     
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  12. AstroDan

    AstroDan TS Forum Team Team Member

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    I am quite sure some of those points to have value, pluk. I am not naive to the fact that there are elements to migration policy within the EU over the years that have caused resentment and conflict within communities. However, I can only speak based on my own first hand experiences of life. Selfishly/Thankfully/Luckily - however you want to call it, I have not found myself affected by the issues which you raised and can only speak from the international experiences of my childhood and student life. Blessed, probably.

    I should also add, seen as you raised the issue of migrants becoming a burden on a country, that my own parents are not a financial burden on France. They receive a full pension from the UK, pay habitation taxes and other associated taxes in France and are fully linked up with the local French community. For every migrant who may become a burden, I am quite confident there is at least one that is not - probably more than one. Possibly many more than one.

    I should add that I think the British tabloids have fuelled the migrant debate quite heavily, thus fuelling a general xenophobia within society.

    Either way, now we're out, there's no excuse anymore and our ills can only be blamed on ourselves. Makes it easier, I guess.
     
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  13. GaryH

    GaryH TowersStreet Member

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    I have to be honest at the moment I don’t miss anything about not being in the EU. Not yet anyway.
     
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  14. Alsty

    Alsty TowersStreet Member

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    Can I ask the opposite then... what has improved for you since we left the transition period?
     
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  15. Connor98

    Connor98 TowersStreet Member

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    This is my first post in this thread, I’ve kept quiet due to the same reasons @rob666 listed on the previous page. But how I view it, you’ve hit the nail on the head there, Rob. Although I’m still in the minority on here, at least someone has the same opinions as myself :D
     
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  16. GaryH

    GaryH TowersStreet Member

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    People in the U.K. have started getting the Covid vaccinations way before anyone in the EU has and we are doing a lot more than EU countries at the moment thanks to not having to wait for EU approval at the start.
     
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  17. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    That is what ministers want you to believe, but it is simply not completely true. Quote from this BBC article last month:

    "Under European law a vaccine must be authorised by the EMA, but individual countries can use an emergency procedure that allows them to distribute a vaccine for temporary use in their domestic market."

    We were still subject to those EU laws during the transition period, yet we approved and distributed the vaccine.
     
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  18. Connor98

    Connor98 TowersStreet Member

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    So does anyone know the reason why the EU countries are lagging behind us in Vaccinations administered, or even why it’s taken them so long to approve them if it has no relation to EU law?
     
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  19. Rob

    Rob TS Forum Team Team Member

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    I'm not sure, it's not something I have looked in to. But at a guess I assume it is because the vaccines were ordered by the EU and not individual countries, so they had to wait for EU authorisation. I'd imagine any individual country could have ordered their own vaccines individually but chose not to as they probably got a better deal by ordering in bulk for the entire bloc.
     
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  20. BarryZola

    BarryZola TowersStreet Member

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    I ordered 2 pairs of trainers online. One order got cancelled and the other one has been 'processing' for over a week. Both pairs should be coming from a warehouse in Europe from large household named companies. Feeling slightly inconvenienced here! I'll get over it though and probably just order from somewhere else.

    Not sure how much this is due to Brexit or could also be due to Covid restrictions/sickness/lockdowns etc.
     
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