UK Politics General Discussion

[rob666]

Because traditionally the Tories support a minimum of interference from the state wherever possible.
Laissez faire and all that...pardon the french.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Why is it only Labour who national ID seems to appeal to?

Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

The primary catalyst behind Labour's original proposal for a National ID Card was the heightened concern over terrorism in the wake of 9/11, and the 7/7 London bombings in 2005. Blair argued that a secure, biometric-based identification system would make it more difficult for terrorists to operate anonymously.

Blair also contended that the cards would:

• Combat illegal immigration: By making it easier to verify an individual's right to live and work in the UK.
• Tackle benefit fraud: By providing a secure way to confirm a person's identity when accessing public funds.
• Reduce crime: By making it harder for criminals to use false identities.
• Improve the efficiency of public services: By creating a single, reliable method of identification for accessing services like the NHS and voting.

Sound familiar?

The Conservatives of 2006 are a very different beast to the Conservatives of 2025. They were concerned about infringements on individual liberty and a suspicion of an overly powerful central government. The prospect of a vast government database holding personal information on every individual was also a central point of contention.

Back to your point though, Chris Philip (the Shadow Home Secretary) and Kemi Badenoch have both expressed that they are considering the introduction of compulsory digital ID cards, echoing some of the same arguments about tackling illegal immigration.

Tories will consider compulsory digital ID cards

Chris Philp says scheme could make it easier for people to prove who they are when using taxpayer-funded services such as NHS

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Dave]

Has there ever been an ID card plan that has included mandatory carry?

If the police have reasonable grounds they can demand you attend a police station with appropriate ID within a set period (for instance a driving offence and you don’t have your licence on you). Why wouldn’t a future ID card not be the same.

If there was a requirement for an ID card that only confirmed ID and access to services that isn’t required to be carried at all times then I have no major beef with that, and plenty of other liberal democracies have them.

 

[rob666]

My only photo id is my season pass for the Beach.
Been so for a couple of decades.
There has been no issue in life where I have needed any further id other than my bank card.
When the solicitor for an estate matter insisted on a second photo id...he got the season pass for the year before.
We got away with it.
I have no issue with a basic id card, but, again, it will do little to solve the immigration issue currently raging as a moral panic in the press.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Has there ever been an ID card plan that has included mandatory carry?

The original plans for Blair's National Identity Cards included mandatory carry. By the time that the Identity Cards Act 2006 was finalised, mandatory carry was absent and specifically precluded.

Mandatory carry was felt redundant when instead a person would have their biometrics scanned and checked against the National Identity Register. The original intention was to have the National Identity Register connected to the Police National Computer, but this was later rejected by the Lords.

The National Registration Act 1939 did require mandatory carry and presentation, however.

 

[Deleted member 14589]

Has there ever been an ID card plan that has included mandatory carry?

If the police have reasonable grounds they can demand you attend a police station with appropriate ID within a set period (for instance a driving offence and you don’t have your licence on you). Why wouldn’t a future ID card not be the same.

If there was a requirement for an ID card that only confirmed ID and access to services that isn’t required to be carried at all times then I have no major beef with that, and plenty of other liberal democracies have them.

The Labour government are pushing through a MANDATORY SMARTPHONE APP with NO ALTERNATIVE. So unless you leave your smartphone at home you will have the ID with you at all times. The app will be tied to your device, so if you change your device you will have to jump thought the inevitable government hoops to get it moved.

If you don't own a compatibly smartphone you will have to buy one by law since the app is mandatory for anyone allowed to live/work in UK.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

The Labour government are pushing through a MANDATORY SMARTPHONE APP with NO ALTERNATIVE. So unless you leave your smartphone at home you will have the ID with you at all times. The app will be tied to your device, so if you change your device you will have to jump thought the inevitable government hoops to get it moved.

If you don't own a compatibly smartphone you will have to buy one by law since the app is mandatory for anyone allowed to live/work in UK.

No, they're not. The discussion has recently popped up again, after suggestions from a "think tank", but there aren't any proposals, let alone legislation.

We already have a digital identity service in the UK, for foreign nationals. Each are issued with a share code. It is not device dependant, it does not require a smart phone.

Incidentally, it is worth noting that the Conservative Leader and Shadow Home Secretary have both recently voiced their support for digital identity cards.

I am generally against the idea of a national identity card, given that we have a patchwork of existing systems which already works, but your stance takes it to a whole new extreme and generally undermines the discussion.

Please don't make things up.

 

[East Coast Mariner]

The whole concept of 15-minute cities is that you have all (or most) of your local amenities within a 15 minute walk or bike ride (school, shops, leisure and transport). It’s a theoretical framework for city planning. It has nothing to do with restricting your rights or where you can go or do.

Don’t blindly drink the kool aid, do your research…

Yes. They always tell us the truth, don't they?

An ID Card would be no different from having a passport or driving licence on your person. Or any other form of card that proves your identity, such as an Access Card.

You don't need any of those just to exist, though. A driving licence is for driving and a passport is for going abroad.

Since when have we been in China???
There are many things to be vigilant about at the moment...one is the spouting of absolute cobblers on the internet.
15 minute cities indeed, says who exactly...apart from one planning theorist called Carlos Moreno?

Rather rude of you.

Do any of you remember that time a few years ago when governments around the world told us there was a deadly virus? You know, the one that they weren't scared of themselves. Is it my imagination, or did they try to make us have "vaccine passports", so you could prove you had injected a certain substance in order to attend music gigs etc? I'm not 100% sure because I refused to use one or attend anywhere that implemented it. And then, certain batches of that substance turned out to be absolutely lethal, and yet was continued to be rolled out worldwide?

But no, you left-wingers carry on thinking the State would never plot against us.

 

[AT86]

Christ, the tin foil has been flying off the shelves.

 

[East Coast Mariner]

Christ, the tin foil has been flying off the shelves.

Better than wearing a blindfold.

 

[Tom]

But no, you left-wingers carry on thinking the State would never plot against us.

Are you familiar with Chairman Mao? Somewhat left wing and somewhat up for state control.

 

[rob666]

The Labour government are pushing through a MANDATORY SMARTPHONE APP with NO ALTERNATIVE. So unless you leave your smartphone at home you will have the ID with you at all times. The app will be tied to your device, so if you change your device you will have to jump thought the inevitable government hoops to get it moved.

If you don't own a compatibly smartphone you will have to buy one by law since the app is mandatory for anyone allowed to live/work in UK.

Two points here.
First...what is your source, as this is the first I have ever heard...and I very much smell brown stuff.
Secondly...some of us still do not own any mobile device, by choice, and the numbers are growing apparently.

...Rather rude of you...

Sometimes the truth has to be faced my friend.
Please give your evidence or sources for the statements you say, or I am happy to continue calling them what they are.

 

[Dave]

The Labour government are pushing through a MANDATORY SMARTPHONE APP with NO ALTERNATIVE. So unless you leave your smartphone at home you will have the ID with you at all times. The app will be tied to your device, so if you change your device you will have to jump thought the inevitable government hoops to get it moved.

If you don't own a compatibly smartphone you will have to buy one by law since the app is mandatory for anyone allowed to live/work in UK.

OK captain shouty, show me the white paper or policy document that show The Labour Government are doing that…

I will wait.

When you don’t find it you can maybe take some time to remember that not everything you read on social media is true.

 

[John]

Ugh, "15 minute city" conspiracy theories. I live in what could be described as a 15min city - I can walk to the shops, station, doctor, dentist, library, etc. There's a park one street over. Some of the Victorian streets are closed off to vehicles at one end in what would now be called low traffic neighbourhoods but it was done half a century ago because even back then people realised that having commuters cutting through residential areas is obviously a bad thing.

All in all, it's just a great place to live. The alternative is US-style endless suburban sprawl where you pretty much HAVE to drive if you want to leave your house and results in miles and miles of soulless retail parks lining 6 lane roads.

 

[Dave]

Do any of you remember that time a few years ago when governments around the world told us there was a deadly virus? You know, the one that they weren't scared of themselves. Is it my imagination, or did they try to make us have "vaccine passports", so you could prove you had injected a certain substance in order to attend music gigs etc? I'm not 100% sure because I refused to use one or attend anywhere that implemented it. And then, certain batches of that substance turned out to be absolutely lethal, and yet was continued to be rolled out worldwide?

But no, you left-wingers carry on thinking the State would never plot against us.

There have been no batches of the covid 19 vaccines that have proven to be lethal, that’s an online conspiracy theory.

As with all medications (and foods and supplements and topical creams both synthetic and natural) some people had side effects.

The one that has been most curious are heart problems in mostly young men, the trouble is the same heart problems where seen in young men who got Covid so we don’t know if it’s a side effect of the vaccine or that these peoples immune system response to the antigen (which is present in the virus and the vaccine) would be the same regardless of infection or vaccination.

As above stop believing everything you read on social media, yes vaccines have side effects, but pretty much every substance both synthetic and natural can cause a reaction in a human.

Finally the vaccine mandate was implemented by a right wing government (both in the UK and the USA), and you were not forced to be vaccinated, it’s just you didn’t need to jump through so many hoops if you where which in the middle of a pandemic seems fine. There was also a long debate about it just as there should be in a democracy.

As an aside left wing and right wing have nothing to do with science, or social issues, it refers to your economic opinion (right wing no government ownership, left wing state owned and all spectrums in between).

 

[East Coast Mariner]

There have been no batches of the covid 19 vaccines that have proven to be lethal, that’s an online conspiracy theory.

As with all medications (and foods and supplements and topical creams both synthetic and natural) some people had side effects.

The one that has been most curious are heart problems in mostly young men, the trouble is the same heart problems where seen in young men who got Covid so we don’t know if it’s a side effect of the vaccine or that these peoples immune system response to the antigen (which is present in the virus and the vaccine) would be the same regardless of infection or vaccination.

It is a conspiracy theory, yes, but that is no disqualification. Are you saying conspiracy theories cannot possibly be true? That the powerful do not conspire? It is all too easy when a chain of command is followed. The Dutch Government has already admitted it was NATO telling them what to do. You can be sure it was the same throughout the West.

As for the other points in this quote, you are quite simply wrong. Numerous independent scientists have confirmed bad batches. Look at the Danish and Swedish studies for one thing, or the findings of Spanish scientists La Quinta Columnas.

Finally the vaccine mandate was implemented by a right wing government (both in the UK and the USA), and you were not forced to be vaccinated, it’s just you didn’t need to jump through so many hoops if you where which in the middle of a pandemic seems fine. There was also a long debate about it just as there should be in a democracy.

It was implemented by the Tories, yes, and I wouldn't disagree with any criticism of them. I do not think Donald Trump can be much blamed, as the first one was authorised just after he left office. He also never fearmongered about the virus, nor would he have mandated them in any way. The "only" true mandate in the UK was for care workers, yes, but that alone was one mandate too many, and they would have kept going if the NHS workers hadn't stood up to them.

Hence my concern about Government overreach. It's happened recently, and we must remain vigilant.

As an aside left wing and right wing have nothing to do with science, or social issues, it refers to your economic opinion (right wing no government ownership, left wing state owned and all spectrums in between).

Fair enough, that was my weakest point. At the end of the day, authority is authority. Generally speaking, though, right-wingers tend to prefer Small Government, and left-wingers prefer Big Government. Thus, left-wingers tend to want to put themselves into a position where they have to trust the Government more.

 

[Benzin]

I would trust the government to deal with a pandemic better than say, anti-vaxxers, or most people just plucked off the street. That's kinda the point of democracy for the great unwashed to pick who we think would be suitable to be in charge.

Not that the Tories did a particularly good job at the initial dealing with the pandemic. Boris Johnson going to meet some of the initial victims then nearly dying was classic "fingers in ears" moment. Sending infected people back into care homes. Ordering dodgy PPE equipment from a mate. The half price meals in August. Some of the mistakes made were disgusting and idiotic at the time, much like some of Labour's actions.

I miss when the only conspiracy theories were lizard people are in government and flat Earth. And those things were treated with the contempt they deserve.

 

[Matt N]

Out of curiosity, why are 15 minute cities so contentious?

From what folks on here have described, it just sounds like sensible urban planning, no? I’d love to live somewhere where all of my necessary amenities were within a 15 minute walk!

I’d never have to drive again, and honestly, I’d love that; I only drive because I live in a rural area with poor public transport links and would be very impeded if I didn’t drive. I only got my driving license out of necessity; if I lived in even Gloucester, Cheltenham, Newport, Cardiff or Bristol, let alone one of the larger cities like London, Birmingham or Manchester, I absolutely wouldn’t have bothered.

I don’t know if I’m misinterpreting the definition, but I’d love a 15 minute city based on what some have described!

 

[Dave]

It is a conspiracy theory, yes, but that is no disqualification. Are you saying conspiracy theories cannot possibly be true? That the powerful do not conspire? It is all too easy when a chain of command is followed. The Dutch Government has already admitted it was NATO telling them what to do. You can be sure it was the same throughout the West.

As for the other points in this quote, you are quite simply wrong. Numerous independent scientists have confirmed bad batches. Look at the Danish and Swedish studies for one thing, or the findings of Spanish scientists La Quinta Columnas.



It was implemented by the Tories, yes, and I wouldn't disagree with any criticism of them. I do not think Donald Trump can be much blamed, as the first one was authorised just after he left office. He also never fearmongered about the virus, nor would he have mandated them in any way. The "only" true mandate in the UK was for care workers, yes, but that alone was one mandate too many, and they would have kept going if the NHS workers hadn't stood up to them.

Hence my concern about Government overreach. It's happened recently, and we must remain vigilant.



Fair enough, that was my weakest point. At the end of the day, authority is authority. Generally speaking, though, right-wingers tend to prefer Small Government, and left-wingers prefer Big Government. Thus, left-wingers tend to want to put themselves into a position where they have to trust the Government more.

1) You said lethal batches, your links are studies showing differing levels of adverse incidents based on batch numbers of the same drug, the study abstract doesn’t mention deaths. It’s not unheard of for bad batches to occur in all medicines, i work in healthcare and we get recalls of batches of all drugs and when we report an Adverse incident we send the batch number to the MHRA. That’s not a lethal batch, it’s differing incident rates usually indicative of a manufacturing issue rather than an issue with the drug itself. If anything it proves the vaccine itself is likely fine, but that there was a manufacturing issue rather than anything inherently wrong with the vaccine.

2) Donald Trump suggested injecting people with bleach, he was desperate for the pandemic to be ignored because he was impacted politically, he underplayed its significance and millions of people died because of his inaction. Also the democrats are not left wing.

3) A conspiracy theory is one where no evidence backs up the conspiracy theory, conspiracies can and do occur but they stop being a conspiracy theory once there is evidence to back them up.

4) Hitler was right wing, Stalin was left wing, your economic outlook does not indicate your authoritarian tendencies. Left wingers believe the government should have a big stake in things like infrastructure education and health, far left has full government control (communism), far right is basically government only controls police and military and private enterprise manages everything else. Both left and right have people who are more or less authoritarian (back to Hitler and Stalin).

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Out of curiosity, why are 15 minute cities so contentious?

I cannot believe I'm giving air to this.

The 15 minute city conspiracy theory is that you will not be able to travel more than 15 minutes from your home. Car travel will be banned, you will be concentrated and contained to your 15 minute city and that will be it.

Needless to say it's utter rubbish.

It is based on a misunderstanding, either willing or inadvertent, on the principles of good urban design.