The Nemesis retrack; will it be a fluke?

[STEJENT]

For some people (myself included), it can be a factor in how much they enjoy the ride. Not the sole factor by any means (if it were, then many would have tiny kiddie and family coasters as their #1), but certainly a factor. For me, I don't enjoy being beaten up on a coaster that's past a certain level of roughness regardless of how good its layout might be on paper. I don't disagree that there are smooth coasters that I don't rank that highly, but comfort and rerideability are two key factors in how highly I rate a coaster. I also rate things that have an overall fun factor, and I'd argue that excessive roughness definitely takes away from that for me.

It's all about personal preference. I rate coasters that are fun, thrilling and rerideable rather than coasters that are purely intense, personally.

I can agree to some extent with this sentiment.
I personally love Grand National, I went on it with a friend who had never been on before and the roughness of it tickles me to the point where I end up laughing, almost hystericall. Whereas the friend I was with was displaying saigns of being in agony and not enjoying the experience at all.
And yet I have ridden Saw the Ride once, and had such a headache afterward, I have not had the urge to ride it again.
Not sure if that is down to Gerstlauer or the nature of TP’s land, as I’ve heard it moves a lot, with the water table.

But yes, rides can be rough and enjoyable and also not.

 

[DistortAMG]

Not sure if that is down to Gerstlauer or the nature of TP’s land, as I’ve heard it moves a lot, with the water table.

This is what seems to be the most likely reason for replacing bits of track in my opinion. The fact alot of the park is on reclaimed ground means it shifts alot too.

 

[Zeock]

I think that Oblivion will be retracked but not sure on any other of Towers' major coasters, although the fact that Colossus is being retracked increases the probability of Towers retracking some of their other coasters.

 

[Relife]

Nemesis and Oblivion are unique in that the land is modified specifically for that ride and both would be very hard and expensive to replace. The likes of Galactica,13 and even the Smiler could be removed with minimal fuss which is why I can't see any of the later being retracked

 

[Zeock]

Nemesis and Oblivion are unique in that the land is modified specifically for that ride and both would be very hard and expensive to replace. The likes of Galactica,13 and even the Smiler could be removed with minimal fuss which is why I can't see any of the later being retracked

Totally in agreement here, but Colossus at Thorpe is being retracked, but it wouldn't be especially hard to replace, so perhaps some of the other major rides at Towers other than Nemmy and Oblivion will be retracked.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Thing if Smiler gets a retrack, I can only see it staying if anyone within the next decade decides to break the inversion record in which if so, then yes, you can say Smiler will go however if not then it might give Towers some kudos to keep it as it would still hold the record by then and perhaps useful as a marketing tool and by then, the accident might have faded into memory. Short or medium term I can see it getting new lap bar trains which while won't stop any problems with the ride's structure, but nonetheless will no doubt go a long way in making it smoother for riders.

Both Thirteen and Rita and honestly likely to go next as Thirteen is honestly more problematic than Smiler given how it dies when it rains and how poor the outdoor layout can be and the less said about Rita the better. If Merlin did get a hell of a major blank cheque for a SW9 or perhaps SW10, I would actually go one further and remove both Rita and Thirteen at the same time and start again from scratch in that area to build whatever major ride and proper themed area they can go for not to mention you'd have a large area to play around with both rides gone.

Given how crap Dark Forest is, anything would be a major improvement and I'd struggle to think how hard you could make something even worse than that, though Merlin have proven to defy logic on more than one occasion.

 

[Zeock]

If Merlin did get a hell of a major blank cheque for a SW9 or perhaps SW10, I would actually go one further and remove both Rita and Thirteen at the same time and start again from scratch in that area to build whatever major ride and proper themed area they can go for not to mention you'd have a large area to play around with both rides gone.

Amazing idea, this would remove two rides which many people don't like that much (although to be honest, I really like both of them) and likely a world-class attraction put in its place. Also this would create a much more cohesive area instead of the decent at best Dark Forest area.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Amazing idea, this would remove two rides which many people don't like that much (although to be honest, I really like both of them) and likely a world-class attraction put in its place. Also this would create a much more cohesive area instead of the decent at best Dark Forest area.

And hopefully not another forest themed area again, we already have a spooky forest that looks way better in GW! Something to think about what would be better for that area.

 

[Matt.GC]

With Thorpe Park now retracking Colossus, do we think that that could raise the chances of some of Alton’s other coasters being retracked?

I wouldn't say that a replacement of one/two of the inversions on this torture contraption can be described as "Thorpe Park retracking Colossus". This is nothing like what's happening with Nemesis in any way shape or form. For most intents and purposes, Nemesis will majortly be a brand new B&M replicating the original at the end of the works, whilst Colossus will still be the horrid Intamin coaster it's been for years, with terrible trains, only with a potential new Cobra roll that's unlikely to be made by the original manufacturer. I say potential because even that's not confirmed.

This is like WD-40gate all over again. There's an interesting discussion point after Nemesis about the restoration or replacement of iconic coasters, but let's stop pretending Merlin are splashing the cash building brand new coasters all over the place.

 

[Matt N]

I wouldn't say that a replacement of one/two of the inversions on this torture contraption can be described as "Thorpe Park retracking Colossus". This is nothing like what's happening with Nemesis in any way shape or form. For most intents and purposes, Nemesis will majortly be a brand new B&M replicating the original at the end of the works, whilst Colossus will still be the horrid Intamin coaster it's been for years, with terrible trains, only with a potential new Cobra roll that's unlikely to be made by the original manufacturer. I say potential because even that's not confirmed.

This is like WD-40gate all over again. There's an interesting discussion point after Nemesis about the restoration or replacement of iconic coasters, but let's stop pretending Merlin are splashing the cash building brand new coasters all over the place.

I’m not saying that it is comparable to what’s happening with Nemesis, because I agree that it isn’t.

However, replacement of the quad heartline roll section of the track this year may well be followed up by the gradual replacement of other sections in the years to come, which would eventually see most of the track replaced and would negate the need for a removal or full-on Nemesis treatment. It could be similar to what’s being done with The Big One, which, while not a full-on “big bang” retrack like Nemesis, is certainly still a retrack that lengthens its lifespan.

I simply thought it was interesting that Thorpe Park is investing into partially retracking Colossus given that it’s not the most popular ride and arguably doesn’t have the same iconic status as Nemesis. Yes, the money being splashed is nowhere near the amount being spent on Nemesis, but it is still a not insignificant amount of money all the same, and it will go towards lengthening Colossus’ lifespan.

I personally had Colossus down as a goner (to free up space for a new ride) once Old Town and the island by Swarm had been built upon, if not earlier. Given its mixed to low popularity, its low capacity, and the fact that it was recently usurped in a big way by Sik, which is a far more revered ride in the same country that basically does the same thing, I didn’t think that Merlin would consider any attempt to lengthen Colossus’ lifespan worth the bother.

However, this recent development could suggest that Colossus may be gradually retracked over the next few seasons (like what Blackpool are doing with The Big One), which would mean that it may have longer left than I’d previously thought. I also thought that this could mean that Merlin may not be as particular about which rides to retrack as I’d thought. This would therefore mean that some of Alton’s other coasters could be more likely to receive gradual (The Big One/Colossus) or “big bang” (Nemesis) retracking.

Do you get where I’m coming from?

 

[Matt.GC]

I’m not saying that it is comparable to what’s happening with Nemesis, because I agree that it isn’t.

However, replacement of the quad heartline roll section of the track this year may well be followed up by the gradual replacement of other sections in the years to come, which would eventually see most of the track replaced and would negate the need for a removal or full-on Nemesis treatment. It could be similar to what’s being done with The Big One, which, while not a full-on “big bang” retrack like Nemesis, is certainly still a retrack that lengthens its lifespan.

I simply thought it was interesting that Thorpe Park is investing into partially retracking Colossus given that it’s not the most popular ride and arguably doesn’t have the same iconic status as Nemesis. Yes, the money being splashed is nowhere near the amount being spent on Nemesis, but it is still a not insignificant amount of money all the same, and it will go towards lengthening Colossus’ lifespan.

I personally had Colossus down as a goner (to free up space for a new ride) once Old Town and the island by Swarm had been built upon, if not earlier. Given its mixed to low popularity, its low capacity, and the fact that it was recently usurped in a big way by Sik, which is a far more revered ride in the same country that basically does the same thing, I didn’t think that Merlin would consider any attempt to lengthen Colossus’ lifespan worth the bother.

However, this recent development could suggest that Colossus may be gradually retracked over the next few seasons (like what Blackpool are doing with The Big One), which would mean that it may have longer left than I’d previously thought. I also thought that this could mean that Merlin may not be as particular about which rides to retrack as I’d thought. This would therefore mean that some of Alton’s other coasters could be more likely to receive gradual (The Big One/Colossus) or “big bang” (Nemesis) retracking.

Do you get where I’m coming from?

I do and I stand corrected. I thought I read that it was the cobra roll that was being potentially replaced and not the heartlines. But either way, this is not anywhere near the level of the Nemesis retrack.

Merlin are currently building one crap and one disappointingly short coaster within their parks alongside a Nemesis retrack from reputable and reliable manufacturers. This suggests to me that what they are aiming for is value for money more than trying to prolonge the life of their existing assets. If they were worried about the longevity and guest experience of Colossus then they would tart it up and replace those god awful trains and restraints at the same time. I suppose they came to the conclusion that their poorly conceived Jumanji and Brake Run coasters would be cheaper to maintain in the long run if they fork out on going to a quality manufacturer to build them. Whereas with the Smiler they built an iconic coaster with a Tesco Value manufacturer. A coaster where bolts fall off it and it looks like it's trying to rip itself out of the ground.

I'd imagine that Colossus is on life support and they're trying to get another 10 years out of a bad coaster whereas with Nemesis they're trying to get another 28 out of a good one.

 

[pluk]

I'm just surprised that of all the track that might need replacing on Colossus it'd be that bit. Must be under just about the least stress of all sections of the ride.

Are the new style trains the same chassis as the old? Is the Sik (eeeew) version of the ride the exact same profile through that section? Could it be that this section needs replacing not because of wear but because new trains are coming and couldn't traverse that section of track so it needs minor reprofiling?

 

[Matt N]

I'm just surprised that of all the track that might need replacing on Colossus it'd be that bit. Must be under just about the least stress of all sections of the ride.

Are the new style trains the same chassis as the old? Is the Sik (eeeew) version of the ride the exact same profile through that section? Could it be that this section needs replacing not because of wear but because new trains are coming and couldn't traverse that section of track so it needs minor reprofiling?

I’ve heard subsidence mentioned as a potential reason for this retrack happening. The quad heartline roll’s supports are over water (I think?), therefore the subsidence is worst in that section of the ride and the track needs replacing there first.

I’ll admit that in hindsight, that does vindicate what @Matt.GC says, and perhaps undermines my earlier hypothesis… sorry about that.

If subsidence is the underlying reason behind Colossus’ current track replacement, then I do accept that this could merely be a lengthening of Colossus’ more immediate lifespan to make it last a few years longer until they can replace it rather than a Nemesis or Big One style scenario where they’re trying to get a second full lifespan out of a much loved ride.

 

[WillPS]

Big One has been retracked bit by bit since it opened hasn't it? It's a consequence of compromised and/or miscalculated design rather than straight-forward life expiry AIUI.

 

[Ethan]

I don't doubt the Smiler is a popular ride. But pretty much all of Alton Towers coasters have long queues. How much of that is down to operations and throughput?

Where are people getting the idea that Smiler has a poor throughput. On 4 trains it probs easily does 900+ per hour which isn't far off the likes of Wicker and Th13teen. It for sure gets through more folk than Rita, which is definitely the worst throughput of the big coasters. And I'd argue Oblivion too because it's been a while since I've seen that ride running how it should

 

[jon81uk]

Big One has been retracked bit by bit since it opened hasn't it? It's a consequence of compromised and/or miscalculated design rather than straight-forward life expiry AIUI.

Also the salty sea air will result in a shorter lifespan for the Big One.