The Great Squeeze: Cost of Living Crisis 2022

BarryZola

TS Member
The worst thing is that rubbish that's going around on FB etc telling people to put in complaints against their energy company to cost them money and tie them up in time-consuming nonsense. OK, so lets assume that people do this and the middle-men (or women) companies go out of business due to this foolishness (it won't be BP and Shell by the way, they're way up the ladder). It'll just lead to fewer middle-men energy suppliers which will lead to more of a monopoly. Seems a bit stupid to me.
 
I think the Government need to force theses garages to drop there prices. I wasn’t paying much attention to the petrol prices to last week to we popped to Costco and they were charging £1.55 a litre for petrol and £1.65 for Diesel.
I’m lucky that my mortgage is fixed to 2029 and cause I brought during the credit crunch/recession of 2008 to 2010 I only pay £363 a month but even then with bills, food and petrol our basic monthly out going is now roughly £1600.
Then we had 2 uk breaks to pay for which will be both fully paid by tomorrow which my OT pay has paid for.
The Drayton Manor annual passes have really saved us money.
 

DistortAMG

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Pirates of the Caribbean (DLP)
I don’t get this greed argument like these companies are owned by some big grey suit.
You know how public companies work right? They are owned by the likes of me and you through shares or pension schemes.

The very nature of a publicly owned company means that the CEO's are essentially under extreme pressure to delivery consistent and sometimes increasing returns for investors like me and you. If they do not, they will be replaced by someone who can. That is pretty much the essence of pretty much all publicly owned companies. If anything, publicly owned companies are more greedy due to the above mentioned. Merlin is a classic case. They milked that cow dry due to having to consistently deliver results for shareholders, shareholders including pension and hedge funds.

The whole reason why the majority of people invest in a company in the first place, is to make money, to get a return on their investment. Companies deliver this by being greedy and making as much money as they can.

The fact they are owned by me and you makes no difference, well it does, because you expect to make money on your investment right? You do not expect that with a private company as you will not own shares in it. Even so, "ownership" in this case is a somewhat mute point, as you get practically no say in the running, direction or strategy of the company. Just an expectation to make money.
 
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AstroDan

TS Team
Favourite Ride
Steel Vengeance, Cedar Point
Fuel prices in the UK are scandalous.

Dreading coming home from France/Germany Road Trip later.

We're paying about €1.70 a litre here. Around £1.40.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk
 

BigT

TS Member
The very nature of a publicly owned company means that the CEO's are essentially under extreme pressure to delivery consistent and sometimes increasing returns for investors like me and you. If they do not, they will be replaced by someone who can. That is pretty much the essence of pretty much all publicly owned companies. If anything, publicly owned companies are more greedy due to the above mentioned. Merlin is a classic case. They milked that cow dry due to having to consistently deliver results for shareholders, shareholders including pension and hedge funds.

The whole reason why the majority of people invest in a company in the first place, is to make money, to get a return on their investment. Companies deliver this by being greedy and making as much money as they can.

The fact they are owned by me and you makes no difference, well it does, because you expect to make money on your investment right? You do not expect that with a private company as you will not own shares in it. Even so, "ownership" in this case is a somewhat mute point, as you get practically no say in the running, direction or strategy of the company. Just an expectation to make money.
CEO’s are obligated to do what is best for the shareholders return on investment, that doesn’t always include maximising profit in the short term but driving the share price upwards long term is the aim.
Anyone can share in these huge profits, just buy shares in the company, it’s very easy if you look how but of course it’s just easier to moan about these companies making huge profits and saying they should be nationalised at huge cost to the taxpayers.
 

JAperson

TS Member
CEO’s are obligated to do what is best for the shareholders return on investment, that doesn’t always include maximising profit in the short term but driving the share price upwards long term is the aim.
Anyone can share in these huge profits, just buy shares in the company, it’s very easy if you look how but of course it’s just easier to moan about these companies making huge profits and saying they should be nationalised at huge cost to the taxpayers.
Yes but the people who are going to struggle most can't afford to 'just buy shares' it's not that simple. It's only the better off who can afford to buy shares in these companies. I'm happy with energy companies making the normal profit however it is completely wrong that they are making more profit while allowing people to either starve or freeze, it's dreadful that it's allowed.
 

rob666

TS Member
Jeez.
Massive numbers of people can't afford food for their kids in the holidays, increasing mortgage and rent rates, and tripling energy costs.
But hey, any spare cash after that...invest it in stocks and shares, you will beat inflation in the long run.
Only those already rich can afford to buy stocks and shares.
It is very easy if you have any disposable income at all.
If you see Sid, tell him...where to go.
 

DistortAMG

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Pirates of the Caribbean (DLP)
CEO’s are obligated to do what is best for the shareholders return on investment, that doesn’t always include maximising profit in the short term but driving the share price upwards long term is the aim.
Anyone can share in these huge profits, just buy shares in the company, it’s very easy if you look how but of course it’s just easier to moan about these companies making huge profits and saying they should be nationalised at huge cost to the taxpayers.

Even so, there is an element of greed involved by any company to drive a share price up short term or long. Greed is a pillar of capitalism after all, the system is designed in a way to feed the desires of greed.

Who is going to pay for these shares for people? Right now people cannot even afford to heat their homes and feed their family's. So how do you expect them to buy shares when they clearly have zero disposable income?? People have every right to moan when these companies are posting record profits, no matter how the money is distributed afterwards!

Besides, the majority of the money is not distributed to the 'little man'. Most of it goes to the majority share holders, aka the already super rich, they will be the ones who really benefit, the people and companies who hold the large stakes in said company as they hold a bigger piece of the pie.
 

BigT

TS Member
It’s not true only the rich own shares, with interest rates at an all time low for the last 15 years a lot of working class have also switched their investments to shares.
Own an ISA? Chances are it’s invested in shares, own a private pension? (Which you do if your employed) it’s invested in shares, Its completely false to assume majority of shares in energy companies are owned by the super rich, they aren’t, most are owned by working people whether they know it or not.
 

JAperson

TS Member
It’s not true only the rich own shares, with interest rates at an all time low for the last 15 years a lot of working class have also switched their investments to shares.
Own an ISA? Chances are it’s invested in shares, own a private pension? (Which you do if your employed) it’s invested in shares, Its completely false to assume majority of shares in energy companies are owned by the super rich, they aren’t, most are owned by working people whether they know it or not.
This may be true but people at the moment can't afford to put any money away. It's going on there big bills that they can't afford while the money they are paying is going mainly to a bunch of billionaires and the odd working class person. People are going to have to choose between heating and eating, they haven't even got a quid to stick in BP PLC..
 

BigT

TS Member
I think you are missing the point, if you work in any job you have a pension, that’s the law.
Where does this money you are paying in (before you even get a sniff at it) get invested? The stock market, so even if you think you don’t own shares in BP chances are your pension pot does.

Edit: sorry for the edit but didn’t want double post.
It’s also worth pointing out that in the UK this huge number of billionaires adds up to a grand total of 177 out of 65 million people.
 
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JAperson

TS Member
I think you are missing the point, if you work in any job you have a pension, that’s the law.
Where does this money you are paying in (before you even get a sniff at it) get invested? The stock market, so even if you think you don’t own shares in BP chances are your pension pot does.
Yes but that doesn't make any difference right now to people who are struggling to pay there bills does it? Take a small amount of profit of these companies and use it immediately to stop being starving or freezing.
 

BigT

TS Member
Yes but that doesn't make any difference right now to people who are struggling to pay there bills does it? Take a small amount of profit of these companies and use it immediately to stop being starving or freezing.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment a small amount of the profit is not going to touch the surface of the amount it would cost to hold prices at even where they are now.
To do that will need extra government borrowing against an already shocking government balance sheet.
 

JAperson

TS Member
Whilst I agree with the sentiment a small amount of the profit is not going to touch the surface of the amount it would cost to hold prices at even where they are now.
To do that will need extra government borrowing against an already shocking government balance sheet.
I'm afraid that's been shown to likely be untrue. A correctly implemented windfall tax would raise enough money to help a significant proportion of the population.
 

DistortAMG

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Pirates of the Caribbean (DLP)
I think you are missing the point, if you work in any job you have a pension, that’s the law.
Where does this money you are paying in (before you even get a sniff at it) get invested? The stock market, so even if you think you don’t own shares in BP chances are your pension pot does.

Edit: sorry for the edit but didn’t want double post.
It’s also worth pointing out that in the UK this huge number of billionaires adds up to a grand total of 177 out of 65 million people.

You said it yourself, the pension pot owns the shares, not you the individual. As a result you see non of the profits either.
 
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DistortAMG

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Pirates of the Caribbean (DLP)
I mean the pension pot as a whole, like a hedge fund. Do you really own it though really? There seems to be very strict rules in place for something you own? What if I want to cash MY cash out the pot now, changed my mind about the pension, not a chance.

Being denied the money I own that I have legally earnt, when I want it, does not sound like something I own. Further more, many pension fund managers and whatnot earn big massive bonus' from our money, we rarely see any of it, again, supporting the idea we do not own it. It is all smoke and mirrors.

You cash out what you pay in. Yes you can invest the pension and earn more, some of the time, very strict rules on this though and not always the case. Most people will not be earning extra money. They will be getting out what they put in, if they are lucky. Some of these pension companies seem very reluctant and take a very long time to make payments to people, for their own money!

It is also worth pointing out that those 177 people you seem quick to try and downplay, have a higher combined wealth than the other 64 million people, let that sink in a second. That is the problem. That is also just the finances we know about, dismissing the inevitable massive array and web of tax havens and off shore accounts these 177 people undoubtedly have.

This is a problem worldwide, with the top 1% owning over something stupid like 95% of the worlds wealth.
 
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BigT

TS Member
I mean the pension pot as a whole, like a hedge fund. Do you really own it though really? There seems to be very strict rules in place for something you own? What if I want to cash MY cash out the pot now, changed my mind about the pension, not a chance.

Being denied the money I own that I have legally earnt, when I want it, does not sound like something I own. Further more, many pension fund managers and whatnot earn big massive bonus' from our money, we rarely see any of it, again, supporting the idea we do not own it. It is all smoke and mirrors.

You cash out what you pay in. Yes you can invest the pension and earn more, some of the time, very strict rules on this though and not always the case. Most people will not be earning extra money. They will be getting out what they put in, if they are lucky. Some of these pension companies seem very reluctant and take a very long time to make payments to people, for their own money!

It is also work pointing out that those 177 people you seem quick to try and downplay, have a higher combined wealth of the other 64 million people, let that sink in a second. That is the problem. That is also just the finances we know about, dismissing the investable massive array and web of tax havens and off shore accounts these 177 people undoubtedly have.

This is a problem worldwide, with the top 1% owning over something stupid like 95% of the worlds wealth.
I think your maths is a little out, if you divide £650 billion (approx total of the 177) by the population of approx 65 million you get £10k each so you are not correct they have a total higher wealth than the rest put together.

Globally your possibly correct in the 1% part but not in the UK.

Percentile pointWealth to qualifyPercentage of total wealth owned
by people at and above this level
Top 1%£688,22821% of total UK wealth
2%£460,17928% of total UK wealth
5%£270,16440% of total UK wealth
10%£176,22153% of total UK wealth
25%£76,09872% of total UK wealth
50%£35,80793% of total UK wealth

Edit: the data above is slightly out of date but percentage wise it’s roughly the same as the latest data.

 
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DistortAMG

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Pirates of the Caribbean (DLP)
I think your maths is a little out, if you divide £650 billion (approx total of the 177) by the population of approx 65 million you get £10k each so you are not correct they have a total higher wealth than the rest put together.

Globally your possibly correct in the 1% part but not in the UK.

Percentile pointWealth to qualifyPercentage of total wealth owned
by people at and above this level
Top 1%£688,22821% of total UK wealth
2%£460,17928% of total UK wealth
5%£270,16440% of total UK wealth
10%£176,22153% of total UK wealth
25%£76,09872% of total UK wealth
50%£35,80793% of total UK wealth


Ok fair enough, but this still supports what I was trying to say.

Even if 65 million people had just 10K and the other 117 had another £650 billion, is a massively shocking amount of inequality.

The fact it is more, supports even harder, what myself and others were trying to say.
 
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