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The Brexit Thread

Alsty said:
It was six years ago today that we got the results of the EU Referendum.

For prosperity, let's remind ourselves what the Leave.EU campaign said would happen after we left. How many of these things have come true? :)

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Wow, for all of those benefits pointed out, the opposite has happened for pretty much all of them. You couldn't make it up.

What a load of bollocks it was and always will be.
 
Rob said:
Yes, I'm a team member, I should know better than to double post. But just seen this and it's made me chuckle:



We really are clutching at straws now when it comes to the benefits of Brexit!
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Yep, they had to be a maximum of 25m apart. 25 yards is shorter (about 22m) so the signs could have been spaced 25yds apart if they wanted too. Would have meant more signs. And still “funny numbers” at some places as tunnels are often not round numbers of yards long, so at some point it would still be 198yds to nearest exit.
 
I've just watched a very interesting video with a very interesting take on the possibility of re-joining the EU but more importantly Labours plan for Brexit going into the next general election.

This video talks about:
  • Labours plan to realign with the EU's standards, the closer the better.
  • Financial services deal being made as quickly as possible.
  • Mutual movement and skills recognition.
  • A move towards much closer working relationship with the EU, but without explicity saying so
Of course this is just somebodies take on it but this person seems knowledgeable and it's very interesting to hear somebodies take. At least it's a clear policy from Labour, which will almost certainty boost growth significantly.
 
Steve Bray, who you might know better as the "Stop Brexit Man" , has had his audio equipment confiscated and has been reported for being too loud. This is now an offence under the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act.

What a democracy we live in... 🙄

www.lbc.co.uk

Police swoop to seize Stop Brexit Man’s speaker under new law banning 'noisy protests'

A large group of police surrounded well-known anti-Brexit activist 'Stop Brexit Man' and shut down a demonstration as new protest laws came into force.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
 
To be honest, if you're going to be that much of a nuisance on a regular basis that you're taking massive speakers and amps then I'm glad they've stopped him. You can protest without being an absolute bell-end. I know the angle is that they'll use this to stamp down on whatever they feel like they don't want, but in this case the guy is genuinely just being a nuisance because HE didn't get his own way in the referendum that happened years ago. What would it be like if every citizen who decided that they didn't like something that the government did went out on the streets with speakers and amps and started making loads of noise on a regular basis? It would be an awful country to live in.
 
You seem quite comfortable with the government eroding the right to protest. Personally I consider this to be a dangerous path of democratic backsliding.

Incidentally it looks like about twenty police were sent to Steve Bray today which seems somewhat disproportionate. Presumably there was no other crime in London today.
BarryZola said:
What would it be like if every citizen who decided that they didn't like something that the government did went out on the streets with speakers and amps and started making loads of noise on a regular basis?
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If the government are screwing up that much that people feel the need to do that then I don't see anything wrong with it. Would you rather they are silenced at the whim of the government instead?
 
Some protests in recent times have been on the edge of riots (tearing down statue's) however this bill is actually a disguise for what is a dreadful piece of legislation, it's concerning the amount of power it gives the government to prosecute over very stupid things (like the noise level at a protest). There needed to be legislation but not something like this, which I will say is perhaps one of the most dictatorial pieces of legislation to pass through the British parliament, it's shameful. Let's be clear though this is not the police's fault, they are doing there job to enforce the law, it doesn't matter whether they agree with it. I've seen lots of people blame police officers for arresting people at protests, the thing is if they aren't there people will moan and if they are there they are somehow doing the wrong thing.
 
I’m not an expert on the law, but I’m pretty sure there already are laws around vandalism, when it comes to damaging statues etc. There also are laws about obstructing roads etc. These new laws are a crack down on people’s civil liberties.

This is a government that ‘prorogued Parliament’. This is a government that’s talking about taking Britain out of the European Court of Human Rights. This is a government that’s just voted to break international law on the Northern Ireland Protocol. This is a government that cut back the National Audit Office. This is a government that wants to bring in photo ID to vote, which is likely to disenfranchise 2 million people – most of them poor. This is a government that wants to privatise Channel 4 – one of the UK’s biggest sources of investigative journalism. This is a government that has threatened to abolish the BBC, one of the other major sources of investigative journalism. This is a government that has made major cuts to education, and has disproportionately affected the schools in the poorest areas. This is a government that wants to bring in the right for businesses to use agency staff to break strikes. This is a government that has made major cuts to legal aid. This is a government that has talked about bringing in more censorship for comedians.

Calling people fascists can seem a bit extreme, but when you look at the bigger picture, these are people who want to undermine democracy.
 
Alsty said:
You seem quite comfortable with the government eroding the right to protest. Personally I consider this to be a dangerous path of democratic backsliding.

Incidentally it looks like about twenty police were sent to Steve Bray today which seems somewhat disproportionate. Presumably there was no other crime in London today.

If the government are screwing up that much that people feel the need to do that then I don't see anything wrong with it. Would you rather they are silenced at the whim of the government instead?
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You MUST be trolling me as you know I wasn't saying these things in my post. I actually pretty much said that there are ways of protesting without going to the levels of persistent loud nuisance that this guy was going to. How would you like it if you lived or worked near a building where people were turning up to protest regularly over many months/years and bringing speakers and amps and making a load of loud unpleasant noise whilst you were trying to go about your daily life? You know, had a tough day at work and you want to just want to relax and have a bit of peace and quiet? No luck, people outside with speakers shouting about whatever floats their boat that day. Work nights and need a bit of sleep once in a while? What if I turn up every day with speakers outside your house and shout about how I'm upset that my taxes have gone up even though I worked through the pandemic, because you happen to live near a government building? Think about it honestly. Treat it on a case by case basis. The Brexit protest guy is a k**b and needed dealing with. You must be able to see that. Great trolling though.
 
The guy had has his time making peaceful protest, but the time comes when he simply becomes an attention seeking pain in the bottom.
I have been on public protests, and several dozen marches, and have no problem with the right to protest, but there have to be reasonable limits.
Likewise morons blocking live motorways with their bodies...Why put the highways staff and police at great risk, block Whitehall or Trafalgar Square, where nobody is likely to be killed in the action.
I have a right to watch the news on tv, without some idiot screaming over the journalist trying to make a clear point, every day, for a number of years.
Allow him to shout without amplification, simple.
 
JAperson said:
Let's be clear though this is not the police's fault, they are doing there job to enforce the law, it doesn't matter whether they agree with it. I've seen lots of people blame police officers for arresting people at protests, the thing is if they aren't there people will moan and if they are there they are somehow doing the wrong thing.
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Considering the Met Police have currently been placed into "special measures" their behaviour in recent times hasn't exactly been great.

The stuff surrounding Sarah Everard in particular has shined a light on the behaviour of a number of officers. And the response to the vigil was disgraceful.

Wasn't the guy with the speakers stood outside Westminster Square? There's barely any work done in that area if the current government are anything to go by. But its a worry that (much like with our friends over the Atlantic) these are the first steps into eroding the rights of more than a select number of people.

That the PM can basically get a newspaper to erase a negative story about himself is a sorry state of affairs. And the tribalism/worship of particular political figures does nothing to help anyone.
 
I don’t really care as long as it stops these eco groups like extinction rebellion and insulate Britain from bringing the country to a standstill.
 
Benzin said:
Considering the Met Police have currently been placed into "special measures" their behaviour in recent times hasn't exactly been great.

The stuff surrounding Sarah Everard in particular has shined a light on the behaviour of a number of officers. And the response to the vigil was disgraceful.

Wasn't the guy with the speakers stood outside Westminster Square? There's barely any work done in that area if the current government are anything to go by. But its a worry that (much like with our friends over the Atlantic) these are the first steps into eroding the rights of more than a select number of people.

That the PM can basically get a newspaper to erase a negative story about himself is a sorry state of affairs. And the tribalism/worship of particular political figures does nothing to help anyone.
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Right because the actions of a few officers defines them all? Very stereotypical, the vast majority of police in this country are incredibly good at there job, as seen by the statistics compared to many other countries. The Met are currently having major problems which are shameful and I hope they get solved, however I'd still rather have the met over any American police force.
 
JAperson said:
Right because the actions of a few officers defines them all? Very stereotypical, the vast majority of police in this country are incredibly good at there job, as seen by the statistics compared to many other countries. The Met are currently having major problems which are shameful and I hope they get solved, however I'd still rather have the met over any American police force.
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Literally just limited it to a number of officers behaviour (specifically the Met who were heavily involved in the Sarah Everard case) in my own post but you've just done the thing you've accused me of by stating "any American police force".

I'm sure there's a handful of those who are actually good at their job too and would actually go in and stop a school shooting (or if I put my conspiracy hat on, act very suspicious after the incident, raising questions as to who shot who). But surely cannot tar them all with the same brush then as that's very stereotypical.

There are a lot of questions to be raised about the behaviour of a number of forces around the world. One of the main concerns with any situation is when one is found to be in the wrong and often the others close ranks to defend their colleagues, even in the face of evidence refuting it. That behaviour often means that whilst not every person in a particular group or sector are bad, by not standing up against such behaviours means complicit actions.

It's like if a friend stated something incredibly racist/homophobic/sexist and you said nothing to them. It helps no one.
 
An interesting YouGov poll was done recently on how well the British public thinks Brexit is going so far: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-latest-poll-uk-b2112060.html

The poll suggests that:
  • Among the overall British population, 16% think that Brexit is going well, 54% think that it is going badly, and 20% pass no overall judgement.
  • This is a sharp increase in the percentage who think Brexit is going badly; when the transition period ended in January 2021, this figure was less than 40%.
  • Among 2019 Conservative voters, 33% think that Brexit is going well, 28% think it is going badly, and 33% pass no overall judgement.
  • Among 2019 Labour and Liberal Democrat voters, 3% think that Brexit is going well, and over 70% think it is going badly.
  • Among those who voted Leave in the EU Referendum, 31% think that Brexit is going well and 31% think it is going badly, so those who voted for Brexit are split down the middle about it.
  • Among those who voted Remain in the EU Referendum, 6% think that it is going well, so there have been some who have been converted to Brexit since the referendum.
Personally, I think it’s possibly too early to cast much of a judgement on how well Brexit has gone for the UK. Yes, the economical and logistical situation in the UK (with the likes of the cost of living crisis, inflation, airport issues, rail strikes etc.) is hardly a bed of roses at present, but how much of that is down to Brexit and how much can be blamed on other factors, such as COVID and the Ukraine war? And even if Brexit does play a role in this, that could only be a little bit of short term pain; for all we know, Brexit could present some tangible long term opportunities for Britain as the years go on. And I say that as someone who always supported Remain when everything was still up in the air.

Don’t get me wrong, I would still vote Remain/Rejoin if there was an EU Referendum tomorrow, as I am a believer in us being closely aligned with our European neighbours, but I do think that it’s too early to declare Brexit a roaring success or a resounding flop yet. I don’t think we’ll be able to do that for a long time; personally, my view is that we should bide our time a little and see what opportunities being outside of the EU can present to us rather than being bitter when Brexit has not been a thing for very long at all. Look to the future rather than the past, as it were, and try and carve the best possible path out of what circumstances we’re dealing with.

Besides, I think the criteria for “success” from Brexit is incredibly open-ended, and very much depends on the person. It could be perceived as having been successful to one person and unsuccessful to another. The criteria of success for something like Brexit is just so, so open-ended, and there are so many ways you could define it.
 
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