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UK politics general discussion

Interestingly, there’s been a new development with Johnson’s supposed involvement in Partygate; sources are not only saying that was he present at the leaving party for Lee Cain, his former press secretary, in 2020, but that he actually led the celebrations and hosted the party: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ns-prime-minister-angela-rayner-b2059482.html

I’m not sure what difference that would make, admittedly, but it’s a Partygate development nonetheless.
 
That said, it won't be until after the full Sue Gray report is released. We already know that won't be until the Met investigation is completed.
 
Matt N said:
In a first for any sitting prime minister, Boris Johnson is to face an investigation into whether he misled Parliament by the Privileges Committee after a Labour motion for one passed with a huge majority: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en..._62616a05e4b0e900dcd303d7?ncid=APPLENEWS00001
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And there is no credible opposition? Makes sense.
Anyway this is good and bad news. Good because it holds Boris to account even more bad because it tarnishes the reputation of a great office of state and of the mother of parliaments. It's not a good look internationally at all, but it's the right thing to do.
 
Alsty said:
That said, it won't be until after the full Sue Gray report is released. We already know that won't be until the Met investigation is completed.
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He'll be gone after the elections on May 6th is my expectation at this point, unless those elections go much better for them than expected.

The combo of a poor election cycle, more FPNs, senior backbenchers on both wings of the party and a committee which despite having a 4-2 Tory majority could well find the PM knowingly misled parliament (which in turn could lead to a recall)... the optics are terrible and can only really worsen.

The fact he hasn't already is probably a consequence of them having no strong leadership candidates, other than Jeremy Hunt who, lets face it, is not going to be a vote-winner in the marginal seats - Steve Baker could possibly do better there but it'd be a huge risk of pushing the Home Counties, Norfolk and similar constituencies further in to the reach of the Lib Dems.
 
There has been an increasing furore surrounding a social gathering that Sir Keir Starmer was part of in April 2021, prior to the local elections, where he was seen with a beer and a number of other Labour colleagues.

Sir Keir has said that this was a work break following a day of work at the local elections, but many are not buying his defence, with the Conservative Party requesting a full police investigation and The Sun accusing him of “gross hypocrisy”: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18452477/keir-starmer-excuses-curry-beer-lockdown-bash/

What are our thoughts?
 
Matt N said:
There has been an increasing furore surrounding a social gathering that Sir Keir Starmer was part of in April 2021, prior to the local elections, where he was seen with a beer and a number of other Labour colleagues.

Sir Keir has said that this was a work break following a day of work at the local elections, but many are not buying his defence, with the Conservative Party requesting a full police investigation and The Sun accusing him of “gross hypocrisy”: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18452477/keir-starmer-excuses-curry-beer-lockdown-bash/

What are our thoughts?
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It's clearly not on the same scale as the Downing Street parties, but appears to be roughly the same thing.

I hope you are not surprised about a politician being hypocritical and generally dodgy?
 
Matt N said:
Sir Keir has said that this was a work break following a day of work at the local elections, but many are not buying his defence, with the Conservative Party requesting a full police investigation and The Sun accusing him of “gross hypocrisy”: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18452477/keir-starmer-excuses-curry-beer-lockdown-bash/

What are our thoughts?
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Tory mudslinging when there's local elections on? Surely not.

Police have already said they don't believe any offences took place.
 
The question has to be did his actions directly break or contravene the laws at the time?

April 2021 wasn't a lockdown stage. So were any laws actually broken at the time?

The confusing and conflicting rules we had in place over the time probably surmounts to half of the issues.

Then of course remember that we're having local elections, and this whole "all politicians are just as bad as each other" nonsense comes right into the fore when those in charge are concerned about losing power.

The sad thing is that it often works.
 
As @Alsty has said the police have looked at this, they've concluded that it didn't break the law. Having dinner while working wasn't against the rules. Should have he had a beer? Probably not and I don't get this culture in politics of drinking whenever you want which would t be accepted in most jobs.

Sir kier didn't break the rules and so there is no problem here. Its frustrating that the media seem to still be supporting boris, clutching at straws to try and find something Labour have done wrong.
 
What a waste of money but hopefully a full investigation will shut people up. If he is guilty then I will be very surprised but happy to admit I'm wrong.
 
Well, that was a bit of a drubbing wasn't it? A few takeaways for me:

1. Although it was only around 1/3 of local councils up for grabs yesterday, if demographic trends that we saw were to relate to national polls, if there was a GE tomorrow Labour could only hope to be the biggest party in a hung parliament. This is with a Tory Prime Minister who is deeply unpopular, likewise his government; seen as corrupt and law breaking and at the helm of one of the biggest cost of living crisis in most of our lifetimes. A crises that could kill the poorest people this winter; people who Labour were founded to protect.

2. Whilst Labour are continuing to make progress amongst the urban middle classes, they've made very little headway in their old heartlands. They lost Hull for Christ's sake! Pathetic. If Labour can win over middle England liberals then great, but where's the old school middle class they're supposed to represent? Many of them voting for clown Boris, LD, Green or simply abstaining it seems.

3. Labour are still no where near landing a finger on the SNP. The SNP are more of a blocker to a Labour GE victory than the Tories are. Despite the SNP being in national government in Scotland for many years and a majority being polled as against Independence. Clearly many of the people of Scotland still really don't like Labour.

4. Starmer called for Boris to resign immediately after the cops were called in. Yet now they're investigating him, it's all a load of old pony about the local pubs being closed for food after working late. This is the man who wants to be Prime Minister by the way. Regardless of BJ being proved to be what we all knew as corrupt in the end (as if anyone didn't know), Starmer still wanted his head at this stage in the precedings against him. Use hindsight all you like, Starmer wanted BJ to resign the moment cops were called in and has not done so himself.

5. Many Tory MP's don't like Boris. Many Tory members don't like Boris. Many seasoned Tory voters don't like Boris. Yet the main opposition party still can't make much headway and looks almost certain to not win anywhere a majority in the next election.

Starmer should put away the party poppers left over from the Mcdonall and Corbyn election loosing celebrations and do the right thing and resign. Labour has lost touch with the people it was founded to represent and all their needs and desires and is therefore no longer a credible opposition. If they can't give a bloody nose to this government then they are not fit to hold office themselves.

Labour needs a reboot. And neither "Good Old Days" Corbyn or Inanimate Wood Block Starmer are the answer.
 
Local elections, governing party makes a number of losses, absolutely routine.
Labour needs a boot...up the bottom.
The night of the long knives, starring the old Tory grandees, can't be long off now.
 
Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner have both confirmed they will stand down if they are issued with a fine, although they do not believe they have broken any laws.

This basically puts Boris Johnson in a dangerous position (again). Either:
  • Keir and others did not break the law, in which case Boris Johnson is back on the hook because he's been fined for breaking the law and the opposition leaders were not; or
  • Keir and others did break the law, in which case they will step down and it reinforces the lack of integrity of Boris Johnson and the Conservative party for not doing the right thing too.
No wonder Jacob Reece-Mogg was cagey when he was asked yesterday if Keir should resign if he broke the law. Imagine having some political dynamite like this that you could use against the opposition but being unable to use it.
 
Alsty said:
Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner have both confirmed they will stand down if they are issued with a fine, although they do not believe they have broken any laws.

This basically puts Boris Johnson in a dangerous position (again). Either:
  • Keir and others did not break the law, in which case Boris Johnson is back on the hook because he's been fined for breaking the law and the opposition leaders were not; or
  • Keir and others did break the law, in which case they will step down and it reinforces the lack of integrity of Boris Johnson and the Conservative party for not doing the right thing too.
No wonder Jacob Reece-Mogg was cagey when he was asked yesterday if Keir should resign if he broke the law. Imagine having some political dynamite like this that you could use against the opposition but being unable to use it.
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Yes Starmer has played a very clever move here, he also clearly doesn’t think he broke the law, personally I very much doubt he did either but even if he did it will put Boris in an even harder position.
 
If he resigns (which I think he should've done already as he was calling for Boris to as soon as the cops were called in) then I think it will only put temporary pressure on the PM. Boris will do what he usually does, just ride out the calls to go until the focus shifts to the Labour Party leadership election.

Neither scenario is good for Labour either. Extremely unlikely Boris will go I think, but if there's a Labour leadership contest, there's really not enough time I feel to recover the party under a new leader going into the next GE.

I don't think Starmer will get a fine however. I think he's being briefed against from the inside and that's where the "new evidence" that Durham cops are investigating has come from.
 
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