Thorpe Park: General Discussion

[owenstreet7]

At what point do Thorpe actually bring a claim against Mack for this? Shocking how poor it’s been reliability wise and as much as my default position would be to blame Merlin, to be fair everything else seems to be running fine.

I'm not really sure if it's actually Mack or Merlin to be honest.

Mack seem to be a very reliable manufacturer however the ride is very experimental which may explain some of the issues but not entirely. I can't argue that Merlin isn't part of the problems too.

 

[Josh555]

I'm not really sure if it's actually Mack or Merlin to be honest.

Mack seem to be a very reliable manufacturer however the ride is very experimental which may explain some of the issues but not entirely. I can't argue that Merlin isn't part of the problems too.

Merlin’s issues tend to be ride maintenance and employing enough mechanics etc to get rides open and to react to downtime, hence you get rides opening late and more downtime than you would at a park run by a decent company.

I can’t think of another ride in their lineup that has experienced anything like these issues - ghost train possibly but that was the VR stuff.

I’ve no idea whose fault it is but whoever it is you’d think can’t be far away from having a pretty unpleasant communication, it’s a multi million pound investment that has spent far more time of the opening weekend closed than it has open.

 

[Skyscraper]

Merlin’s issues tend to be ride maintenance and employing enough mechanics etc to get rides open and to react to downtime, hence you get rides opening late and more downtime than you would at a park run by a decent company.

I can’t think of another ride in their lineup that has experienced anything like these issues - ghost train possibly but that was the VR stuff.

I’ve no idea whose fault it is but whoever it is you’d think can’t be far away from having a pretty unpleasant communication, it’s a multi million pound investment that has spent far more time of the opening weekend closed than it has open.

Yep and as has been mentioned previously, the other rides suffer because all the techies are at Hyperia trying to get the shiny new toy fixed.

 

[owenstreet7]

I’ve no idea whose fault it is but whoever it is you’d think can’t be far away from having a pretty unpleasant communication, it’s a multi million pound investment that has spent far more time of the opening weekend closed than it has open.

One thing that I have noticed is that Alton Towers seemed to have a lot of issues with The Smiler at the start however we don't hear of the issues nowadays.

I'd say comparable or possibly more than Hyperia so far, there is a possibility that Mack sorts out the lift hill and we don't hear of any more issues moving forwards.

I can't imagine that Merlin will stop using Mack for future ride investments like they did Gerstlauer though it might make Merlin think about whether to go for Mack or Intamin for a thrill coaster in the future.

 

[flyingguitar]

One thing that I have noticed is that Alton Towers seemed to have a lot of issues with The Smiler at the start however we don't hear of the issues nowadays.

the smiler was a brand new ride type, similarly if I understand the lift hill is a new design to be steeper.

I can't imagine that Merlin will stop using Mack for future ride investments like they did Gerstlauer

Not probably going to happen, Gerstlauer they only had 2 rides (Saw and the smiler) but Mack they have been working with for decades, RMT, TCAAM, battle galleons, etc, and problematic rides happen from time to time, remember Air?

Gerstlauer also they have only built like 5 rides in the UK since the smiler, and none of them to me would have fit in with Gertlauers line up (maybe lego speedway or jumanji)

 

[owenstreet7]

the smiler was a brand new ride type, similarly if I understand the lift hill is a new design to be steeper.

True although it is a refined version of a Eurofighter. The difference between a Eurofighter and an Infinity from Gerstlauer is similar to a Big Dipper and a Stryker with Mack.

Not probably going to happen, Gerstlauer they only had 2 rides (Saw and the smiler) but Mack they have been working with for decades, RMT, TCAAM, battle galleons, etc, and problematic rides happen from time to time, remember Air?

Gerstlauer also they have only built like 5 rides in the UK since the smiler, and none of them to me would have fit in with Gertlauers line up (maybe lego speedway or jumanji)

That is true that Merlin have been working with Mack for years and that will probably go in favour of future rides from Mack.

Air was a prototype which there would be issues. Oblivion and Thirteen are the same.

With Gerstlauer, there was one ride opened in the UK since the Smiler opened which was the SBNO Skyforce at Blackpool. This was from the year of the Smiler Crash and no rides have opened in the UK since the crash from Gerstlauer. The Smiler is the newest UK Gerstlauer coaster.

In the UK, Gerstlauer opened:

Cobra - Paultons - Bobsled - 2006
Troublesome Trucks - Drayton - Junior - 2008
Smiler - Alton Towers - Infinity - 2013
Saw - Thorpe - Eurofighter - 2009
Speed - Oakwood - Eurofighter - 2006
Rage - Adventure Island - Eurofighter - 2007
Skyforce - Blackpool - Sky Fly - 2015

There are plenty of ride types that would fit in at a Merlin park from Gerstlauer however I doubt they're working with Gerstlauer again following the Smiler.

I don't know if the relationship between Merlin and Gerstlauer is something like Cedar Fair where they don't work with certain manufacturers after issues with a coaster or if it's more because they don't have anything that fits their requirements.

 

[AT86]

It is a possibility that it’s Gerst that don’t want to work with Merlin, not the other way around.

 

[Funcone]

Is Hyperia definitely having technical problems, or have they just closed it a bit early for an April Fool's Day joke?

 

[RicketyCricket]

In fairness to Mack, it does run very well when it works, and got through last summer near faultlessly. Rode it over 50 times myself and if it ever broke down it was only for ten minutes or so. The only lengthy delay I recall was to clear some Swans from the ride area.

 

[flyingguitar]

True although it is a refined version of a Eurofighter. The difference between a Eurofighter and an Infinity from Gerstlauer is similar to a Big Dipper and a Stryker with Mack.

another point is that I think the smiler was the first magnetic ARB

There are plenty of ride types that would fit in at a Merlin park from Gerstlauer however I doubt they're working with Gerstlauer again following the Smiler.

I don't know if the relationship between Merlin and Gerstlauer is something like Cedar Fair where they don't work with certain manufacturers after issues with a coaster or if it's more because they don't have anything that fits their requirements.

I was thinking about fitting in with the investments they made (nemesis reborn had to be a B&M invert, gerst don't make wooden rollercoasters so it couldn't fit in with wicker man, gerst have made a 200+ft coaster but I don't think it would have fit the design spec of hyperia (and probably be too similar to saw, as it would have to be an infinity coaster), jumanji and lego speed way they could have used one of their family coasters, but again I don't really think it would have fit in)

 

[Secret Weapon]

There are plenty of ride types that would fit in at a Merlin park from Gerstlauer however I doubt they're working with Gerstlauer again following the Smiler.

I don't know if the relationship between Merlin and Gerstlauer is something like Cedar Fair where they don't work with certain manufacturers after issues with a coaster or if it's more because they don't have anything that fits their requirements.

I am surprised to hear this, because I did not think that Gerstlauer was to blame for The Smiler's crash? Or are you referring to other issues with the ride that Merlin were unhappy with?

It is a possibility that it’s Gerst that don’t want to work with Merlin, not the other way around.

That strikes me as more likely, although I had always assumed that Saw was quite successful, and it might not be a good business idea to avoid the largest theme park operator in the country. My gut instinct is that perhaps Gerstlauer don't offer a diverse enough range of rides to be used much again, as their core offering seems to be smaller and compact rides?

EDIT: I remember John Wardley once stating in an interview that theme parks often fall out with manufacturers (although he didn't give any examples), but that they eventually "kiss and make-up".

It's called a design issue.

I agree that the design is probably partly to blame; I might be wrong, but I think that Hyperia's Kremer Roll is taller than the element that precedes it (the Immelman), which may be what has contributed to the two rollbacks (that we know of) thus far.

 

[owenstreet7]

I am surprised to hear this, because I did not think that Gerstlauer was to blame for The Smiler's crash? Or are you referring to other issues with the ride that Merlin were unhappy with?

I was referring to the numerous other issues in the lead up to the Smiler Crash which is the straw that broke the camel's back. There was multiple issues and incidents (especially during the ride's opening year) leading up to the crash.

Before it was ruled to be human error, there was a lot of scrutiny on Gerstlauer as well as Alton Towers which I wouldn't be surprised if either Merlin, Gerstlauer or mutually they've decided to not work together since.

 

[Rob]

It is somewhat unfortunate that Thorpe seem to have bought the world's most unreliable Mack coaster. You do have to start to wonder whether it is a Mack problem or a Merlin/Thorpe procedural problem.

On the face of it Voltron is far more technically advanced than Hyperia yet usually operates without issue.

 

[Itgoeshowhigh]

Due to the issues with Hyperia, would Mack possibly offer a compensatory deal to Thorpe for a future coaster?
Something like, we’re sorry Hyperia has been a bit problematic, as a goodwill gesture we can offer you 20% off a nice extreme spinner for that field behind swarm.

 

[owenstreet7]

Due to the issues with Hyperia, would Mack possibly offer a compensatory deal to Thorpe for a future coaster?
Something like, we’re sorry Hyperia has been a bit problematic, as a goodwill gesture we can offer you 20% off a nice extreme spinner for that field behind swarm.

It is possible yes - even if it's a like for like (or slightly larger and modern) replacement for Flying Fish for free or heavily discounted.

 

[Josh555]

Due to the issues with Hyperia, would Mack possibly offer a compensatory deal to Thorpe for a future coaster?
Something like, we’re sorry Hyperia has been a bit problematic, as a goodwill gesture we can offer you 20% off a nice extreme spinner for that field behind swarm.

Honestly think it's far more likely that the relationship will break down unless it gets sorted.

Who knows whether it's a Mack issue or a Merlin/Thorpe issue but the point is neither come out of it looking good and the likely consequence of that is a reluctance to do business again.

You would hope that something is being done to rectify whatever the issue is now for good but as always seems to be the case with Merlin it's beyond frustrating that they seem to wait until the season starts to do this stuff. I'm no technician so I could be way off with this, but to my untrained eye this ride isn't going down because of the strain of running 8 hour days, it's having an issue, being remedied and then going down again within 30 minutes - surely whatever this problem was could have been identified over the 4 months that the park has been clsoed and ideally been dealt with then? If the issue was so major that it couldn't be dealt with over the winter then at least they can communicate that to the public as they did last year so that people plan accordingly.

I'm meant to be going on Saturday, will probably go anyway as I've not been to Thorpe for 6 years purely because last time I went the 'Merlinasation' made me not want to go back any time soon - for all the stick AT gets on here I think Thorpe really was far worse, at least back then. But anyway they do have good rides and thankfully the reliability of those rides has been much better of late from what I've seen so I'll have a good day with or without Hyperia, albeit I wouldn't have planned the trip were it not for Hyperia.

 

[flyingguitar]

It is somewhat unfortunate that Thorpe seem to have bought the world's most unreliable Mack coaster. You do have to start to wonder whether it is a Mack problem or a Merlin/Thorpe procedural problem.

On the face of it Voltron is far more technically advanced than Hyperia yet usually operates without issue.

Not a lot of volition was new, just a big combination of them, their lim's have been used for a while, the turntable has been used on powersplash whilst probably a slightly differnt design, it will be similar to the other models.

If the chain lift is a new design (longer and steeper than mack has made) that is a difficult problem to solve and there are quite a few issues that could crop up.

I would guess it may be more likely a Mack rides issue, It is unlikely merlin would have done anything to ruin it yet (as it sounds like a mechanical problem).

You would hope that something is being done to rectify whatever the issue is now for good but as always seems to be the case with Merlin it's beyond frustrating that they seem to wait until the season starts to do this stuff.

I think they thought the issue was solved back when they fixed it.

They can't really start that much earlier as essentially every train for every ride has to be completely disassembled inspected, then reassembled that takes quite a while.

 

[Josh555]

I think they thought the issue was solved back when they fixed it.

They can't really start that much earlier as essentially every train for every ride has to be completely disassembled inspected, then reassembled that takes quite a while.

Surely it would make sense to do all of this 2 weeks before the season starts so that any of these issues are highlighted then?

 

[flyingguitar]

Surely it would make sense to do all of this 2 weeks before the season starts so that any of these issues are highlighted then?

They do, they test the ride for a while to ensure it is good, whilst I am not sure how long they tested hyperia, it was testing weeks before it opened. I also think there are regulations requiring the rides to be run and tested to be certified at the start of the season (although it is a bit fussy due to many sources being American with differnt rules)

 

[Josh555]

They do, they test the ride for a while to ensure it is good, whilst I am not sure how long they tested hyperia, it was testing weeks before it opened. I also think there are regulations requiring the rides to be run and tested to be certified at the start of the season (although it is a bit fussy due to many sources being American with differnt rules)

It just seems incredibly coincidental that the problems kicked in on opening day.

It feels as if they must have been aware of the issue but didn't want to publicise it initially so as not to affect visitor numbers but that is probably just me being sceptical.