World Cup 2018

[Martin]

We were in literally the biggest match in club football a month ago? Hardly the same as Forest still thinking they matter from the bottom of the Championship.

Can't have it both ways, England was united in hoping we lost, were happy we did, and said we were arrogant and celebrated too early, so we hoped England lost, are happy they did, and enjoy the hubris coming crashing down. Football is 50% schadenfreude.

Different sports, different circumstances, and nobody cares about those sports anyway. They don't have the cultural importance or the tribalism or politics. Some home counties rugby fan cheering on the Lions doesn't mean anything because the sport is more centred around that competition and there's no reason why they wouldn't. A football fan from Merseyside has good reason not to care about England for reasons that don't stop at club level.

I'm 80% apathy but 20% goes beyond that, but I don't want to go down that road. I'll just continue to support the team my community built and continue to be confused as to why it upsets England fans so much that we're not bothered.

 

[Rob]

Yet you won nothing and finished fourth in the league. Incidently I did want Liverpool to win the Champions League Final.

I don't mind Liverpool as a football club at all but will never understand why so many of their fans think that they are so special.

Clearly the city did not care about the match though:

 

[Martin]

Incidently I did want Liverpool to win the Champions League Final.

Why?

We're no more arrogant than United fans, we think we're special because of our history, our atmosphere (once upon a time), our impact on the sport, our ethos (sold out). Anything else is just a reaction to how we're treated.

There was the fan park by the graces, not going to say they were all only there for a laugh or all came from Cheshire, there are plenty who wanted England to do well. Should have heard the sirens heading there as soon as it ended. A lot of us don't for various reasons and I don't know why it upsets England fans.

If we did a Catalonia and had a non-FIFA affiliated Merseyside international team I would support that.

 

[Rob]

Why not? It was a football match between two teams. I would rather have seen the English based team (Liverpool) win than the Spanish based team (Real Madrid).

As I say, Liverpool are no more special than any other football club. And please don't bring up the atmosphere at Anfeild, which is woeful the majority of the time. Or is this only raised for when you play other 'special' teams?

Trent Alexander-Arnold, the only Liverpool born player in the squad, clearly just did not want to be there and hated being given the chance to represent his country:



Seems to me like there is a group of Liverpool fans who think they are bigger and better than the rest of this country and want to make themselves different. Fair enough, I just don't understand it but there clearly are some reasons for it.

Ah well, YNWT(P)L.

 

[Martin]

What difference did it make to Leicester who won? Fwiw I wanted Leicester to do well in the competition because they were upsetting the usual order, but I'd have done so wherever they were from, the notion of supporting the English clubs in Europe is much stranger to me than international football. I want my rivals to be miserable.

I've said myself right there the atmosphere has gone down the drain except big matches, all I was saying there was the atmosphere when it was/is good forms a distinct part of our identity.

I won't begrudge any footballer being happy to get called up, it's a great honour. But Gerrard took years off his club career by carrying on with England and I will always identify more with Jamie Carragher, who said he only turned up in 2006 cos they asked him, and said he wasn't at all bothered that he missed and knocked them out. His dad had a lot of fun there though...

 

[Benzin]

Gerrard's career ended as soon as Liverpool bottled that title, he was never the same after that...

To say that is because of internationals is blind bias...

I'm not one to care about the internationals, but this is the first squad in a while with only one player I want to punch in the face (Alli), so it's a step in the right direction...

 

[Rob]

What difference did it make to Leicester who won? Fwiw I wanted Leicester to do well in the competition because they were upsetting the usual order, but I'd have done so wherever they were from, the notion of supporting the English clubs in Europe is much stranger to me than international football. I want my rivals to be miserable.

Well Liverpool winning the Champions League would have been upsetting the usual order of Real Madrid doing so..! It would have made no difference to Leicester, but as I do not mind Liverpool as a football club it would have been good to see them win it.

 

[Martin]

Gerrard was frustrating at times that season, his legs were starting to go. Obviously what happened at the end of that season finished him off though. It's not England's fault he slipped, but there's a not unpopular view that if he retired from international football he could have carried on a season or two more at the top. Not that it would have made much difference in the end though, post slip his head was gone and post Suarez we were awful.

 

[Alastair]

England was united in hoping we lost, were happy we did, and said we were arrogant and celebrated too early, so we hoped England lost, are happy they did, and enjoy the hubris coming crashing down. Football is 50% schadenfreude.

That's just normal in football though? Why would you think everyone wants Liverpool to fail in particular? I'd say the majority of PL fans would want any opposition team that reaches the CL final to lose, it's just how it is. Liverpool are no different in that regard to anyone else, except perhaps in the respect that the majority of their supporters cannot stop harping on about the past and how they almost deserve to be European champions again. That may or may not worsen the general feeling around when Liverpool have a chance of winning anything, who knows?

 

[Martin]

I literally said that in response to the incredulity that many of us don't support England and enjoyed last night. Your first point is the same as mine.

And people do want us to lose more cos we're arrogant, and we like that.

 

[John]

To take the topic in a different, much nerdier, direction: one of my colleagues linked me to a site which has been tracking the chances of each team in every match in real time. The analysis considers various factors to estimate the chances for each team at the start of the match, then calculates how that changes as the match progresses. Group stage matches include the possibility of a draw, whilst knockout games only consider how likely each team is to progress.

The results from all matches played so far can be seen below, plus the starting chances for each team in the final and 3rd place play-off.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2018-world-cup-predictions/matches/

 

[Alsty]

I'm hoping one of my learned football friends can explain to me why it's England that play in the World Cup, rather than Great Britain?

 

[DiogoJ42]

I'm hoping one of my learned football friends can explain to me why it's England that play in the World Cup, rather than Great Britain?

Errrr.... Because it helps make people who fly England flags look racist?

 

[MattyH]

Because the English FA was set up for teams in England, and we don't want those crap Scottish and Welsh players ruining our team...

 

[Benzin]

I'm hoping one of my learned football friends can explain to me why it's England that play in the World Cup, rather than Great Britain?

Could ask the same of the rugby though...

It's down to the association and leagues, not helped by Swansea and Cardiff existing in the English structure mind...

 

[Ted]

Congratulations France! Felt a bit for Croatia but the French deserved it. Kane getting the Golden Boot is great to see!