The Smiler - General Discussion

[NF2]

Can only echo whats been said above - I think this is a positive thing.

I'd much rather see them pull the whole thing apart during the closed season than return to find they've done nothing but unsuccessfully play with that problematic support for the umpteenth time.

Yeah, it is shocking that it requires this much work after less than one season, but I think its more a testament of how shoddy the original work itself was than the actual ride itself. Hopefully they'll rectify the problems which lead to a pretty abysmal first season once and for all <false optimism>

 

[_nemesis_]

With all the work they are needing to do to The Smiler, I'm surprised they haven't asked for free maintenance from Gerstlauer after all, it's their fault. The amount of work needed after less than a season of operation is ridiculous. If its not fixed for 2014, I can see it going the same way as The Bat at Kings Island.

 

[Maelstrom]

It's not as simple as it being Gerstlauer fault though. Most of the problems come from the ground work which wasn't done by Gerstlauer.

 

[Ian]

Yes, the majority of the problems we've seen so far have been the result of shoddy work on the part of the groundworks surveyors and contractors. For such a large project by comparison to their other rides I'd say Gerstlauer have done a pretty good job, all things considered.

It's used a lot of new features they haven't implemented before, so I think they deserve to be cut some slack on those going wrong (I.E. The intelligent pop-up trims). Even B&M have these problems the first time around. Look at how much Blivy struggled with its dual loading system when it first opened, and Air is still riddled with bugs that have never been stamped out.

And besides, we have no idea who's paying for what here. Most new rides come with a warranty period for the first so many years, where any issues as a result of the manufacturers error will be rectified for free. It's not like it's the first time Towers have built a new ride like this. They'll have measures in place to ensure they aren't going to be loosing out on something which isn't directly their fault.

Personally, if it was me I'd want to get to the bottom of the individuals or companies responsible for the problems, and see heads roll! There's a lot of serious questions to be asked around the execution and management of this project. Touch wood all this work being put in now will secure the rides future for a good few seasons and hopefully we'll see this rather disastrous first season far behind us

---

For me personally I hope we see three main things come out of this ongoing work:

1) All the shoddy groundworks that have been giving the ride grief rectified.

2) The drainage issues sorted in the queueline and pit, hopefully leading to the indoor section being improved to how it was when it opened (Nice and smokey, and maybe some new theming too!).

3) The first inverted drop, the cobra exit, and the second to last corkscrew being smoothed out a little. These are the only notable bits I find a little uncomfortable (Although to be fair to Gerst the pull outs of cobras seem to be quite tricky to perfect).

 

[Laura]

I can't help feeling the fear that it won't be open for March 22nd again.

 

[BigDave]

Whilst Im happy the park are doing work on the ride to get the problems sorted, it does just go to show have much work was needed and how much of a state the ride was in last year. Hopefully this year they can avoid all the problems they had last year.

 

[TheMan]

That is certainly more than a little closed season maintenance. We all knew it needed it though, the state of that one support looks absolutely shocking below ground level.

It was a tricky terrain, and a ludicrous amount of ride to fit into such a small space, I think this would have had problems anyway of some description. As Ian says, Blivvy and air have had their fair share of issues in bedding in (though, to be fair, that is systems rather than - er - track).

Makes me wonder you know, just how bad was it by season close? It was running full tilt from opening every day and well past closing time on many. I really do think they pushed it to its very limits you know.

We know Alton are stringent on their safety, but that thing was on the edge.

 

[_nemesis_]

There's a lot of serious questions to be asked around the execution and management of this project.

Apparently, Merlin's project manager was sacked because of all the issues with The Smiler. Shame really. :/

 

[Benzin]

There's a lot of serious questions to be asked around the execution and management of this project.

Apparently, Merlin's project manager was sacked because of all the issues with The Smiler. Shame really. :/

Would it be a shame though?

Considering a good majority of Merlin projects have been delayed (Thirteen being finished the night before opening day as an example) or had problems (Sub Terra's opening), it's probably for the best...

Tbh, they should also sack the people involved on Zufari as well for good measure...

Getting in a crap construction team who were able to put in a piece of track the wrong way around wouldn't have helped the chances of keeping the job...

 

[_nemesis_]

It was the same bloke for Zufari that did The Smiler. And I see your point with The Smiler, Th13teen, and Nemesis: Sub-Terra. But as for Zufari, that wasn't their fault at all. The reason it doesn't look great is because of the way the budget was cut.

While some projects went badly, look as all those that were constructed well: Mutiny Bay, Saw - The Ride, Cloud Cuckoo Land, Wild Asia, Storm Surge, Raptor, Legoland Windsor Hotel, The Swarm and Africa.

Just because recently things haven't gone so well, doesn't mean it was their fault. As for Th13teen only being completed the night before opening, surely that shows how good they were at the job, managing to complete it on time even though it was delayed.

 

[jon81uk]

and Air is still riddled with bugs that have never been stamped out.

Yes this! Everyone has said how awful Rhe Smiler was I it's first season but it took me three visits to get onto Air in its first season. Around the opening in March they couldn't get the sensors to work I the rain. Then weight distribution issues stopped the seats lifting up to horizontal and larger guests had to move seats. I remember the entire queue cheating when after 15 minutes they finally got a train to despatch! And Air still has restraint issues but the ride ops have got a perfect system of calling the seat numbers out on the PA to fix them quicker.

 

[thefatone]

It was the same bloke for Zufari that did The Smiler.

You're getting confused here, you're thinking of the guy from Merlin Studios, who isn't the Project Managers. The sites would've had different PMs.

 

[Ian]

As for Th13teen only being completed the night before opening, surely that shows how good they were at the job, managing to complete it on time even though it was delayed.

Th13teen opened quite literally by the skin of its teeth. Opening morning parts of the queueline still weren't finished, and part of the reason they held everyone back before going up to the ride was because they were still getting the JCBs and construction team off the site! To me it still feels very incomplete in terms of theming, and I think you can tell it was a rush job (There's no way there was originally going to be that much scaffolding concealing the structure. Some perhaps, but not the whole front of the building!).

As for Air, yes, many issues were system related, but even that had some project management issues. It opened barely finished, and when it did there were still groundwork issues which went unnoticed. One of the supports on the inline twist used to clang whenever the train passed over. When it came to closed season it turned out this was because the footer was too small fo the support, and the sound was it bouncing up and down on the ground when the train put weight on it!

Then there was the whole issue with the station pulling itself apart, when the lifting boom snapped due to the rows on the craft lifting unevenly. Apparently B&Ms response was "Impossible", followed by "Oh. Yeah, we thought that might happen." when they actually saw it! Yes, this is more of a system bug, like Smiler with its stalling due to the trims and weight being miscalculated, but issues such as these, like Th13teen with its overspeed, or SAW and the blocking issues too, should have been picked up during testing and been rectified, but it always seems to be a case that they rush through these things in order to have the ride open, resulting in them either going undetected, or other elements such as theming being sacrificed whilst attention is diverted.

Now I know there are some problems which can only ever be detected during normal operation, which is fair enough (Air I've been told has an unusual one where every now and then it'll throw up an error, always on the same row and seat, for no apparent reason, and no one seems to know what triggers it!), but with enough time for thorough testing the majority should be spotted somewhere and rectified to reduce the downtime or number of problems it causes during day to day running with paying guests wishing to ride.

With Sub-Terra, it was perhaps project management at its worse! The brief for the ride was completely misunderstood, resulting in Alton singing from one hymn sheet with the marketing and promotion (Which was actually quite promising I thought), and the ride doing something very different. Anyone who was there and rode it opening day I'm sure will agree, that it simply wasn't the attraction which was being sold to us, and was completely unsuitable. Guests were leaving the attraction with a "WTF?!" expression, and "Is that it?" feeling. They knew they were in trouble as soon as that reporter published his review of the ride, more or less ripping it to shreds. Then, when management got a chance to try it I understand one of them described it as "A f***ing embarrassment", and another telling them to "get it sorted".

The result? Well eventually we got a half decent ride out of it, but ultimately, the changes that were made were actually pretty simple to implement. Had they known sooner how dire V.1 was they could have quite easily had these changes in place for opening day. They didn't need guests to tell them that. They knew before they even opened the ride gates what was going to happen, but by that point it was too late. Adding a dark shipping container maze, and resequencing the show wouldn't take that long. It could have probably been done more or less overnight! Instead, the night and morning before the ride opened, the techies were apparently working through it as one of the drop towers decided to go for a ratchet. Had they planned the time better it could have probably been quite different on opening day, and saved itself a lot of grief. You only need to stand by the exit for 5 minutes to tell that it now does it's job properly, especially when compared to opening day.

My point is, although The Smiler has been perhaps one of the most obviously problematic projects Alton and Merlin have had, it isn't anything that out of the ordinary for them. They frequently have these problems with their projects. Mutiny Bay, and Cloud Cuckoo Land have been mentioned somewhere. Well I'm just thankful they managed to kind of get those right! If they couldn't even carry out a simple retheme properly I would really be worried! They finally seem to have acknowledged this with CBeebies Land, and are cutting themselves some slack at last, although really we won't be able to truely see if it has worked until opening day. However, they have a lot more to loose here, as they've not just got the guests to answer to, but the BBC. If this goes belly up it could be a disaster for the park and company, so touch wood it's a success. Hopefully they will take what they learn from this, and apply it to their future projects. I guess only time will tell.

---

The bottom line is, we probably shouldn't have been too surprised really, as projects will most likely have problems at Towers looking at their history, but it's good to see they are actually going back to try and fix them now. As I said previously, I'd like to think that as a result of this major work from next season the ride will start anew, and we'll finally be rid of the troublesome issues

 

[Benzin]

It was the same bloke for Zufari that did The Smiler. And I see your point with The Smiler, Th13teen, and Nemesis: Sub-Terra. But as for Zufari, that wasn't their fault at all. The reason it doesn't look great is because of the way the budget was cut.

Nope, the problems with Zufari have nothing to do with budget cuts, more an inept design team who decided to put the exit in the worse place possible, and then the person who thought "Hey, we need a pointless pre-show!"

Hell, the money saved from cutting the awful pre-show could have easily been put into something else...

While some projects went badly, look as all those that were constructed well: Mutiny Bay, Saw - The Ride, Cloud Cuckoo Land, Wild Asia, Storm Surge, Raptor, Legoland Windsor Hotel, The Swarm and Africa.

I see, so because a project is built well, means it's ok... Cos let's be honest, that list is chock full of mediocrity... Hell if Storm Surge couldn't be built properly then Thorpe really should give up running a theme park (implying that they can in the first place)... But then half of those projects are just rehashed themes, if we're going to give them credit for finishing projects on time, let's give it for Swarm and Raptor... Not Saw because it's rubbish and didn't open much if at all originally...

Even so, not one of those projects are of an immensely high detailed quality...

Just because recently things haven't gone so well, doesn't mean it was their fault. As for Th13teen only being completed the night before opening, surely that shows how good they were at the job, managing to complete it on time even though it was delayed.

Now, I've had to do projects at college and university within a set deadline... It might just be me, but even with delays for whatever reason, finishing a project the night before it's due in is the worst possible example of 'good planning'...


Tbh, I'd sack the project manager for Smiler purely because of their choice of contracted company to build it... Someone had to choose them...

 

[_nemesis_]

Just because recently things haven't gone so well, doesn't mean it was their fault. As for Th13teen only being completed the night before opening, surely that shows how good they were at the job, managing to complete it on time even though it was delayed.

Now, I've had to do projects at college and university within a set deadline... It might just be me, but even with delays for whatever reason, finishing a project the night before it's due in is the worst possible example of 'good planning'...

I didn't mean it like that. What I ment was, if I was running an important theme park project, whilst I would have started on it the moment I saw as set the task, I would want to let may hands off it until the very end, just to make it as good as it possible could have been. Do we know that with thirteen that they weren't just double checking the fencing panels or makeing the surfaces just right?

Tbh, I'd sack the project manager for Smiler purely because of their choice of contracted company to build it... Someone had to choose them...

Gerstlauer were chosen for obviouse reasons. They picked them because of the small space needed for inversions in a Eurofighter/Infinity Coaster, they were also chosen because of the low noise level, as the ride is close to the ropers house. It had been B&M, we would have had that signature roar noise every time the train passes over.

 

[electricBlll]

I would want to let may hands off it until the very end, just to make it as good as it possible could have been. Do we know that with thirteen that they weren't just double checking the fencing panels or makeing the surfaces just right?

You make it sound like Alton Towers were perfecting Thirteen down to the last details, but that's just not true. Even to this day Thirteen has no details, it's a pretty superficial excuse to put riders in a building and make the track drop - nothing like the original concepts which looked brilliant.

When Thirteen opened the tesla coil still hadn't been installed correctly and the queue design rushed just in time. It's expected for rides to evolve post-opening, sometimes radically, but even now Thirteen is hardly a finished product is it?

The situation was worse with Nemesis SubTerra and The Smiler. You don't need to defend the management all the time you know! They are humans doing a job after all, not unattainable beings, so even they might admit there have been mistakes.

 

[_nemesis_]

I'm not defending them by any means, some of the thing wrong with smiler and Sub Terra were pretty poor, just stop sounding like you think the management are going to bring the apocalypse.

Sorry if I'm getting annoying, this closed season is really getting to me

 

[Ian]

Tbh, I'd sack the project manager for Smiler purely because of their choice of contracted company to build it... Someone had to choose them...

Gerstlauer were chosen for obviouse reasons. They picked them because of the small space needed for inversions in a Eurofighter/Infinity Coaster, they were also chosen because of the low noise level, as the ride is close to the ropers house. It had been B&M, we would have had that signature roar noise every time the train passes over.

Now I'm not sure if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick with Benzin here, but there is a difference between the builder and the manufacturer.

Gerstlauer (The manufacturer) designs and produces the actual track and train for the ride system (Although a lot of companies don't even build their own track. A lot of it comes from a separate contractor. I think Intamin, Zierer, and maybe Gerst use the same one).

The builders (Who I believe are responsible for many of the problems here) deal with the groundwork and construction of the ride. Obviously, the manufacturer will usually be on hand to oversee things in case issues arrise, but essentially they get a load of pieces and a set of instructions, and are tasked with the job of putting it all together. It's like a giant Lego or K'nex set. If someone builds a structure out of Lego and it falls down because it wasn't put together properly, do you blame Lego or K'nex? No, you blame the person who put it together!

As I said before, I personally believe that Gerstlauer did a great job, all things considered. The decision to go with them did seem a little odd at first, but now it's finished it's become clear why they were selected. They simply had the product that was fit for purpose at the time

 

[TheMan]

They simply had the product that was fit for purpose at the time

And by the sounds of things, at pretty darn short notice too!

It's expected for rides to evolve post-opening, sometimes radically, but even now Thirteen is hardly a finished product is it?

This to me, is where Merlin/Towers - whoever is in charge of this - gets a big fat ZERO.

The quality of the themes on park, do not match the flagship park status. It does not even come close.

The evolution of themes keeps a ride fresh and attractive. There are new visitors to these parks every year, and when Nemesis looks tatty, air was never finished, it took getting Smiler for Oblivion to get some TLC, Dark Forest is an absolute joke - the standard is just not good enough. Not for me, because ironically, I like the rides and know what they could be so try to enjoy them as if they are.

It's a fallacy to think the GP don't notice either, those I have been with who are far from enthusiasts tend to notice more than I do, in your face marketing everywhere, tatty paint work and things just looking tired and run down.

Once a ride is on park, it seems that's it, who cares what it looks like anymore?

I am not saying Towers wouldn't like to do things, I don't know who is responsible for this side, but someone is, and they should hang their head in shame because they are appalling at their job!

 

[Benzin]

Since it clearly isnt obvious what I meant by contractors, I meant the construction company, as I like Gerstlauer...

And as mentioned, the last minute Thirteen stuff involved it getting ready for it to be safe to open, rather than detailing... Shocking planning really...