UK Politics General Discussion

[pluk]

Just seen that a gardener has been arrested, held for 12 hours, denied access to a lawyer, and cautioned.... for the crime of carrying a trowel home from his allotment.

Putin: please nuke us.

I've seen that story, and with no knowledge of the case the account given simply does not stack up. It's almost like it os one sided clickbait designed to enrage...

 

[Squiggs]

Of course, in this case it is likely that the trowel in question is one of these: https://www.niwaki.com/hori-hori/#P00442-7 and reports also say he was wearing another knife and a sickle on his belt. No doubt all very innocently in a gardening context, but you can kinda see where the confusion came from if he was wondering down the street.

 

[DiogoJ42]

I've seen that story, and with no knowledge of the case the account given simply does not stack up. It's almost like it os one sided clickbait designed to enrage...

It's nothing personal mate, but I fully believe we are now in the early stages of a police state.
I know not all cops are [redacted]s...... But I do know someone who quit the force because he refused to be a part of what he was ordered to do. They made no effort to stop him, after spending so much on his training. Almost as if they didn't want anyone who has a sense of morality?
(I shall say no more on that particular incident he told me about.)

 

[pluk]

It's nothing personal mate, but I fully believe we are now in the early stages of a police state.
I know not all cops are [redacted]s...... But I do know someone who quit the force because he refused to be a part of what he was ordered to do. They made no effort to stop him, after spending so much on his training. Almost as if they didn't want anyone who has a sense of morality?
(I shall say no more on that particular incident he told me about.)

Hmmm. Intriguing, but... odd. Policing is not a job, you are not employed. You take the oath and hold powers to use without fear or favour. You can't really be told to do anything much; an unlawful order cannot be enforced. If what they were ordered to do was legal, well than that's the law and is to be upheld whether you agree with it personally or not, if it was not lawful then it can be ignored and you get on with your day, and if you dont know the law then as a police officer it's time to learn! That law extends not only to the laws of the land, but also police powers.

There are laws I dont personally agree with, but I will uphold them, and there's nothing that's so outrageous (I can't think of anything with any equivalence to the old homosexuality laws, for example) that I can't do so without a clear conscience. All I can do is act with some sense of proportionality.

There can be pressures, from inside and outside the police, but it always comes back to without fear or favour. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an officer with any amount of experience that hasn't given someone of rank a good hard 'no' at some point. I certainly have.

And no, I've never heard of the job trying to dissuade anyone from leaving, that's not really how it works. It's not a business and mostly isn’t run like one. The last thing you want is someone working there that doesn't want to do it, that's not compatible with the level of self sufficiency that's required.

EDIT: that's not to say I'm dumb enough to think that policing, and police officers, are perfect. There's plenty of incompetence about in every walknof life. We are a hell of a long way from a police state though, and I dont think if we were heading that way the plight of a bloke on an alotment that admitted an offence and accepted a caution woukd be the sign we needed to look out for.

 

[DiogoJ42]

I respect you, I understand what you have said, and I have no wish to get in to an argument with you.
But no-matter how honourable any LEO's [is that term too American? It feels too American] intentions are, it is a job, and you are employed.

But anyway, the real beef here is not with the frontline workers who are "only following orders" [do NOT read anything in to that!!], it's with the clowns who make these rules from their ivory towers, who have not set foot in the real world since I was in school.

(For anyone who roleplays, why do I feel like this is how all arguments over "alignment" start? )

Oh , and just for balance, I've spent a couple of hours this evening watching YT compilations of morons who FAFO with police, and get what they bloody deserve.