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UK Politics General Discussion
Alsty
TS Member
So that people like Farage can point to them and say "Look, I told you it was another immigrant".
Crimes committed by immigrants play perfectly into the Reform playbook, so it's natural he'd like the evidence to come out and say it.
Squiggs
TS Team
The important thing to remember that if Nigel Farage doesn't know the ethnicity of a suspect, then that means he can't make a big political song and dance about it. And, if you can only make a song and dance about folk actually convicted, that results in a much smaller song and dance.
That's almost entirely why it's important*.
*In this case, the definition of 'important' is being stretched to its very limits.
That's almost entirely why it's important*.
*In this case, the definition of 'important' is being stretched to its very limits.
DiogoJ42
TS Member
Which just proves that when they don't announce it...........
DistortAMG
TS Member
Exactly this. People can choose to acknowledge it or not, but the reality is, tensions are quite high in the UK right now over immigration. Mostly a minority with a big voice.
People very quickly jump to conclusions based on false information and conjecture. Anything to ease those tensions is a good measure, given the state of the UK right now.
There was a BBC article on Facebook the other day, announcing that 150 or so migrants tragically lost their lives, when their boat sank near Yemen and well away from the UK. The comments section is quite frankly, disgusting. It almost makes me ashamed to be British. But what is does highlight quite well, is these said tensions that are in the UK right now.
Benzin
TS Member
As per the riots last year though, not doing so would've caused even more of a storm because people are idiots.
Of course though those people are usually quiet when it turns out the convicted is white. Its classic subtle racism in the terminology used in incidents across the world. A "lone wolf" shooter for example.
Labour are just trying to pander to the right wing who will never vote for them.
DiogoJ42
TS Member
When put that way, you kinda have to see why some people who voted Brexit on that basis might be a little bit annoyed by the current situation. The thing they wanted to stop has only got worse.
Is it any wonder people get driven to extreme politics when the regular lot dismiss any concerns with cries of "isms"?
Is it any wonder people get driven to extreme politics when the regular lot dismiss any concerns with cries of "isms"?
DiogoJ42
TS Member
No argument on that from me.
.... but isn't that every politician ever?
jon81uk
TS Member
Yet Brexit is never able to solve that really. Yes it stopped the Polish and similar EU immigration, but leaving the EU won't make any difference to immigration from outside the EU. Farage spoke mainly about Romanians I think and people assumed it would stop everyone coming.
Nature abhors a vacuum, and the internet is ready to fill it. Trolls and racists will use it to their own gain (political or otherwise). I don't personally see an issue with disclosing the nationality/immigration status of an arrested person - if anything it helps keep the racists in their cages.
pluk
TS Member
There is so much I want to say on this subject, with real examples, but do not feel I can...
To word something carefully. There are sooo many hostal type locations holding predominantly (but certainly not exclusively) white british occupants who are known offenders, often post release on licence, and the offending rates from those locations can be notable. Riots about this do not occur.
The recent disturbance were off the back of one individual being charged with one offence. Riot ensues.
It does not take much to see the differentiating factor here. The behaviour of the mob is inexcusable and any attempt at justification is easily demonstrably flawed.
I am vehemently against the identication of offenders pre conviction. I think it is wrong and a shameful aspect of the current criminal justice system that i am part of. You dont need to give out too many identifiers such as location and ethnicity to, well, identify someone.
Highlighting the immigration status of suspects as a matter of course can only lead to negativity and the weaponosing of the data, which obviously won't be viewed within the context of the wider data showing what a miniscule percentage of suspects are made up of illigal immigrants. On the other side of that, when something looks like it might be a terrorist related incident confirming it isn't can be very sensible and reassuring to society, so if the ethnicity and/or nationality of the suspects helps support that message then on those occasions it could well be justifiable to disclose. With the massive cavite that plenty of UK nationals have committed terrorism offences!
To word something carefully. There are sooo many hostal type locations holding predominantly (but certainly not exclusively) white british occupants who are known offenders, often post release on licence, and the offending rates from those locations can be notable. Riots about this do not occur.
The recent disturbance were off the back of one individual being charged with one offence. Riot ensues.
It does not take much to see the differentiating factor here. The behaviour of the mob is inexcusable and any attempt at justification is easily demonstrably flawed.
I am vehemently against the identication of offenders pre conviction. I think it is wrong and a shameful aspect of the current criminal justice system that i am part of. You dont need to give out too many identifiers such as location and ethnicity to, well, identify someone.
Highlighting the immigration status of suspects as a matter of course can only lead to negativity and the weaponosing of the data, which obviously won't be viewed within the context of the wider data showing what a miniscule percentage of suspects are made up of illigal immigrants. On the other side of that, when something looks like it might be a terrorist related incident confirming it isn't can be very sensible and reassuring to society, so if the ethnicity and/or nationality of the suspects helps support that message then on those occasions it could well be justifiable to disclose. With the massive cavite that plenty of UK nationals have committed terrorism offences!
GJMarshy
TS Member
Honestly I think you could blame 80% of today's political issues squarely on Twitter and YouTube. (TikTok to a lesser degree given the lower youth vote turnout)
In the past couple of weeks I've been inundated with blue-tick pot stirrers. Usually long-form posts targeting one or a group of people, then the comments are full of affirmation of said thing. It all re-enforces. Even onlookers who don't care for that kind of politics get drowned in the negativity and outrage such that you're overwhelmed.
YouTube is getting in on it now. Same thing. Clickbaity thumbnails "Britain is failing because of X" "The state of X in the UK" it never ends. The worst part is it's almost impossible to avoid without never using said services. Services designed specifically to keep you engaged. It's become so toxic that personally I've had to step away from YouTube and Twitter, even if I only follow accounts I care about. (Urbanism, coasters, travel, music etc) You can't avoid the madness without switching toff completely.
If you sampled the everyday person on the street, and don't know... let's say in Stafford - I'm pretty sure their position on UK politics wouldn't not be what politicians think. Vocal minority shouts the loudest. The algorithm feeds it.
I don't understand why we're seemingly creating a future no-one wants just to appease a perceived social media sentiment, which is actually far more akin to a mob.
In the past couple of weeks I've been inundated with blue-tick pot stirrers. Usually long-form posts targeting one or a group of people, then the comments are full of affirmation of said thing. It all re-enforces. Even onlookers who don't care for that kind of politics get drowned in the negativity and outrage such that you're overwhelmed.
YouTube is getting in on it now. Same thing. Clickbaity thumbnails "Britain is failing because of X" "The state of X in the UK" it never ends. The worst part is it's almost impossible to avoid without never using said services. Services designed specifically to keep you engaged. It's become so toxic that personally I've had to step away from YouTube and Twitter, even if I only follow accounts I care about. (Urbanism, coasters, travel, music etc) You can't avoid the madness without switching toff completely.
If you sampled the everyday person on the street, and don't know... let's say in Stafford - I'm pretty sure their position on UK politics wouldn't not be what politicians think. Vocal minority shouts the loudest. The algorithm feeds it.
I don't understand why we're seemingly creating a future no-one wants just to appease a perceived social media sentiment, which is actually far more akin to a mob.
pluk
TS Member
I've seen that story, and with no knowledge of the case the account given simply does not stack up. It's almost like it os one sided clickbait designed to enrage...
Squiggs
TS Team
Of course, in this case it is likely that the trowel in question is one of these: https://www.niwaki.com/hori-hori/#P00442-7 and reports also say he was wearing another knife and a sickle on his belt. No doubt all very innocently in a gardening context, but you can kinda see where the confusion came from if he was wondering down the street.
