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Toxicator: General Discussion

Bert2theSpark said:
There’s a rumour running around that Blade closed because it was that old that Huss refused to service it and told Alton Towers to buy a new model. They were not prepared to pay for one.

Take that as you will, because it’s entirely hearsay, also if someone wants to debunk that rumour, please do.
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The story that I heard (possibly from Theme Park Worldwide - I can't remember) was that AT may have secretly bought 2 Huss rides at the same time (Toxicator and a new pirate ship), as Huss allegedly provide a discount if two rides are bought simultaneously* (I can't verify this myself), and thus another pirate ship may eventually find its way to AT at some point in the future

I'd be curious whether the hypothetical new pirate ship would be installed in Forbidden Valley, or copies Drayton Manor and goes in Mutiny Bay instead (possibly giving Heave-Ho the old Heave-Ho); given that Blade was originally in X-Sector anyway, I don't think it's essential that a new pirate ship has to go into FV? In which case, the old Blade pit could have been used for Toxicator

(*I'm not sure if the discount only applies if both rides are delivered on the same lorry, though, and so I'm not sure if it would still be in effect in future)
 
Secret Weapon said:
The story that I heard (possibly from Theme Park Worldwide - I can't remember) was that AT may have secretly bought 2 Huss rides at the same time (Toxicator and a new pirate ship), as Huss allegedly provide a discount if two rides are bought simultaneously* (I can't verify this myself), and thus another pirate ship may eventually find its way to AT at some point in the future

I'd be curious whether the hypothetical new pirate ship would be installed in Forbidden Valley, or copies Drayton Manor and goes in Mutiny Bay instead (possibly giving Heave-Ho the old Heave-Ho); given that Blade was originally in X-Sector anyway, I don't think it's essential that a new pirate ship has to go into FV? In which case, the old Blade pit could have been used for Toxicator

(*I'm not sure if the discount only applies if both rides are delivered on the same lorry, though, and so I'm not sure if it would still be in effect in future)
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A few years ago it was rumoured that Towers had signed a three-ride deal with huss,, with Toxicator being the first one. Time will tell as to whether there is any truth to that.
 
I don't think the 3 ride deal was that secret, didn't Bianca talk about it?

Blades closing was very abrupt, I recall it being quite sudden, I wonder if they were planning on replacing it as part of the deal, but something fell through (and toxicator was far along its construction.

time will tell if we get the other 2 rides
 
Secret Weapon said:
I have a question: thinking about it now, why didn’t Alton Towers just use the old Blade / Thunder Looper pit for Toxicator, instead of building a gigantic concrete platform to house the new pit inside?

Granted, Blade was still in the park when Toxicator was being built during 2024, but this was partly due to the time required to build the gigantic concrete platform; if this wasn’t required (and the Blade pit was used instead), then could Toxicator have been quickly assembled during the off-season at the end of 2024? If not, then could Blade have been removed earlier in the year?

Did AT decide not to use the old Blade pit because (A) they didn’t know at the time that Blade was going to be scrapped; (B) they have plans to eventually bring a new pirate ship back at some point, and so they want to preserve the space for future use; (C) it didn’t occur to them; (D) they thought an elevated pit would look better anyway; or (E) maybe Toxicator wouldn’t fit in the old Blade pit?

If Toxicator had replaced Blade, then it would have been the third ride to make use of the old pit (after Blade and Thunder Looper), which could possibly have been an international record?
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Almost certainly (A). Merlin are not known for their long term planning, especially when it comes to relatively small decisions such as removing an old flat ride.

Bert2theSpark said:
There’s a rumour running around that Blade closed because it was that old that Huss refused to service it and told Alton Towers to buy a new model. They were not prepared to pay for one.

Take that as you will, because it’s entirely hearsay, also if someone wants to debunk that rumour, please do.
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I don't know either way, but this doesn't seem very likely. Firstly because this would make no business sense from Huss, given that if they had a service contract on The Blade, they are now out of pocket from its removal.

Secondly the last round of significant refurb of The Blade was done by Garmendale, who Alton Towers still work with (e.g. on the retrack of Get Set Go last year). So they have a supplier nearby who would have been more than capable of servicing The Blade, and evidence would suggest were actually the company who held this contract during the ride's final years.

Also, as an aside, there are quite a few older Huss Pirate Ships still operating, so the model is clearly capable for operating for many years long then The Blade. The Blade wasn't even the oldest version operating in the UK.
 
Squiggs said:
I don't know either way, but this doesn't seem very likely. Firstly because this would make no business sense from Huss, given that if they had a service contract on The Blade, they are now out of pocket from its removal.
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My only counter to this would be Nemesis Reborn: John Wardley said in his second book that B&M were refusing to provide any further technical support for Nemesis unless it was replaced with an entirely new track* (which was paid for by Alton Towers – not B&M), and so perhaps Huss gave the same ultimatum to Alton Towers regarding Blade as well?

I wouldn’t blame Huss for asking AT to pay for an entirely new model, as 41 years is surely a long enough time to support an older model?

Maybe there was an issue with the older model, such as certain ride parts now being hard to source? (this is totally just speculation on my part, though, and so probably wrong)

(*JW specifically said that B&M were too honourable a company to pretend that the track needed replacing when it actually didn’t, simply in order to squeeze more money out of Alton Towers; he is probably correct, although it’s worth remembering that many of the original staff who he worked with are no longer there)

Regarding Huss: I remember hearing speculation that certain manufacturers possibly provide different levels of support than others (e.g. cheaper manufacturers may expect the park to pay for maintenance, whereas more expensive ones may supply some of the labour and/or parts themselves), but I’m not sure how accurate any of this is

[EDIT: In response to the comment from Rob below - I think it was Coaster Dad who suggested that companies such as Gerstlauer possibly didn't provide as much free maintenance work for The Smiler as other firms might have done (following the early problems with the ride in 2013), but I believe he said it as a suggestion rather than with certainty]
 
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So, shall we get back to Toxicator perhaps? There are other threads to discuss the demise of poor old Blade.

Also just another quick note regarding speculation that you've heard. Posting speculation and rumours is all well and good, but ideally when you know they are from well respected sources. If you can't remember where you've heard, or have just picked it up because someone said it online somewhere, then chances are it is not true and therefore does not contribute to good discussion on the forum. So I would kindly ask that we avoid posting lots of this sort of speculation.

Thank you!
 
MaxPower said:
Does anyone know if they've actually installed any water filtration system in place for the fountains?

One of the more plausible rumours I've read is that they've been having problems with algae in the trough.
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I'd be curious to know the answer to this as well. It seems like a massive oversight if this was the case, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.

P.S. Regarding the current condition of the fountains: the video below says that the new sheets have actually been screwed into the concrete (not just temporarily weighed down*), which suggests that the fountains might be off for a while

(*Unless it's the case that the sheets need to be fastened down even for temporary repairs, to avoid the risk of the sheets flying off - although, if the repairs were only temporary, then surely the fountains could simply be left exposed instead of covered?)

P.P.S. Hopefully the staff realise that the sheets are flimsy and not solid, and so don't attempt to walk on them by mistake (unlike a wall, putting sheets on an open floor can potentially be a risky move)


From: https://youtu.be/enua9Cr102E
 
MaxPower said:
Does anyone know if they've actually installed a water filtration system in place for the fountains?
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There will be a water filtration system for the fountain. Whether it's working or not is a different question and could be related to the closure.
Water quality 262 For attractions where people are deliberately or incidentally brought into contact with water, including the inhalation of water aerosols, suitable and sufficient treatment/dosing and testing arrangements should be provided to make sure that the quality of the water does not present a risk to health from bacteria such as legionella. More advice on the control of legionella is on HSE’s website:

Source - https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg175.pdf
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Under COSHH, once a risk is identified via a mandatory risk assessment, the operator is legally required to implement a mechanism to prevent or control it. This would in all likelihood be filtration paired with chemical dosing (like chlorine) or UV treatment.
Secret Weapon said:
P.S. Regarding the current condition of the fountains: the video below says that the new sheets have actually been screwed into the concrete (not just temporarily weighed down*), which suggests that the fountains might be off for a while
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I'd expect any covering, temporary or otherwise, to be properly secured around the immediate vicinity of an operating mechanical machine, in line with HSE requirements, especially when it's a ride and guests are involved.
 
Secret Weapon said:
P.P.S. Hopefully the staff realise that the sheets are flimsy and not solid, and so don't attempt to walk on them by mistake (unlike a wall, putting sheets on an open floor can potentially be a risky move)
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Anyone in that area will be harnessed I would imagine with the unprotected edge, plus I am sure the RAMS would show the risk of the pits.
 
I’m not sure if anybody would find this interesting, but Dean on YouTube spent the first 10 minutes of his latest vlog discussing the absent water fountains on Toxicator (and he then revisits the ride at the 29:25 mark as well), and he also mentions a few other issues that I was unaware of (but that you may all know) – such as the fact that Alton Towers are apparently only allowed to use a limited amount of water each year, and that the staff therefore had to once resort to using water pistols on Ripsaw during one season - see link below

He also says that, unlike Ripsaw, the Toxicator computer has to monitor how many times it spins? You can see the (empty) ride regularly pausing during the first 10 minutes of the video, and so I’m assuming it was filmed before the park opened?
rob666 said:
It is common practice to put boards under tarps, to stop them sagging in the rain and pooling water.
Sad but true.
Boring post of the year nomination.
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Looking at the tarp again, it seems to rise slightly in the centre (presumably in order to cause rainwater to run off to either side), but I wonder if there is simply a central pole / rail in the middle (similar to a tent), rather than an entire board that can be walked on?


From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9gdCUjPLh0
 
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Secret Weapon said:
Looking at the tarp again, it seems to rise slightly in the centre (presumably in order to cause rainwater to run off to either side), but I wonder if there is simply a central pole / rail in the middle (similar to a tent), rather than an entire board that can be walked on?
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They go along the tarp, I would assume they are just the fountains nozzles pressing up against the tarp
 
Dan12345 said:
I would want Toxicator to estop if it’s spinning too many times than is expected! Might be a sign of a break not working perfectly
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I hadn't really thought about it until now, but I suppose that Toxicator is different from some other flat rides (such as Submission) because it relies on a 'swinging' motion that varies depending upon the weight of the riders on board, which might be why Toxicator can't always accurately predict how its spinning motion will behave?
 
Would imagine more because Ripsaw likely had an option to put into manual mode that German fairground operators love.

Bit like how you could set Black Buccaneer to "swing without time" when you were being lazy and wanted to stay in the ops cabin for a bit longer.
 
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