The Smiler - General Discussion

[Cheese]

Do we think that the clamshell lap bars like other Gerstlauer Infinity Coasters have would solve any of the ride's issues?

Nope. There's no comparison between nice comfy B&M hyper clamshells and Gerstlauer from-the-shoulder lap restraints in either design or comfort. Like I said the other day:

Incidentally, having been on Infinity coasters with lap restraints, they would not be the improvement you might think on Smiler - the seat shape is different, with a pointed edge that digs into the bottom of your thighs, and the lap restraint is even more likely to try and crush the top of them.

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Also, I think the reason for some of the ride's imperfections might simply be because Gerstlauer were less experienced at building big coasters when they built The Smiler...Now, though, Gerstlauer have built some even more ambitious rides, like Karnan, and their newer Infinity Coasters are allegedly glass smooth, so I think lessons have been learnt since they built The Smiler!

It seems unlikely. Dan made a good point to start from:

The jolts in the Smiler, most notably in two locations on the ride, should simply not be there and it is due to the poor build quality and the manufacturer that they are.

Gerstlauer coasters are rarely refined. I am not saying I would want them to be, but there is a reason they cost less than some other manufacturers.

To give you one example of where the difference lies between a Gerstlauer coaster and something top tier, as could be seen when Smiler was built, Gerstlauer coaster supports aren't bolted onto footers during construction like some other manufacturers' rides are. Instead the supports are placed into the footers and concreted in after. I'm no engineer, but that doesn't strike me as the most precise method possible, and the improvement in ease of construction it might give seems like a poor trade-off against the potential for imprecise assembly that could affect ride comfort.

The smoothest Gerstlauers are generally not lively or intense rides, and certainly in the case of thrill coasters I still wouldn't call them glass smooth. Karacho is the tamest Infinity coaster I've been on, and felt very watered down. Lap restraint and seat issues aside, my vague recollection is that it was alright to ride relative to breed standard. Anubis at Plopsa is very comfortable by Gerstlauer standards, but a POV will show you there's not a lot going on in terms of layout. The bobsled coasters and one family coaster (Vekoma Junior sort of equivalent) I've encountered have been excellent rides relative to what you would expect for the riders they're targeted at, though obviously they don't extend Gerst's capabilities in the same way.

Karnan is the polar opposite, an absolute monster. Like Smiler, it's exhilarating but far more of an ordeal to ride; personally I wouldn't go straight back round the queue for a reride if it was walk-on! Far from being glass smooth, it feels like it's really pushing the limit of what the Infinity coaster can do. Gerstlauer's website says, "Thanks to carrying wheels with very big diameter the cars accelerate easily up to velocities of 130km/h and more", but when you reach very nearly that speed at the bottom of the absurd first drop, you suspect nobody will be asking Gerstlauer for a quote for a coaster entering "and more" territory any time soon.

 

[Dave]

Nope. There's no comparison between nice comfy B&M hyper clamshells and Gerstlauer from-the-shoulder lap restraints in either design or comfort. Like I said the other day:


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It seems unlikely. Dan made a good point to start from:


To give you one example of where the difference lies between a Gerstlauer coaster and something top tier, as could be seen when Smiler was built, Gerstlauer coaster supports aren't bolted onto footers during construction like some other manufacturers' rides are. Instead the supports are placed into the footers and concreted in after. I'm no engineer, but that doesn't strike me as the most precise method possible, and the improvement in ease of construction it might give seems like a poor trade-off against the potential for imprecise assembly that could affect ride comfort.

The smoothest Gerstlauers are generally not lively or intense rides, and certainly in the case of thrill coasters I still wouldn't call them glass smooth. Karacho is the tamest Infinity coaster I've been on, and felt very watered down. Lap restraint and seat issues aside, my vague recollection is that it was alright to ride relative to breed standard. Anubis at Plopsa is very comfortable by Gerstlauer standards, but a POV will show you there's not a lot going on in terms of layout. The bobsled coasters and one family coaster (Vekoma Junior sort of equivalent) I've encountered have been excellent rides relative to what you would expect for the riders they're targeted at, though obviously they don't extend Gerst's capabilities in the same way.

Karnan is the polar opposite, an absolute monster. Like Smiler, it's exhilarating but far more of an ordeal to ride; personally I wouldn't go straight back round the queue for a reride if it was walk-on! Far from being glass smooth, it feels like it's really pushing the limit of what the Infinity coaster can do. Gerstlauer's website says, "Thanks to carrying wheels with very big diameter the cars accelerate easily up to velocities of 130km/h and more", but when you reach very nearly that speed at the bottom of the absurd first drop, you suspect nobody will be asking Gerstlauer for a quote for a coaster entering "and more" territory any time soon.

Karnan is intense and is not smooth but it doesn’t jolt as much as Smiler or Saw. There were certainly some non-Gerst construction issues with both those rides thanks to the chosen builder.

 

[bluesonichd]

Gerstlauer coaster supports aren't bolted onto footers during construction like some other manufacturers' rides are. Instead the supports are placed into the footers and concreted in after

is that true,
theres only concrete holding it in place
that doesnt seam safe at all
how can they not bolt it down

 

[Ian]

is that true,
theres only concrete holding it in place
that doesnt seam safe at all
how can they not bolt it down

Yes, that’s why if you look at the footers they just go straight into the ground. This isn’t something unique to Gerst though. Other manufacturers do the same. Spinball at Towers for instance uses the same approach.

I don’t really see how it can be considered any less safe than bolting them down, considering that all that holds the bolts in place is... Er... Concrete.

Like others say though, it certainly must come with some compromises of accuracy.

 

[John]

Karnan convinced me that Smiler would be all but unrideable if they'd gone with lap bars. Both Smiler and Karnan feel like they're pushing the limits of what the ride systems are capable of and as a result you have to actively 'fight' against it when riding - if you just sit there like a water dummy it's going to be unpleasant.

As for the bases, my understanding is that they attempt to align the track whilst the column is loosely supported then pour the grout in to secure it it place perfectly, once the grout sets the column is then secure. In theory it should be possible to get good alignment using this method but I'm not an expert. It's certainly a simpler approach than bolting the columns down but I don't know enough about the two methods to comment on their relative merits.

 

[bluesonichd]

well I learn something new today

 

[Doxical]

Even though I haven't got a chance to ride the Smiler yet, it holds a special place in my heart. It is the reason that got my interest in rollercoasters in the first place and I want to overcome my fear of coasters with inversions.
I was always scared of big rollercoasters (not because I thought they are unsafe...I was just a pussy). I liked kiddi coasters and I rode my first big wodden rollercoaster not before in my late teens. I found out about the Smiler around 1-2 years ago. I really like the design and story behind it. I was thinking "IF I can ride this beast then I got the courage to ride everything else".
I made my first step last year and got a ride at a coaster with 4 (or 5?...it doesn't matter) inversions. It was even a Gerstlauer.

 

[Poisson]

If the two big jolts were fixed (be that reprofiling and reconcreteing or whatever) and they used 5 trains, but 1 off having its wheels changed at all times it'd be alright I think, it's just the horrid knackered wheels and the jolts combine to make it unpleasant. But what do I know, my sig literally contains one of the roughest rides I've ever ridden and I love it.

 

[D4n]

The problem is inconsistency.

Smiler and Saw can both be very enjoyable.

They can also be deeply unpleasant.

A great coaster (even a good one) shouldn't be so inconsistent.

 

[Dave]

The problem is inconsistency.

Smiler and Saw can both be very enjoyable.

They can also be deeply unpleasant.

A great coaster (even a good one) shouldn't be so inconsistent.

With the Smiler my understanding (and I could be wrong) is that because it’s very stall happy they have to run it on hard wheel compounds so it runs fast and these age faster than normal wheel compounds. A lot of the experience depends on how recently the wheels have been replaced.

obviously the jolts are because the track profiling is dodgy.

 

[Matt N]

To give you one example of where the difference lies between a Gerstlauer coaster and something top tier, as could be seen when Smiler was built, Gerstlauer coaster supports aren't bolted onto footers during construction like some other manufacturers' rides are. Instead the supports are placed into the footers and concreted in after. I'm no engineer, but that doesn't strike me as the most precise method possible, and the improvement in ease of construction it might give seems like a poor trade-off against the potential for imprecise assembly that could affect ride comfort.

The smoothest Gerstlauers are generally not lively or intense rides, and certainly in the case of thrill coasters I still wouldn't call them glass smooth. Karacho is the tamest Infinity coaster I've been on, and felt very watered down. Lap restraint and seat issues aside, my vague recollection is that it was alright to ride relative to breed standard. Anubis at Plopsa is very comfortable by Gerstlauer standards, but a POV will show you there's not a lot going on in terms of layout. The bobsled coasters and one family coaster (Vekoma Junior sort of equivalent) I've encountered have been excellent rides relative to what you would expect for the riders they're targeted at, though obviously they don't extend Gerst's capabilities in the same way.

Karnan is the polar opposite, an absolute monster. Like Smiler, it's exhilarating but far more of an ordeal to ride; personally I wouldn't go straight back round the queue for a reride if it was walk-on! Far from being glass smooth, it feels like it's really pushing the limit of what the Infinity coaster can do. Gerstlauer's website says, "Thanks to carrying wheels with very big diameter the cars accelerate easily up to velocities of 130km/h and more", but when you reach very nearly that speed at the bottom of the absurd first drop, you suspect nobody will be asking Gerstlauer for a quote for a coaster entering "and more" territory any time soon.

Interestingly, the likes of Fury at Bobbejaanland, Gold Rush at Slagharen and HangTime at Knott's Berry Farm have been said to have less of a rattle than your average Mack launch coaster or B&M by some who've ridden them. I am not the biggest fan of Gerstlauer coasters from the ones I've done (Speed, Smiler and Saw in terms of thrill rides), but I get the impression that much of their best work has been done fairly recently, in terms of thrill coasters at least. Schwur des Kärnan ranks in many people's top 10 lists, even amongst those who have ridden 1000+ coasters! Takabisha is also supposed to be very smooth according to those who've ridden it, but that ride looks considerably different in terms of profiling and layout to many other Gerstlauers; it's a very big, sprawling creation, almost B&M-esque in a way.

I find it interesting that you didn't find Anubis and Karacho overly good, as I've heard nothing but rave reviews of them, especially Anubis!

 

[Burbs]

Interestingly, the likes of Fury at Bobbejaanland, Gold Rush at Slagharen and HangTime at Knott's Berry Farm have been said to have less of a rattle than your average Mack launch coaster or B&M by some who've ridden them.

Yep, I concur. I've ridden the former 2 and I didn't suffer from any Gerstache at all, even after a few re-rides. I like the lap bars on them too, but really don't think they would work too well on The Smiler. Fury is very refined in my opinion, and was clearly built with going backwards in mind.

 

[Ethan]

Everyone goes on about the jolt coming out of inversion 12 but the 13th for me is the worst part of the ride, literally throws you into it at stupid speed

 

[spinba11]

If the two big jolts were fixed (be that reprofiling and reconcreteing or whatever) and they used 5 trains, but 1 off having its wheels changed at all times it'd be alright I think, it's just the horrid knackered wheels and the jolts combine to make it unpleasant. But what do I know, my sig literally contains one of the roughest rides I've ever ridden and I love it.

They only have 4 trains, TBH I don’t think changing the wheels should cause it to be on 3 trains for a whole day.

 

[Poisson]

They only have 4 trains, TBH I don’t think changing the wheels should cause it to be on 3 trains for a whole day.

It'd be nice for them to figure out a way to change the wheels often enough then, because you can tell it's the wheels due to how differently all the trains ride

 

[Skyscraper]

It'd be nice for them to figure out a way to change the wheels often enough then, because you can tell it's the wheels due to how differently all the trains ride

Can you remember which trains are the smoother/rougher ones by their numbers?

 

[John]

It varies between rows on each train - they probably don't replace all the wheels at the same time. Inside seats also tend to ride slightly better than the outside seats.

 

[AstroDan]

I didn't find HangTime at KBF much smoother than Smiler or Karnan. It had it's "Gersty" moments, that is for sure. And that coaster is designed to be far more sedate.

 

[Skyscraper]

I think Gerst coasters are rough in general tbh. Apart from their family coasters; their Bobsleds are really smooth.

 

[MaxPower]

Every time I've ridden the Smiler it's been making some questionable noises.

Even in the first year it seemed like the thing was put together by pikeys.