UK Politics General Discussion

[Dobba]

The only things to look forward to with this Enoch Powell fantasist running the country are the excuses that'll come out for why people should be voting for him again at the next election.

 

[Dave]

The only things to look forward to with this Enoch Powell fantasist running the country are the excuses that'll come out for why people should be voting for him again at the next election.

It worries me that you under estimate the rhetoric of Enoch Powell.

I’m intermittently but regularly unimpressed with this government but today’s announcement is nowhere near the rhetoric of Powell, it doesn’t even come close to his closest acolyte in Farage….

still waiting the full details to be published but to my eyes they have done a big number on economic migration to satisfy the majority of people but haven’t made any real change to asylum (either positive or negative).

Genuinely at the moment (caveat being the full white paper hasn’t been scrutinised) the only big problem with what has been announced is the ending of visa’s for care workers.

 

[Dobba]

It worries me that you under estimate the rhetoric of Enoch Powell.

I’m intermittently but regularly unimpressed with this government but today’s announcement is nowhere near the rhetoric of Powell, it doesn’t even come close to his closest acolyte in Farage….

still waiting the full details to be published but to my eyes they have done a big number on economic migration to satisfy the majority of people but haven’t made any real change to asylum (either positive or negative).

Genuinely at the moment (caveat being the full white paper hasn’t been scrutinised) the only big problem with what has been announced is the ending of visa’s for care workers.

The only migrants in this country Enoch Powell seemed to have any time for were those working in health. Starmer can't even pretend to like having them in the country.

Island of strangers indeed.

 

[Dave]

The only migrants in this country Enoch Powell seemed to have any time for were those working in health. Starmer can't even pretend to like having them in the country.

Island of strangers indeed.

Yeah you clearly spend your time in some social media bubble that pushes an agenda because you responded with a soundbite not a fact.

What quotable distinct policy of Enoch Powell is the current government implementing?

 

[D4n]

I must be one of the few people that has been impressed with Starmer's handling of the government so far.

He has appeared like an adult on the world stage. Domestically he has taken some Tory-lite decisions but, again, is a vast improvement on them purely because he acts like an adult. After Liz Truss and Boris Johnson it's just nice to have somebody competent in charge again.

It reminds me of the Cameron-Clegg coalition at present. That period actually wasn't too bad.

Critics of the government either expected too much too soon (many of these have now defected to Reform, a worrying trend) due to a lack of understanding of the complexities of government or they expected lots of politically unpopular socialist policies. I think that it's sensible to avoid that given the threat of Reform. I liked Corbyn but he lost heavily for a reason.

On both the domestic and the world stage, Starmer often looks like the only adult in the room. It's a shame that more people don't see that.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

What quotable distinct policy of Enoch Powell is the current government implementing?

They aren't. The rhetoric and sound bite are quite the pastiche, however, and are shocking optics for a human rights lawyer elected on a ticket of positive change.

These are things that ought to be considered, when taking stock of the present situation.

 

[Dobba]

Yeah you clearly spend your time in some social media bubble that pushes an agenda because you responded with a soundbite not a fact.

What quotable distinct policy of Enoch Powell is the current government implementing?

You want me to name the policies of someone who was never leader of a political party?

Sure.

It reminds me of the Cameron-Clegg coalition at present. That period actually wasn't too bad.

Austerity - "wasn't too bad"

 

[Dave]

You want me to name the policies of someone who was never leader of a political party?

Sure.

You are associating one person with another, I think you should provide examples of how they align.

Sure.

And as for @GooseOnTheLoose comment which I neglected to click the quote button. The rhetoric is curious for certain but it is not pastiche of Powell, the only part that comes close is the increase English language competency requirement as he was obsessed with (commonwealth) immigration not integrating.

The policy announced is 50% bad policy forced by politics and 50% probably ok policy (stopping companies using immigrant labour instead of investing in available workforce for example) but won’t actually reduce immigration numbers so won’t stop Farage.

 

[Dobba]

You are associating one person with another, I think you should provide examples of how they align.

Sure.

And as for @GooseOnTheLoose comment which I neglected to click the quote button. The rhetoric is curious for certain but it is not pastiche of Powell, the only part that comes close is the increase English language competency requirement as he was obsessed with (commonwealth) immigration not integrating.

The policy announced is 50% bad policy forced by politics and 50% probably ok policy (stopping companies using immigrant labour instead of investing in available workforce for example) but won’t actually reduce immigration numbers so won’t stop Farage.

I'm not associating one with the other, Starmer is by parroting part of his most famous speech (and quite possibly the most racist rant a British politician has given in living memory) almost verbatim.

 

[Matt.GC]

I must be one of the few people that has been impressed with Starmer's handling of the government so far.

He has appeared like an adult on the world stage. Domestically he has taken some Tory-lite decisions but, again, is a vast improvement on them purely because he acts like an adult. After Liz Truss and Boris Johnson it's just nice to have somebody competent in charge again.

It reminds me of the Cameron-Clegg coalition at present. That period actually wasn't too bad.

Critics of the government either expected too much too soon (many of these have now defected to Reform, a worrying trend) due to a lack of understanding of the complexities of government or they expected lots of politically unpopular socialist policies. I think that it's sensible to avoid that given the threat of Reform. I liked Corbyn but he lost heavily for a reason.

On both the domestic and the world stage, Starmer often looks like the only adult in the room. It's a shame that more people don't see that.

I can't agree that the coalition years weren't too bad. That failed strategy is a key baseline for the situation we now found ourselves in. But I can agree that those times looked like a golden era compared to everything that has occured since, once those lot were left on their own.

Clegg deserved to pay the price for his treachery, but all it did was hand the keys to a party that wasn't anywhere near fit to hold such high office.

Theres a lot to be critical about with this current government. They really are bad at politics. But the expectation on them is absurd. It's like people want to believe the lies of Reform. That they can have their cake and eat it. All we have to do is send our non-existent Navy out to send a load of boats back to France and leave the ECHR and everything will be rosy again.

The country is a laughing stock, but not nearly as much as it was a year ago and beyond. People are quick to criticise, but I note from this thread that it's mostly just finger pointing whilst offering either no solutions whatsoever, or parroting insane Reform stuff.

I note what @Dave said earlier though reference how no one seems to be looking at the Lib Dems. Whilst the Tories are sat on the lowest amount of MP's they've ever had in their modern history and still crumbling away, the focus is on Reform and how they're hoovering up the crazed right wingers, whilst stealing swaths of the old labour heartlands while they're at it. Meanwhile, the Lib Dems have never been so successful, and are building a substantial base of centrist Labour and Tory voters.

Reform now have to show how they are grown ups with their new power. Labour will likely focus on straddling the line between trying to see them off whilst not interrupting them destroying the only real opposition they have.

Despite Ed Davey bungie jumping and falling off of paddle boards, the established media, social media, Starmer, Baddenoch, and Farage can't see the thief in the night eating away at all of them.

 

[BarryZola]

To deal with illegal immigration the first part of policy should be that if you arrive in this country illegally (via dinghy, back of lorry etc) then you will NEVER be granted asylum, leave to stay or be given citizenship in any way, shape or form. Have some respect for the country you're trying to get to help you. We'll agree to take our fair share of people who have fled their country through danger to life etc, but we'll have means of processing from outside the country. Change the laws in parliament over the space of a week if necessary. It can be done, we're not beholden to Europe anymore.

If you arrive illegally and found, then you'll be given secure accommodation until you can be sent back to where you've come from. If you've forgotten where you came from and lost your passport at sea, you can stay in the secure accommodation until you remember (you might fill them up at first, but when the message gets out that Britain is not a soft touch they'll become emptier and emptier and they can be repurposed to open prisons etc for our lot).

It's a big issue that will not go away in politics until it's sorted. It needs a radical solution as if you look at some of the daily numbers of illegal arrivals it's ridiculous. The solution is to get the message out that it's not worth landing here illegally as it won't work out well for you.

There's the solution, but we've gone too soft to implement it and now people with money and influence in this country have got used to the money they're getting from housing these people in hotels so there's your other problem.

 

[Ash]

The British people have voted for lower immigration numbers, both legal and irregular for almost 20 years.

Up until around 97/98 the UK had never had a net migration number greater then 100k in modern history.

We have recently been at over 300k. The pace of change was lunacy in the extreme.

Combine this with many parts of the UK experiencing decreasing living standards since the 80s and this accelerating again since 2008. Particularly in post industrial/left behind areas such as my home city of Stoke On Trent.

Add to this the recent chaos of tens of thousands of people floating across the channel and ending up in hotels around the country in a perceived un-stoppable manner. It can’t go on.

People have asked, democratically, at the ballot box for this to be stopped and as a minimum controlled. And they are perfectly right to do so. The more they’ve been ignored the reaction has been once, combine this with the problems mentioned above (and i don’t believe they’re directly related) and you have a dangerous mix.

What Labour have announced today in my mind as a socially conservative, economically left voter (strong military, pro nationalisation, pro monarchy) seems perfectly inline with what they’ve said previously and recently and what people want.

Business have not and do not invest enough in their own companies (training/apprentices), how much of that is by design or ownership models remains to be seen but it needs to change. We have a huge increase in economically inactive people that also needs to change.

Migration is too high. Any reasonable planning in terms of school places, doctors appointments, houses etc have not supported and cannot support this influx. Migration should be a reasonably calculable number, based on a myriad of factors, taking most of the emotion out of it.

Large parts of this country do feel like living with strangers. And we’ve built our country this way. Segregated communities not only based on religion, but also based on wealth. Urban vs rural. North vs south.

And this has started with schools.

We can’t have communities that don’t feel British, don’t take part in British culture, have no interest in integration at all. I see it with my own eyes daily,
I’ve felt it with some voluntary work I’ve done and also 2nd hand from friends and relatives who deal with minority communities.

It’s huge problem, I hate it and don’t want it to carry on as it won’t end well. All sides need to contribute to society, at the moment it’s not working and it’s dangerous. As my city was once the jewel in the crown in the BNP, has experienced many riots including last summer, was classified as the capital of Brexit and had the first Brexit MP candidate (failed) I’ve seen all of this first hand over my lifetime. And I really struggle with even pretending to listen to voices who haven’t seen it, it’s pointless. (And yes i do read the guardian)

Farage isn’t the cause of all this, he’s the symptom. Of a broken country, lacking a vision of the future and any ideological or real concept of how to improve peoples standard of living. Just platitudes and blame. I worry the excuses are running out and as we get more unequal, as AI takes hold and as we give ourselves less and less options to do something different. Our problems will get bigger and bigger.