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The Future of Towers Street and/or the Park Entrance

BarryZola said:
You could move coach parking to the car parks near Air. Then you'd have a lot more 'normal' parking space for guests near to the current entrance. I would imagine that a lot of people would choose to use the current entrance because they'd rather start their day over this side of the park, then you'd get another chunk of guests who would park over the Air side as they wanted to start their day near Nemesis etc. I don't like the idea of limiting who could access at either entrance. It would simply be a choice of where you wanted to park and start your day (until the slightly more limited parking at the current entrance side had filled up, then you may have to filter the remaining guests down to the Air car park).

That's how it works in my head anyway :)
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The issue with all this is the cost of building a proper entrance in FV would not be all that lower than refurbishing the monorail. As far as I am aware the track itself is structurally fine, so effectively what it needs is new rolling stock and control system. Is that really out of the realm of possibility?
 
Dave said:
The issue with all this is the cost of building a proper entrance in FV would not be all that lower than refurbishing the monorail. As far as I am aware the track itself is structurally fine, so effectively what it needs is new rolling stock and control system. Is that really out of the realm of possibility?
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I'm now actually starting to come around to this kind of view actually. Another issue with building a new entrance at FV is that it may involve some tree clearance which I doubt would be looked upon favourably.
 
Land trains were used in the 80s before the monorail was installed, they moved away from this because it wasn't really a suitable solution. You can see them in this throw back video from 1986, if you look closely you can even see the monorail station under construction in the background.


From: https://youtu.be/W7kxKSwogX0?si=1hNtOqZ-1Sk8LOJx&t=71


I am also of the opinion that the cost of designing, getting planning and constructing a new/additional entrance along with the associated infrastructure changes that would be needed around the park to deal with altered guest flow really can't be far off the cost of just investing in the monorail instead.

New air gates and a new control system with refurbished or new trains feels like the most suitable solution to me. It also retains the large selling point of the monorail in terms of that arrival experience that is over and above any other UK parks.
 
I generally like Towers Street, but I know it definitely needs substantial upgrade and improvements. With the layout heading towards the iconic Towers, the street could still become among the better park entrances, but currently feels short of that.

The street is looking tired, through ageing and neglected infrastructure. Not to mention a cheap building paint up a number of years ago. The monorail and security/ entrance plaza could also benefit from upgrades. Forbidden Valley could work as an additional entrance, but definitely not the main one. It just doesn’t work aesthetically or from an operational point.

I would like to see them do a massive overhaul to the street and area, which could take longer than a whole season and be done in stages.

Remove and replace the buildings with new roofing and Facades, gut out the shops/restaurants and rebuild them from scratch, maybe give it a majestic town feel. Rip out the paving, lighting, rebuild the fountains. Restore these with new charming features.

As for the monorail, a major programme upgrade and new airgates could work. But that’s a different project entirely I guess.
 
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AT86 said:
Land trains were used in the 80s before the monorail was installed, they moved away from this because it wasn't really a suitable solution. You can see them in this throw back video from 1986, if you look closely you can even see the monorail station under construction in the background.


From: https://youtu.be/W7kxKSwogX0?si=1hNtOqZ-1Sk8LOJx&t=71


I am also of the opinion that the cost of designing, getting planning and constructing a new/additional entrance along with the associated infrastructure changes that would be needed around the park to deal with altered guest flow really can't be far off the cost of just investing in the monorail instead.

New air gates and a new control system with refurbished or new trains feels like the most suitable solution to me. It also retains the large selling point of the monorail in terms of that arrival experience that is over and above any other UK parks.
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My gut says new control system and airgates is £1-2m. We’re not talking loads of capability or overly complicated system (assuming it’s keep a driver and the sensors etc are remaining)

You need something that can accommodate 4k plus an hour. The current monorail has 100 seats… that’s a big land train or a lot of them. A normal train would suit better.
 
I suspect the park don't really have a long term answer for all of these issues with transport, entrances etc, which is causing the stagnation of Towers Street. Its a small part if a big jigsaw with the viable life of the monorail at the centre, and they know spending money on it only makes sense if it is going to be viable in the long run as an entrance.

It is certainly true that it is currently a pass through area for the start and end of the day, making it less viable as a location for larger scale catering that it seems shkuld be there. The answer would obviously be to give visitors a reason to go to this area with some form of entertainment, be that ride or show. Noise might be an issue but buildings clearly aren't. Flying theatre?
 
Ash said:
My gut says new control system and airgates is £1-2m. We’re not talking loads of capability or overly complicated system (assuming it’s keep a driver and the sensors etc are remaining)
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I don't think it is a control system and air gates upgrade that's needed. I believe that the rolling stock is redundant, so that needs replaced. If you want to replace the rolling stock, you will want generic stock that is supported with easily available spares. If you want this you will likely need new track, new stations and need new sidings. So your 'gut £1-2m' for a sticking plaster, will likely be £20-40m for something sustainable and future proof for a bare bones monorail, or £40m+ if you want an automated higher capacity system. Full passenger systems (which AT would be silly to go for) cost over $100m per/ km

I think monorail build costs are ridiculous which is why I am against the replacement of the system. But if they are going to invest in it - they need to do it properly and not just attempt to extend the life by a few months at a time.

Costs derived from https://www.monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html with added inflation.
 
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ScottishChris said:
I don't think it is a control system and air gates upgrade that's needed. I believe that the rolling stock is redundant, so that needs replaced. If you want to replace the rolling stock, you will want generic stock that is supported with easily available spares. If you want this you will likely need new track, new stations and need new sidings. So your 'gut £1-2m' for a sticking plaster, will likely be £20-40m for something sustainable and future proof for a bare bones monorail, or £40m+ if you want an automated higher capacity system. Full passenger systems (which AT would be silly to go for) cost over $100m per/ km

I think monorail build costs are ridiculous which is why I am against the replacement of the system. But if they are going to invest in it - they need to do it properly and not just attempt to extend the life by a few months at a time.

Costs derived from https://www.monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html with added inflation.
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I mean, when the monorail does reach the end of its service life, I am wondering, with the carriages the monorail uses being from an old expo (Can't remember which one) and to that effect custom-built. If they simply wanted to use modern carriages for the monorail system it'd be quite expensive.

As AT/Merlin would need to in essence have the track ripped out and replaced with a modern/average track as unless AT/Merlin retrofit new carriages to work on the pre-existing rail system, they'd simply be kicking the can down the road on when they'd do a total renovation of the transport's rails and other infrastructure relating to the monorail.
 
EarthlyKnight27 said:
I mean, when the monorail does reach the end of its service life, I am wondering, with the carriages the monorail uses being from an old expo (Can't remember which one) and to that effect custom-built. If they simply wanted to use modern carriages for the monorail system it'd be quite expensive.
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It uses standard Von Roll rolling stock, identical to EP Express
 
ScottishChris said:
I don't think it is a control system and air gates upgrade that's needed. I believe that the rolling stock is redundant, so that needs replaced. If you want to replace the rolling stock, you will want generic stock that is supported with easily available spares. If you want this you will likely need new track, new stations and need new sidings. So your 'gut £1-2m' for a sticking plaster, will likely be £20-40m for something sustainable and future proof for a bare bones monorail, or £40m+ if you want an automated higher capacity system. Full passenger systems (which AT would be silly to go for) cost over $100m per/ km

I think monorail build costs are ridiculous which is why I am against the replacement of the system. But if they are going to invest in it - they need to do it properly and not just attempt to extend the life by a few months at a time.

Costs derived from https://www.monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html with added inflation.
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Monorails are not exactly common so I doubt you get much benefit from economies of scale by asking one of the main train companies to create something.

If I was Merlin I would speak to Mack and see if they can do something. They have a von-roll monorail at EP and are looking to build another monorail so they might be keen to share some R&D costs. The track is structurally sound and metal track can be replaced incrementally as it ages anyway.
 
The place is called Alton Towers. The main entrance is designed on the fringes to give a central view of Alton Towers. The whole park is designed around this set-up. You walk down a small street, with a view of the Tower's at the end of the front lawn, and crowds are distributed left of right from here like a reverse funnel. Disney parks are designed like the spokes of a wheel where crowds are distributed around via a central plaza. Europa is hour glassed shaped so the crowds move forward through the park, with hotel guests moving through from the back. Alton is more fork shaped, and the handle of the fork, if you like, is Towers Street. You can have secondary entrances of course like we currently have with the Galactica gate, but a main entrance anywhere else other than where it currently is makes no sense.

From a crowd and aesthetic design perspective, Towers Street is perfect as an entrance. The problem lies in the geography. The car parks and hotels have to be where they are so that then creates the problem of how to get to the otherwise ideally situated entrance. They can't persue a Phantasialand style multiple entrance strategy as there's very little point in letting guests enter via the other fork prongs, which they would need to do to distribute crowds effectively, as there's not really any way of getting guests from their cars or hotels to X Sector or Walliams world. So that then pushes the problem back to the monorail, which is fast becoming unfit for purpose in its old age.

I don't think the solution has been thought through at all and it is another sign of how a lack of long term planning and investment is now coming back to haunt the park. We've already discussed the infeasibility of land based options of getting guests to the entrance without major investment. We know that upgrading the monorail itself is also extremely costly. You could have all the shiny new expensive coasters, flats and dark rides you like, but that's no good if you can't get guests into the park in the first place so they'll have to bite the bullet at some point and do something. The dull, tiring and uninspiring walk to the park already suffers from congestion on even moderate crowd days, and that's with hotel guests entering via Galactica and the monorail still running.

The situation is unsustainable long term and I can't see an entrance move being at all realistic. An entrance move itself would also be extremely expensive and require significant remodeling. The only way out is significant infrastructure investment I'm afraid. I don't expect it to happen any time soon though as they don't have the cash. I imagine we'll continue to see sticking plasters for the short and medium term until the business is sold on again.
 
They can reuse the D&G bus they’re using for winter currently…



Second to Disney…

Maybe in the future if the railway ever gets expanded from Froghall they could use Coaster Corner as a second entrance
 
Poisson said:
Have you seen the topography? It'd have to have a cable car to service it
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You mean the one they used for a century? As a coach entrance? And with wagons and horses?

That entrance…

There’s an internal road that runs to it from behind the flag tower.
 
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