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Travellers Day Scarefest

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AT86 said:
I’m not going over this with you again. I don’t have the energy.
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Glad you're not because your logic makes no sense. If people are known to have visited and been an issue in the past ban them simple as that. They should follow the rules like everyone else
 
it’s not logic Ethan. It is discrimination by law (I do it, so I know - but even if you don’t it’s common sense). It is also morally questionable as well, and I feel like you just need to take in what everyone is saying instead of ignoring it and bringing the same point up year upon year. It seems pointless going over it again, because we never get anywhere.
 
Ethan said:
So you're saying it's morally wrong to ban a group typically known for causing issues and trouble. The way people have described their behaviour and the chaos of visiting when they're there, people clearly agree that they are a lot of hastle
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Ethan said:
Glad you're not because your logic makes no sense. If people are known to have visited and been an issue in the past ban them simple as that. They should follow the rules like everyone else
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Do you remember that day you went on the Internet and told everyone you were a racist? Wow.

For the hard of understanding...

I am gong to imagine you are an 11 year old straight white male. Just a guess. If you are not then change every reference to 11 year old straight white male to whatever you identify as.

Now imagine you go to Thorpe park with a few of your 11 year old straight white male mates. You're impeccably behaved. You don't even buy fastrack.

While you are there another group of 11 year old straight white males are on park. You don't know them, you've never met them, if you met them you wouldn't like them.

That other group of 11 year old straight white males misbehave; they push in to queues, start a fight and are generally abusive to everyone.

The park thinks, well we can't have this. They kick out that group and then decide to find all the other 11 year old straight white males on park and kick them out too, to stop it happening again.

That's you. You are kicked out, you can not go back, ever. The park say if you don't like it you should have kept all those other 11 year old straight white males under control even though you have got nothing at all to do with them.

How do you feel about that? Not fair, is it? That's what you are arguing for.
 
AT86 said:
This would be wandering into the realms of Indirect Discrimination. If said clothing rules would put those with a protected characteristic (such as Travellers) at a disadvantage, even if it was applied to all guests - it’s still illegal.
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I didn’t say the clothing had anything to do with travellers, it was just intended as an example of a rule that places do use to exclude certain groups. Many nightclubs have no sportswear rules and on match days some pubs ban those in football shirts. As long as everyone wearing that item is banned it’s fine, as soon as it becomes only one race and someone else wearing the same outfit is let in then it is Illegal.
 
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jon81uk said:
I didn’t say the clothing had anything to do with travellers, it was just intended as an example of a rule that places do use to exclude certain groups. Many nightclubs have no sportswear rules and on match days some pubs ban those in football shirts. As long as everyone wearing that item is banned it’s fine, as soon as it becomes only one race and someone else wearing the same outfit is let in then it is l
Illegal.
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I think you may have quoted the wrong post.
 
The park cannot simply ban all travellers from entering the park. That’s blanket discrimination based on a key characteristic, which isn’t allowed in this day and age (or even if it isn’t technically illegal, it’s arguably not politically correct).

Even putting aside the substantial ethical issues; it would also be incredibly hard to enforce effectively. How can you possibly tell if someone is a traveller before they enter? You can’t ban certain surnames (not everyone with a certain type of surname is a traveller, and not all travellers have a certain type of surname), and you also can’t ban certain clothing items or similar (not all people wearing certain clothing are travellers, and not all travellers wear the same clothing). You simply cannot enforce it without leaning upon prejudices and presumptions, which are incredibly risky to make.

I’d also argue that it would be unfair to the vast majority of the travelling community, who I’m sure behave in a perfectly pleasant manner and follow all rules, to ostracise them all just because a minority do not follow the rules. Being ostracised or excluded just because you’re different from the majority of people isn’t nice, and I think that’s an important thing to remember when talking about the travelling community (or any other minority group, for that matter).

In terms of how to deal with the minority who do break the rules; I think it’s a tough tightrope for the park to walk. There’s a very fine line between discipline and discrimination in a situation like this, so I think the best thing the park can do is just put as many safeguards into place as possible and hope for the best. Any sort of measure that prohibits entry for particular groups or people is asking for trouble, in my opinion; not all travellers are rule-breakers, and not all rule-breakers are travellers.
 
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I must say, I missed this annual debate last year.

For what it's worth, my children go to school right next to a traveller camp. Most of the traveling children are lovely and my son has had one of them round for tea. They're friends. One of the great things about kids is, they're born blind to discrimination and tend to just see people for how they act and behave rather than where they come from.

The Mrs has a surname which was actually on the infamous Pontins banned list. She's never set foot inside Ireland, grew up in a house to a working class Somerset family and has never stolen anything or abused anyone in her entire life. But it she tried to book a Pontins "holiday" (which I'm not sure why anyone would want to) a few years ago she potentially wouldn't have been allowed to because a company broke the law and decided it was a good idea to discriminate against people based on preconceived out right prejudice.

When this comes up most years, it doesn't take long for someone to make the blunt argument of just simply stereotyping people and jobs a good 'un.

There's clearly a problem that needs to be solved, but casual racism won't provide the solution.
 
I'm all for banning people who wear socks with sandals and I don't care if it's discriminatory, they need to learn.

As for the traveller's, I think the park is doing as much as they realistically can. If people kick off, ban those people, but they can't ban everyone by association.
 
Jb85 said:
The last 4 times I've been I've landed traveller's day. This year I'm taking my boys so want to avoid it if I can
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I’d probably suggest going in September or November then just to be safe, you really don’t want to make it 5 out of 5.
 
Update from Fright Nights, the Sunday was absolutely fine. Saw a few groups of them but none seemed to be causing any trouble, and they definitely were not there en masse. I think it really made a difference going really early in the month. A very successful weekend!

Counting down till Scarefest now...
 
This topic of discussion definitely is just borderline racist, no matter what your perspective of the issue is. 2022 people, unless TS is actually Tory Street =D.

EDIT - removed borderline, it just is.
 
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