BarryZola
TS Member
I honestly don't know enough about each condition to be able to comment conclusively. I firmly believe that some people are 'Swinging the Lead' using the various umbrellas though.
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The Merlin VIP Annual Pass
I honestly don't know enough about each condition to be able to comment conclusively. I firmly believe that some people are 'Swinging the Lead' using the various umbrellas though.
imanautie
TS Member
Well I'm not. Its kind of hard to explain why being stuck in a queue is as stressful as it is (with me there presence of large crowds isn't pleasant) , but that doesn't mean you need to make out like it's not a problem.
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BarryZola
TS Member
I'm not making out that it's not a problem at all. Far from it. I think standing in a thoroughly boring queue is a problem for everyone, a thoroughly unpleasant problem. I hate it. People all around me breathing and getting close to me and everything. I honestly don't know how I cope sometimes. When they start talking and stuff it's just the worst.....!!!!
imanautie
TS Member
BarryZola
TS Member
But I don't. If queues are longer than, say, 20 min's, I'll walk away, and not ride them.
Then get yourself a VIP Merlin Annual Pass and you will be straight on
BarryZola
TS Member
Then get yourself a VIP Merlin Annual Pass and you will be straight on
You've done me there lol. I'll give you that one with no come back just for your brilliant comic timing. Respect
Dar
TS Member
Just to be clear: I don't think you're being sincere and I don't think you're arguing in good faith.
Having said that, let's pretend I didn't say that. I have an invisible condition that I probably could use RAP for, but I don't need to because my symptoms aren't as bad as they could be. It isn't the act of queuing that's the problem, it's the environment and stimuli in the confined space of the queue that's the problem (for people with neurodevelopmental disorders, which it seems you have the biggest problem with). It's difficult to properly explain what the problem is, because I don't have any reference for what it's like with a "normal" brain setup. Imagine you can hear every person in a 5 yard radius' conversations, with no choice to ignore them, coupled with the confined space leaving you no room to move, while you're aware of your own breathing, the roaring of the ride, trying not to touch the railing so you don't get sick, trying to keep up with the queue. It's like trying to live your life with headphones on playing 2 different songs at full volume, while people are still talking to you, and there's going to be a quiz about the songs when you get off the ride.
Difference being that you could queue if you really wanted to ride, someone who needs RAP doesn't have that luxury. Queuing for that length of time just isn't an option for them, so it's RAP or no ride.
BarryZola
TS Member
You probably want me to ask, where were all of these people who couldn't queue up for a rollercoaster ride 30 years ago? Then you'll tell me that that society was so horrible that they didn't leave their comfort zone and they lived in a bubble, or room, never leaving the house for fear of ending up in a long queue? Or maybe people who had a major problem being stuck around other people for long periods of time or in queues learned to deal with it after constant exposure to it. Yes, it wasn't nice, at all, but maybe they just dealt with it and after time it became normal-ish. It was hard, but they could join in with everyone else in society, even though it wasn't pleasant.
Maybe in today's society we are too quick to write people off as being unable to do things if they find them uncomfortable? Maybe I'm trying unfairly to look at things in a wider context? I don't think I am? I'm not perfect though. I will always allow for the fact that my currrent beliefs could be wrong, and I will genuinely listen to the views of others and allow for a change in my opinion.
This could be viewed as a typical argument, but, where would we have been in WW1 and WW2 if our people decided that they didn't want to wait around in close proximity with other people until something happened? Yeah, a very small percentage of people would have not been able to deal with the situation at all due to some pre-existing condition. But that's a small percentage of people in extreme situations.
What we're talking about here is people being hard-fast in the belief that they can not stand in a queue at a theme park on one day for between 30-60 minutes, for a pleasurable experience that they have signed up for mentally. If a crowded theme park is that bad, why bother? What happens when there is a queue for food? Oh yeah, that's ok because it's under the 10 minute threshold, maybe.
You're probably right, my life is so outrageously good that I can't understand it.........
Maybe in today's society we are too quick to write people off as being unable to do things if they find them uncomfortable? Maybe I'm trying unfairly to look at things in a wider context? I don't think I am? I'm not perfect though. I will always allow for the fact that my currrent beliefs could be wrong, and I will genuinely listen to the views of others and allow for a change in my opinion.
This could be viewed as a typical argument, but, where would we have been in WW1 and WW2 if our people decided that they didn't want to wait around in close proximity with other people until something happened? Yeah, a very small percentage of people would have not been able to deal with the situation at all due to some pre-existing condition. But that's a small percentage of people in extreme situations.
What we're talking about here is people being hard-fast in the belief that they can not stand in a queue at a theme park on one day for between 30-60 minutes, for a pleasurable experience that they have signed up for mentally. If a crowded theme park is that bad, why bother? What happens when there is a queue for food? Oh yeah, that's ok because it's under the 10 minute threshold, maybe.
You're probably right, my life is so outrageously good that I can't understand it.........
Benzin
TS Member
What about the people who physically cannot stand in a queue over 30 minutes? Yet don't actually need a wheelchair or 'look' disabled?
I would imagine 30 years ago the level of information and research on varying mental disabilities was barely getting started. Why it's likely that it's more noticeable today, though of course I do think a lot of people do milk little Timmy's 'affliction' just so they don't have to queue. It's why I think Chessie and Lego tend to have ridiculous queues for them.
There is such a stigma around non-visibly disabled people. I've seen it a lot in recent years, even if there's a walking stick involved. "They don't LOOK disabled, why are they allowed on?" they cry; and the staff stare wearily back as if to say "don't be an idiot".
The way Merlin do disabled passes is the ideal way. Walibi makes you wait the length of the queue line (arguably fairer) before doing but don't supply chairs for you to wait 45 minutes in. It's just a shame that some people abuse it (though that's not always helped by staff not filling in the times properly).
I would imagine 30 years ago the level of information and research on varying mental disabilities was barely getting started. Why it's likely that it's more noticeable today, though of course I do think a lot of people do milk little Timmy's 'affliction' just so they don't have to queue. It's why I think Chessie and Lego tend to have ridiculous queues for them.
There is such a stigma around non-visibly disabled people. I've seen it a lot in recent years, even if there's a walking stick involved. "They don't LOOK disabled, why are they allowed on?" they cry; and the staff stare wearily back as if to say "don't be an idiot".
The way Merlin do disabled passes is the ideal way. Walibi makes you wait the length of the queue line (arguably fairer) before doing but don't supply chairs for you to wait 45 minutes in. It's just a shame that some people abuse it (though that's not always helped by staff not filling in the times properly).
and yet you do.
30 years ago those with hidden disabilities generally hid themselves away yes, there were no facilities to help, no recognition of ailments, even for the physically disabled it was difficult to access places, first time I went on the corkscrew I remember seeing someone being carried to and from their wheelchair by some burly bloke because there was no way for them to get the wheelchair onto the platform. Most people who had a hidden disability around that time dare not go to a crowded place through fear of ridicule and disdain from people like you.
See this is the kind of attitude that gives your shoulder chip away, (you can try to hide behind sarcasm if you want, but your true motives stick out like a sore thumb) because usually what happens in this situation is the person needing help will be taken away by one of their Carers to wait away from the crowds and someone able to will queue for the food on their behalf.
No, you don't understand because you don't want to and have a preconceived idea that every RAP user is fiddling the system and being given better treatment than you, even though you freely admit you don't know how the system works.
You hate every VIP passholder because they have something you don't and as you said yourself, they should give it up this weekend so as to make you feel better, simply because they are getting something you're not.
BarryZola
TS Member
I don't believe that every RAP user is fiddling the system. Neither do I hate every VIP pass holder, and if I did dislike any, it wouldn't be down to jealousy. If I chose to, I could purchase 20 VIP passes tomorrow and not be looking at a credit card in the process. I just don't like wasting money.
imanautie
TS Member
No you just seem to think non physical disabilities mean someone is cheating rap.
And no you couldn't just buy VIP passes, there is such thing as a waiting list and cap of 8 per order.
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Dave
TS Founding Member
If a disabled access system doesn’t work it’s the fault of the park not the people.
The best systems are those that allow users to wait the queue tine but somewhere comfortable. That way it’s less of a draw for those that abuse the system but meets the needs of those folk who need to use it.
Disney’s system in Florida was pretty well managed.
The best systems are those that allow users to wait the queue tine but somewhere comfortable. That way it’s less of a draw for those that abuse the system but meets the needs of those folk who need to use it.
Disney’s system in Florida was pretty well managed.
imanautie
TS Member
How do Disney do it? Is it just in effect fastpass all day?
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The system does work, just the popular opinion is it doesn't.
All people see if red/yellow wristband holders walking straight on to a ride, they don't see them sitting on a bench for an hour after waiting out their blackout period.
Tricksters like the one described by Roy are rare, and I totally agree they should loose their entitlement if caught.
I love the way that the fast track topic always turns into a RAP discussion
Why not simply make all queue lines disable friendly? Level access for wheelchairs, with perching fence/seats for those that can't stand for long and a quiet waiting holding area for those that can't be in amongst crowds. The bagging holds are now empty, perhaps they could be put to some good use
Yes the disable queue line might be short, but it don't always move quicker than the main queue, considering RAP are only allowed to be put on the rear seats, it's a bit like queuing for the front row on Nemesis or Rita, you wait is extended by 30 mins. On quiet days, I've have re-rides on rides and on my third go I still see the same people in the RAP queue-line waiting to get on the ride. And on very busy days, the RAP queue-lines waiting times can be very long but yet it doesn't deter those that wish to ride from queuing in the RAP queue-lines
Why not simply make all queue lines disable friendly? Level access for wheelchairs, with perching fence/seats for those that can't stand for long and a quiet waiting holding area for those that can't be in amongst crowds. The bagging holds are now empty, perhaps they could be put to some good use
Yes the disable queue line might be short, but it don't always move quicker than the main queue, considering RAP are only allowed to be put on the rear seats, it's a bit like queuing for the front row on Nemesis or Rita, you wait is extended by 30 mins
. On quiet days, I've have re-rides on rides and on my third go I still see the same people in the RAP queue-line waiting to get on the ride. And on very busy days, the RAP queue-lines waiting times can be very long but yet it doesn't deter those that wish to ride from queuing in the RAP queue-linesI love the way that the fast track topic always turns into a RAP discussion
It always does and vice versa
I don’t bring my chair with me.Isn’t that what you do ?