Toxicator: General Discussion

[Secret Weapon]

There’s a rumour running around that Blade closed because it was that old that Huss refused to service it and told Alton Towers to buy a new model. They were not prepared to pay for one.

Take that as you will, because it’s entirely hearsay, also if someone wants to debunk that rumour, please do.

The story that I heard (possibly from Theme Park Worldwide - I can't remember) was that AT may have secretly bought 2 Huss rides at the same time (Toxicator and a new pirate ship), as Huss allegedly provide a discount if two rides are bought simultaneously* (I can't verify this myself), and thus another pirate ship may eventually find its way to AT at some point in the future

I'd be curious whether the hypothetical new pirate ship would be installed in Forbidden Valley, or copies Drayton Manor and goes in Mutiny Bay instead (possibly giving Heave-Ho the old Heave-Ho); given that Blade was originally in X-Sector anyway, I don't think it's essential that a new pirate ship has to go into FV? In which case, the old Blade pit could have been used for Toxicator

(*I'm not sure if the discount only applies if both rides are delivered on the same lorry, though, and so I'm not sure if it would still be in effect in future)

 

[Skyscraper]

The story that I heard (possibly from Theme Park Worldwide - I can't remember) was that AT may have secretly bought 2 Huss rides at the same time (Toxicator and a new pirate ship), as Huss allegedly provide a discount if two rides are bought simultaneously* (I can't verify this myself), and thus another pirate ship may eventually find its way to AT at some point in the future

I'd be curious whether the hypothetical new pirate ship would be installed in Forbidden Valley, or copies Drayton Manor and goes in Mutiny Bay instead (possibly giving Heave-Ho the old Heave-Ho); given that Blade was originally in X-Sector anyway, I don't think it's essential that a new pirate ship has to go into FV? In which case, the old Blade pit could have been used for Toxicator

(*I'm not sure if the discount only applies if both rides are delivered on the same lorry, though, and so I'm not sure if it would still be in effect in future)

A few years ago it was rumoured that Towers had signed a three-ride deal with huss,, with Toxicator being the first one. Time will tell as to whether there is any truth to that.

 

[flyingguitar]

I don't think the 3 ride deal was that secret, didn't Bianca talk about it?

Blades closing was very abrupt, I recall it being quite sudden, I wonder if they were planning on replacing it as part of the deal, but something fell through (and toxicator was far along its construction.

time will tell if we get the other 2 rides

 

[Squiggs]

I have a question: thinking about it now, why didn’t Alton Towers just use the old Blade / Thunder Looper pit for Toxicator, instead of building a gigantic concrete platform to house the new pit inside?

Granted, Blade was still in the park when Toxicator was being built during 2024, but this was partly due to the time required to build the gigantic concrete platform; if this wasn’t required (and the Blade pit was used instead), then could Toxicator have been quickly assembled during the off-season at the end of 2024? If not, then could Blade have been removed earlier in the year?

Did AT decide not to use the old Blade pit because (A) they didn’t know at the time that Blade was going to be scrapped; (B) they have plans to eventually bring a new pirate ship back at some point, and so they want to preserve the space for future use; (C) it didn’t occur to them; (D) they thought an elevated pit would look better anyway; or (E) maybe Toxicator wouldn’t fit in the old Blade pit?

If Toxicator had replaced Blade, then it would have been the third ride to make use of the old pit (after Blade and Thunder Looper), which could possibly have been an international record?

Almost certainly (A). Merlin are not known for their long term planning, especially when it comes to relatively small decisions such as removing an old flat ride.

There’s a rumour running around that Blade closed because it was that old that Huss refused to service it and told Alton Towers to buy a new model. They were not prepared to pay for one.

Take that as you will, because it’s entirely hearsay, also if someone wants to debunk that rumour, please do.

I don't know either way, but this doesn't seem very likely. Firstly because this would make no business sense from Huss, given that if they had a service contract on The Blade, they are now out of pocket from its removal.

Secondly the last round of significant refurb of The Blade was done by Garmendale, who Alton Towers still work with (e.g. on the retrack of Get Set Go last year). So they have a supplier nearby who would have been more than capable of servicing The Blade, and evidence would suggest were actually the company who held this contract during the ride's final years.

Also, as an aside, there are quite a few older Huss Pirate Ships still operating, so the model is clearly capable for operating for many years long then The Blade. The Blade wasn't even the oldest version operating in the UK.

 

[Secret Weapon]

I don't know either way, but this doesn't seem very likely. Firstly because this would make no business sense from Huss, given that if they had a service contract on The Blade, they are now out of pocket from its removal.

My only counter to this would be Nemesis Reborn: John Wardley said in his second book that B&M were refusing to provide any further technical support for Nemesis unless it was replaced with an entirely new track* (which was paid for by Alton Towers – not B&M), and so perhaps Huss gave the same ultimatum to Alton Towers regarding Blade as well?

I wouldn’t blame Huss for asking AT to pay for an entirely new model, as 41 years is surely a long enough time to support an older model?

Maybe there was an issue with the older model, such as certain ride parts now being hard to source? (this is totally just speculation on my part, though, and so probably wrong)

(*JW specifically said that B&M were too honourable a company to pretend that the track needed replacing when it actually didn’t, simply in order to squeeze more money out of Alton Towers; he is probably correct, although it’s worth remembering that many of the original staff who he worked with are no longer there)

Regarding Huss: I remember hearing speculation that certain manufacturers possibly provide different levels of support than others (e.g. cheaper manufacturers may expect the park to pay for maintenance, whereas more expensive ones may supply some of the labour and/or parts themselves), but I’m not sure how accurate any of this is

[EDIT: In response to the comment from Rob below - I think it was Coaster Dad who suggested that companies such as Gerstlauer possibly didn't provide as much free maintenance work for The Smiler as other firms might have done (following the early problems with the ride in 2013), but I believe he said it as a suggestion rather than with certainty]

 

[Rob]

So, shall we get back to Toxicator perhaps? There are other threads to discuss the demise of poor old Blade.

Also just another quick note regarding speculation that you've heard. Posting speculation and rumours is all well and good, but ideally when you know they are from well respected sources. If you can't remember where you've heard, or have just picked it up because someone said it online somewhere, then chances are it is not true and therefore does not contribute to good discussion on the forum. So I would kindly ask that we avoid posting lots of this sort of speculation.

Thank you!