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UK politics general discussion

I won’t lie, I do increasingly wonder where the dividing line between Starmer’s Labour Party and the incumbent Tory government is other than them simply not being the Tories.

I could be wrong, but from where I’m standing, it seems as though Starmer is toeing the Tory line on many issues. He goes on about immigration and “stopping the boats” in exactly the same way as Sunak does, he talks about needing to “exploit the opportunities of Brexit” and is vehemently against further EU integration in the same way as Sunak is, he has ruled out the reversal of many controversial Tory policy initiatives, he has refused to increase taxation and has said that tax is too high in the same way as Sunak has, he has refused to commit to increased public spending in the same way as Sunak… from my perspective, I don’t see an awful lot differentiating Starmer’s Labour Party from the current Conservative government other than the fact that they aren’t the current Conservative government.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure that strategy will work for them, as discontent with the incumbent government is pretty high. I also get why Starmer isn’t being radically left-wing; Jeremy Corbyn was radically left-wing at the last election, and it scared the electorate away from Labour (although whether that was the main cause of Corbyn’s 2019 failure is debatable).

However, I’d be lying if I said I was particularly inspired by Starmer’s offering at present. I will vote for the Labour Party at the next election, as I want to vote against the Conservatives and Labour have the best chance of beating them in my seat. However, I do wish that Starmer would be a little bit bolder in unveiling some left-wing policy initiatives to differentiate Labour from the Conservatives more tangibly and show a bit more ambition to make some real change in the country.

Intriguingly, Starmer has also now removed his 10 pledges from his run for the Labour leadership from his website…
 
What an odd thing to do? All he has to do is sit on his hands and not offend anyone and he has himself a landslide victory.

It's like he's trying to fight the battles of yesteryear. Trying to dominate the center ground, distancing himself and the party further away from Corbynism and make Labour the default vote.

But he's already achieved this. Sunak presses the Corbyn and "union paymasters" panic button only when he's desperate and these attacks always fall flat and look stupid. Left leaning voters in Scotland are returning to Labour, where they desperately need to get some seats back, in protest at a scandal hit SNP. Labour are successfully holding back the old left vote spilt issue in Lib Dem 2 way battleground marginals. There's very little the Tories have left in their arsenal to bring people back out to bite in the shires. Labour have pretty much won the battle with the Tories.

The best way to open up Labour internal wounds is to heap praise on Blair. The best gift you can give the SNP is to heap praise on Thatcher in Scotland. Labour have problems on the left, not the right. Yeah, there's still the odd knuckle dragger who completely ignores how bad the current government is doing "laBouR wuD maK FinGs eVan WOrsT". But Labour's current problems are that they're not seen as radical enough.

Hamza Yusuf must now be thinking that Christmas has come early. Ed Davey must be thinking that they don't need to further distance themselves from the coalition years as Starmer has just parked his party to the right of the Lib Dems in areas where they desperately need to evoke the image of the Kennedy years. Crackpot conspiracy theorists like Lee Anderson must feel like a life vest has been thrown at them whilst Starmer alienates the old heartland voters by pegging his party to "the establishment". GBNews viewing figures will probably double to 8 people per day as disaffected voters search for a home.

Who is advising this guy? 2 rediclous gaffs in just a matter of weeks.
 
I’m really impressed how everyone has read a headline and not actually read what he said…

He never actually credited thatcher, he said she had an identity on British politics as she tried to push entrepreneurship, in the same paragraph he mentioned other PM’s of various backgrounds and how they had an ideology.

Not trying to make people like Starmer, just would like people to actually read.
 
Matt N said:
he has ruled out the reversal of many controversial Tory policy initiatives, he has refused to increase taxation and has said that tax is too high in the same way as Sunak has, he has refused to commit to increased public spending in the same way as Sunak
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It is worth saying, this is broadly a misrepresentation formulated by the press. i.e. if the opposition won't commit to something right now they've ruled it out.

In reality, the Labour Party, much like the rest of us, don't have full oversight of the country's current financial situation. Admittedly, there's an argument that the incompetence of the current administration probably means they don't have as good a grasp as they should, but they still have a clearer view of the current state of things then the opposition.

There are quite a lot of the current government's policies that will need quite careful planning to undo, so it makes a lot of sense for opposition parties to trade carefully around what promises they make until they can fully assess what can be done and by when.
 
Well if the Tories are going further to the right why not Labour?

Not smart to associate with Thatcher in any way. Especially for a Labour leader.
 
Benzin said:
Not smart to associate with Thatcher in any way. Especially for a Labour leader.
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In the forever changing lens of history though, assessing it by modern standards, she's now being pitched as making green and positive changes in politics classes by shutting down those coal mines. A little bonkers.
 
Dave said:
Not trying to make people like Starmer, just would like people to actually read.
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I had read it. He hadn't been backed into any corner, he had literally the whole of the history of politics to draw from, his very first mention was Thatcher. I personally don't disagree with him (as the Son of a southern banker at the time rather than a northern coal worker I suppose I wouldnt!), but considering just how devicive she is to so many it's just a bizarre thing to do.
 
Dave said:
I’m really impressed how everyone has read a headline and not actually read what he said…

He never actually credited thatcher, he said she had an identity on British politics as she tried to push entrepreneurship, in the same paragraph he mentioned other PM’s of various backgrounds and how they had an ideology.

Not trying to make people like Starmer, just would like people to actually read.
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I hope you're not including me in that, I did read the whole thing. I've read and listened to a lot of what Starmer has said recently and I think I have a pretty good understanding of what he's about.

But everyone will read a headline and not read what he said. That's the point. The headline will be Starmer praises Thatcher and Blair in a Tory newspaper. Notice how his comments about Atlee, for instance, will be overlooked. Yusuf has already lept on it, so have those crazy people behind Momentum. Therefore this is a PR gaff and is stupid.

He's struggling to get his message over that he intends to be quite a transformational PM that won't be hamstrung by the politics of old. I understand this as it's a similar message to what he's been saying in his interviews with Tony Blair and James O'Brien. But not only is that message not cutting through, he also feels, for some reason, that there's some toxicity to remove from the Labour brand for traditional Tory voters.

But the polls have been consistent for well over a year. The country is crying out for stability and competency more than anything. He just simply doesn't need to do this. Keep the message consistent and don't cock anything up should be his game plan for the next year.
 
Out of interest, who exactly are Momentum and why do they hold so much weight within the Labour Party?

Are they a faction of the Labour Party, a bit like the ERG within the Conservative Party?
 
Matt N said:
Out of interest, who exactly are Momentum and why do they hold so much weight within the Labour Party?

Are they a faction of the Labour Party, a bit like the ERG within the Conservative Party?
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It’s the left wing campaign group that represents the far left. It was the main voice behind Jeremy Corbyn.
 
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